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Shogun v. Machida: THE thread

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RyanC

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If that is the way the judges think then fighters better start thinking they need to finish EVERY fight. I would not want a win/loss in the hands of that man.

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Post #16   10/25/09 12:46:06PM   

nickcuc547

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Posted by RyanC

If that is the way the judges think then fighters better start thinking they need to finish EVERY fight. I would not want a win/loss in the hands of that man.



I'm going to be honest, shogun got robbed and while watching the fight I had a feeling that's exactly what was going to happen, and it did, it just left such a sour taste in my mouth because that's how bad the judging has been lately, that you aren't even surprised anymore when it happens.

Post #17   10/25/09 1:02:19PM   

mizike

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YEah anyone who thinks the commentary influenced anyone, or the judges were right or machida did anything to shogun to win that fight does not no MMA. Shogun did what no one has been able to do to machida. He didnt just have brutal leg kicks to machidas legs he also had brutal leg kicks to the mid section that bruiesed machida all up, and landed the only hard punch to the face of the fight. Machida could never get his game plan going, shogun hit harder, was quicker did the most damage in the clinch with knees and elbow shots coming out of the clinch and overall came out with out a scratch from machida, I gave shogun all 5 rounds, maybe a close loss in rnd 3 to machida, worst cast shogun wins 4 to 1, and every judge, fight forum, and fight stat out there shows RUA winning the fight except for the real judges, what the hell. it was complete robbery end of story, Machida knows he didnt win by his own comments, and dana white said he won, not to mention the boos from the entire crowd that was there. complete bull **** worst decision in MMA history.

Last edited 10/25/09 1:27PM server time by mizike
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Post #18   10/25/09 1:25:20PM   

jae_1833

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Well the rematch will be great, and I think this will help get the judging under wraps. The process for becoming a judge obviously doesnt work....there is at least one very poorly judged fight every single UFC event. There is almost always one judge every fight that makes a lot of people scratch their heads. It's time to have something major change, hopefully MMA takes a look at other sports (NOT BOXING!) and can pull some good ideas from outside resources. It's time for an overhaul.


They could also change that rule about knees to grounded opponents while they are at it!

Post #19   10/25/09 1:32:48PM   

sbulldavid

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I saw Shogun win two rounds, this I'm certain. I can make an argument for Machida winning one round. Those first two rounds that were awarded to Machida, should have been 10-10 rounds at best for Machida , IMO 10-9 for Shogun. This was a tragedy, we had two rounds that were too close to give to Rua so the judges instead of a 10-10 round, give Machida champion bias based on past history, and all the hype of never losing a round in the UFC. If somebody is to blame for this it's the UFC for promoting Lyoto as never losing a round in the UFC, Well executed game plan, wrong time to be fighting the Machida hype machine. I hope everybody that was hating on Shogun, show a little respect now.

Post #20   10/25/09 1:38:14PM   

nippletits

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I dont know guys. I wrote shogun off as if he was going to get karate chop KO-ed in the first two rounds. after round one I was all about shogun. personally, I had him winning 4 out of 5, MAYBE 3 out 5 but either way I had him ahead.

also, I dont think Joe Rogan influences many of us about our thoughts on the fighters. All announcers have favs and they cant always get away from showing it. Hell, my most enjoyable fight was the one where the mics got turned off for the first 2 rounds of some prelim. It lets you actually watch the fight, rather than listen to incoherent babble. I usually just try to tune the announcers out anyway.

and the scores that were posted earlier, i dont know who did, but these,

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua

make me even more upset.

all i am saying is that i am really unhappy with the outcome, and that i wonder why i pay to watch these fights if the outcome makes me feel that way.


Last edited 10/25/09 2:33PM server time by nippletits
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Post #21   10/25/09 2:29:02PM   

Franklinfan47

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Posted by august111871
Overall I dont want to watch UFC anymore because this is terrible and there shouldnt be rematch because UFC possibly ruined Shoguns carrier in the UFC and because the judging will probably be BS again if they fight



THE UFC DOES NOT PICK THE JUDGES, THE CSAC (or NSAC, etc) DOES. People really need to get this through their heads. The ufc makes the fights, thats all. This all said, people need to take this fight with a grain of salt.

Do I think shogun was robbed? Yes. I feel really bad for him. He figured out the unknowable fighter and beat him.

Is this a problem that mma needs to fix? Yes.

Is this a new problem? No. Just watch the Easton vs Beebe fight a few weeks back. Very similar situation, but no one was demanding blood for that one (though it may be overturned after an appeal, dont know if that will happen here though).

Do I think it will be fixed? The way things are going, they have to fix the judging situation.

Will there be an immediate rematch? It certainly looks like it the way dana and everyone has been talking.

So relax. Statements such as "im not watching the ufc anymore" are uncalled for imo, I think people are overeacting. But if you dont wanna watch, then dont. If Shogun can accept the situation with honour and class, I dont see why the rest of us cant.

Post #22   10/25/09 2:30:26PM   

nickcuc547

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Posted by sbulldavid

This was a tragedy, we had two rounds that were too close to give to Rua so the judges instead of a 10-10 round, give Machida champion bias based on past history, and all the hype of never losing a round in the UFC. If somebody is to blame for this it's the UFC for promoting Lyoto as never losing a round in the UFC, Well executed game plan, wrong time to be fighting the Machida hype machine.



That's ridiculous, I guarantee you that wasn't what the judges were thinking or that persuaded them at all; you're dreaming if you think that. The judges just made a bad decision, all three of them, nothing to do with prefight hype.

Post #23   10/25/09 2:54:54PM   

tmas

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the fight went pretty much how i expected it to go. I picked Machida by Un Dec.


