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OFFICIAL CSAC Machida/Shogun scorecards=MMA WEEKLY link

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hippysmacker

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Here's a look at what all 3 judges thought. machiad vs shogun scorecards

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Post #1   10/26/09 3:05:16AM   

Aether

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blows me away that anyone could think round 1 went to Machida.

now compare those to these stats:

fightmetric stats

Round 1 and 4 are the only rounds that the judges had any disagreement on. Machida was outstruck by around 2:1 in both cases, and I think it was clear that Rua's shots were harder and causing more damage. How they could miss such a discrepancy is beyond me.

Last edited 10/26/09 4:44AM server time by Aether
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Post #2   10/26/09 4:41:18AM   

ryu99

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1. Shogun
2. Machida
3. Shogun
4. Shogun
5. Shogun

Shogun 49-46

Last edited 10/26/09 10:21AM server time by ryu99
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Post #3   10/26/09 10:18:05AM   

Mhunt1140

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I watched that fight four more times trying to see what the judges say and each time I came to the same conclusion, Shogun won. I even went as far as to have a friend who has never watched an mma fight in his life watch the fight and tell me who he think won. I kept the fight on mute and did not tell him who was the champion or who was the challenger so it was a purely unbiased opinion. As I expected, he also felt that Shogun won the fight.

I honestly have no idea how Shogun lost because, as it has already been mentioned, he outstruck Machida nearly 2 to 1 and inflicted much more damage.

Part of the scoring is based on effective striking, aggressiveness, and Octagon control. Let's recap, Shogun won the striking battle nearly 2 to 1 and arguably inflicted more damage, and he was attempting to take the fight to the ground at times and he dominated the clinch game with vicious knees and elbows. Finally he was stalking Machida for the majority of the fight, thus controlling the Octagon.

It's decisions like these that tarnish the UFC. The first one that comes to mind is Hamil and Bisping

Post #4   10/26/09 10:19:35AM   

SamPan

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Rd 2 and 3 were Machidas I thought. But they were debatable. The others were definitely Shoguns.

Post #5   10/26/09 11:48:56AM   

ryu99

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Posted by SamPan

Rd 2 and 3 were Machidas I thought. But they were debatable. The others were definitely Shoguns.



I can see that, but to give Machida 3 rounds is absurd.

Post #6   10/26/09 12:20:15PM   

bjj1605

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Posted by Aether

blows me away that anyone could think round 1 went to Machida.

now compare those to these stats:

fightmetric stats

Round 1 and 4 are the only rounds that the judges had any disagreement on. Machida was outstruck by around 2:1 in both cases, and I think it was clear that Rua's shots were harder and causing more damage. How they could miss such a discrepancy is beyond me.



Those stats seem to confirm what I thought initially. That was the only rounds Machida could have one were rounds one and three. Rnd 1 he may have been out struck 19-11 but 15 of those were leg kicks, which in the first round Machida was defending well and I felt did little damage (at least initially). Round two Rua out body kicked him but Machida did land some shots to the head and some body kicks of his own (in the judges defense). Round 3 Machida won every category other than leg kicks and had a big flurry at one point in the round. Round 4 both fighters were fairly inactive but Shogun threw and landed more (still considering the inactivity this may have been a hard round to score and could be given to the champ). Round 5 Machida kept his inactivity from the previous round while Shogun turned up the volume of hit strikes.

Now that is may synopsis based on the stats given here. I think it is important to notice that it sounds very different from the fight we all remember, and I believe that by these stats you could argue in favor of Machida winning the fight more easily than with out them. I contend that not only do stats in general not tell the whole story, I'm not sold on the accuracy of these stats in particular. What credentials do these guys have? I'm actually planning on watching this fight in slow-mo today and giving my own stat count.

Last edited 10/26/09 12:38PM server time by bjj1605
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Post #7   10/26/09 12:36:13PM   

submissionartist1

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You cant win a fight on leg kicks machida hit rua 2-5 times for every 1 strike and if you wanna impliment leg kicks as your main offense use it till the later rounds and try to finish dont try to outpoint a karate champion. this sport needs better informed fans....

some fans get lost in what Rogan says he looked like a tool at the end talking to the champ for 10 seconds then runnin to Rua to hug his nuts, and sounded like one that whole fight, the guys a Tae Kwon Do fighter and wow a slappin body kick to the left hand side of the body where ther are no organs to hurt, that only landed because thats machida open side any thai fighter will expose that, rogan should have looked up and seen the 5 knees or 3-5 punch combos that were lnded by machida

Rua made 1 dark red mark on machida from a toe kick machida lit up ruas whole body. that was a great fight but the right person won machida owned round 1 and rua round 4 rnd other then that judges card looked good pick up an officiating book or talk to a karate judge




Last edited 10/26/09 10:25PM server time by submissionartist1
Edit note/reason: didnt wanna say "you guys " ment some fans

Post #8   10/26/09 12:40:20PM   

chickmagnet

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I wasnt impressed by either fighter. I know Machida could have done far better than he did. And Shogun didnt really commit during the fight. He attacked Machida a couple times but Machida evaded every time. Shogun didnt land many hand strikes, mostly leg kicks. Machida landed like 2 good knees to the body and a couple flurries of punches. However I think this fight was closer than ppl think.

Post #9   10/26/09 1:05:12PM   

Edwards

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i had shogun 1,2,4 and 5 for and 3 being close,i jus still 2 days later cant believe what i witness,i thought i'd never see anything has bad as bisping/hamill but the judges seem to top that,worst dec in mma history.to rob a man of his dream is jus wrong and i wont say anymore because i dont want to get kick off the site.

Post #10   10/26/09 1:08:04PM   

Svartorm

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Leg kicks aren't scored as effective striking. Its a throwback to boxing judges who don't score punches to the arms. While it has an effect on fighting, they don't score them as they themselves aren't fight enders unless theres an injury.

Take away the leg kicks, and you have Machida landing clinch knees and punches far more often than Shogun. While I don't agree with the winner, according to the way fights are scored right now, its the correct way to go. Blame the system.

Oh, and to submissionartist1, your spleen is on the left side of your body and you can certainly hit it.

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Post #11   10/26/09 1:37:00PM   

Aether

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Maybe they don't score them as such, but leg kicks absolutely can be fight enders, even without injury. It's not uncommon to see cumulative leg kicks end a fight if they're thrown as the main attack, it's just that people rarely throw enough of them to do this and rarely commit with enough force to cause this kind of damage. Most fighters just throw them to create openings for punches or head kicks.

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Post #12   10/26/09 2:36:01PM   

george112

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i havent seen the fight yet.but plan on seeing it in a minute.

with that being said.the way the fight went sounds like rua just throwing leg kicks the whole time.

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Post #13   10/26/09 2:53:30PM   

CwB

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Posted by submissionartist1


you guys get lost in what Rogan says he looked like a tool at the end talking to the champ for 10 seconds then runnin to Rua to hug his nuts, and sounded like one that whole fight, the guys a Tae Kwon Do fighter and wow a slappin body kick to the left hand side of the body where ther are no organs to hurt, that only landed because thats machida open side any thai fighter will expose that, rogan should have looked up and seen the 5 knees or 3-5 punch combos that were lnded by machida






Its funny everyone keeps saying Rogans comments blinded our decision. Just listen to the crowd for an unbiased Decision. They were chanting machida early on and still booed like crazy at the UD. (and if you dont know, there is no commentating at live events)

Yes machida would rush and land 4-5 punches, but i saw 90% of those punches land on shoguns arms (which were blocking his face). Watch the flurry at the end of round three, Machida did not land one clean shot, but he did get hit with a small left hook and a big right.

This isnt Karate, its mma which uses a completely different scoring systems... and i felt Rua was more aggresive, landed more effective strikes, had octagon control, and there wasnt any grappling but the clinch game i would give to RUA.

I thought machidas punches were mostly ineffective and always led to a hard counter by RUA

I thought that Rua stalked Lyoto majority of the fight (taking the center of the ring)

I thought that machida did better in the clinch (when the clinch happened away from the cage) but Rua almost always spun lyoto's back against the cage and then landed tons of knees, while pinning and controlling lyoto against the cage. (and every time they broke from the clinch Shogun landed a shot)

Every mma site i have read after the fight thought shogun won. 90% of us on here thought shogun won. Even the Las Vegas Sunday news paper said "Machida fights a losing battle, but wins the decision"

Dont tell us we dont know anything, when you are in the minority here. We all have opinions but dont attack mine for not agreeing with you.

Edit: added some stuff

Last edited 10/26/09 3:05PM server time by cwb
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Post #14   10/26/09 2:53:44PM   

Aether

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yeah, I'm sure quite a few of us also watched the fight in a loud crowded bar where commentating was almost completely inaudible. I know I did. The commentating excuse is kind of ridiculous given the number of people who agree on this.

Post #15   10/26/09 3:18:55PM   
 
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