With that being said, me and a group of friends were all watching and routing for Machida, at the end of the first round i said so close but Shogun wins rd 1.
@end of 2nd i said close again but i gotta give it to Shogun. 3rd rnd i said finally Machida shows up he won that round. 4, and 5 were very close i gave shogun both, but round 5 i think is the one i thought Machida may have stole, i said at the end of one of them he just stole this round.

so it was either 3v2 or 4v1 ShoGun......however i was sitting there saying this fight could have went either way cause neither of them did enough to win, AND when your are the champ you get the luxury of the other guy has to without a doubt beat you.....so i predicted that i thought ShoGun won, but Machida would take the decision.....all my friends were like your nuts Machida lost and i was like no i agree but watch he is getting his hand raised...and he did.

All in all we are all pretty disappointed that ShoGun was robbed and our guy Machida didnt do well at all...


Again though im not suprised by the decision it was just way to close and in a close Tie like fight....goes to the champ.

Post #24   10/25/09 3:17:24PM   

ry_dawg63

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well first off i would like to say what everyone else is saying, Shogun got robbed! i haven't seen even one person argue other wise! i mean i think this pretty much proves it
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now let's see what the people seating in the row behind(or two) the judges saw...

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i would love to see the actual fight strike stats.(if anyone can point me to where i could find those i would appreciate it) its my opinion that Shogun landed more kick's, more punches, more elbows, and they were probably even on the knees. i gave rounds 1,2,4, and 5 to Shogun. With Machida taking the third. Plus Shogun controlled the pace of the fight. he was constantly pressing. so octagon control was his as well. although i agree with everyone, and the scoring does sicken me, i wouldn't go as far to say i would never watch the UFC again. being a fan, and a fighter myself im already used to these types of bad decisions. thats why its so important to try not to leave it in the judges hands! that being said though when your in a five round fight and you feel your winning convincingly, with someone as dangerous as Machida i can understand playing it safe. i really don't regret picking Shogun though because in my heart i know he won that fight!

Post #25   10/25/09 3:34:30PM   

nbf

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I'm can't understand why Shogun was robbed in the UFC 104 title fight?!

He showed Machida doesn't have the tools to harm him.

He was a superior fighter in every aspect of the game and did what he wanted and planned for the fight at will.

Those judges should be fired imo.

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Post #26   10/25/09 3:36:35PM   

Ordep

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Posted by ry_dawg63

i would love to see the actual fight strike stats.(if anyone can point me to where i could find those i would appreciate it) its my opinion that Shogun landed more kick's, more punches, more elbows, and they were probably even on the knees.



Here....

Machida-Shogun numbers(Fightmetric)




Post #27   10/25/09 3:44:02PM   

ry_dawg63

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thanks Ordep. although thats does help me to see that it was a little closer then i had thought, i still feel like Shogun won. oh well. i guess i can just hope that UFC does the right thing and gives Shogun an automatic rematch. And then hope that the next time he finishes Machida! thanks again.

Post #28   10/25/09 4:40:23PM   

JackHammerXXX

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For one, this was an extremely close, technical fight. We saw an opponent of Lyoto's, stay composed, and not chase him over aggressively, and lose. Of all people, Shogun did this the best. Ortiz was similar, in that he stalked but never hurried or bit off more than he should, but Tito never had an offensive persona in that fight, besides the aggressor role. Thiago was a robot set on one thing, getting close, and when close ? Shogun brought the mentality of bringing the fight to Lyoto, but in the way that forced Machida to be offensive. Lyoto, to me, is an overall passive, yet precise, counter fighter. Shogun, brought kicks and angles that the Dragon will have to be aware of in the imminent rematch. I was impressed by Rua's cardio, of all, as well as, his control. In almost every round it seemed that Mauricio wanted to run after, even chase Machida, but instead, stopped, breathed and resumed the strategy he had throughout the fight. Great performance.

Now, what is becoming quite apparent, is that Machida's image as a fighter, has led to backlashes before. But it is also the point of praise. The man that can't be touched. So,in turn, we are seeking, almost desperately, for a sign of human, and mortality as a mma fighter. We got that last night. But we had that with the Ortiz fight. Lyoto will win fights, rounds,etc. with his style of fighting period. Especially when we are not given the sight(s) of him hurt, or in danger. Shogun had great leg, and body kicks, in and out of exchanges that did damage to Dragon, but so did Lyoto. Machida did what he does, and all of a sudden, it's not enough again?

Either everyone had Rua counted out of this fight, and judging by the threads coming into the fight, Machida TKO in the 2nd or 3rd round, was the consensus pick. Since we didn't get that, are we subjected to believe that Rua won? I personally think it was a fight that could've gone both ways. 3 rounds to 2 for either fighter would've sufficed.

A rematch will be great, and honestly, would work well with the current contender status, esp. with Rampage out the loop. But I think everyone can agree, at least we didn't see a mixed decision of 49 47 Machida, or a split. We got 48-47 Machida. 3 times.And truthfully, as close as the first three rounds were, I am not repulsed. Lyoto did what he has done, and successfully at that. Are people mad now that Machida isn't as aggressive or set to finish the opponent? This is what he was before, and will remain.

Post #29   10/25/09 4:50:35PM   

shogunassassin

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Not only a rematch,
I want that fight declared a No Contest.

Lets be frank here;
EVERYONE knows Shogun won.
Machida knows, The fans know, Dana White knows.

UFC have to seriously sit down with those judges and watch the fight again and sort this mess out. Because it really damages the integrity of the sport.

I have never seen such a poor decision in MMA before, or any sport I can remember. It was shocking.

The least they could do would be to declare it a no contest.

Post #30   10/25/09 5:11:38PM   
 
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