Shogun v. Machida: THE thread |
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MODulation
Career record: 710-410
Season: 35-15 (#347)
Location: Portland via Iowa
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I am starting this omnithread because it seems the Shogun v. Machida fight and rematch will be a hot topic for a while. In the interest of not cluttering the forums, please keep all discussion in this thread.
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Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.
#3 points UFC 95
#3 points WEC 43
#8 points Sengoku 5
#10 points Sengoku 12
#10 points EXC: Heat
#13 wagers WEC 51
#15 wagers WEC 47
#15 points Secondary League Season 7
#16 wagers Shark Fights
#18 wagers UFN: 20
#20 wagers 2nd League Season 8
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Post #1 10/25/09 8:57:29AM
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MODulation
Career record: 710-410
Season: 35-15 (#347)
Location: Portland via Iowa
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For what it is worth, here is the Machida v. Shogun fightmetric report.
To summarize, it shows that it was a close bout with Machida winning the 2nd rnd and the third too close to call. Fight metric scored the fight 49-47 for Shogun.
link
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Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.
#3 points UFC 95
#3 points WEC 43
#8 points Sengoku 5
#10 points Sengoku 12
#10 points EXC: Heat
#13 wagers WEC 51
#15 wagers WEC 47
#15 points Secondary League Season 7
#16 wagers Shark Fights
#18 wagers UFN: 20
#20 wagers 2nd League Season 8
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Post #2 10/25/09 9:00:37AM
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MiniMan
Standup Guy
Career record: 38-27
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: SOUTH AUSTRALIA
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Well after looking at Fight Metrics, I can now clearly see why Machida won a UD.
WELCOME TO THE MACHIDA ERROR
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Post #3 10/25/09 9:06:24AM
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PABLOMAFIOSO
In Full Mount
Career record: 642-415
Season: 36-14 (#192)
Location: England
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Yeah, I just want to add my part and I agree with anyone sane that was watching that fight. Shogun won the fight 
I don't know what happened with the judges but they got it wrong, even Machida knew he lost that fight. I had been saying for a while that if Shogun turned it on he could take this. He did and got screwed by BS "judging". These clowns should be ashamed.
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Post #4 10/25/09 9:21:26AM
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MODulation
Career record: 710-410
Season: 35-15 (#347)
Location: Portland via Iowa
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For those that want to rewatch the fight without commentary... go herelink
_______________________________________
Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.
#3 points UFC 95
#3 points WEC 43
#8 points Sengoku 5
#10 points Sengoku 12
#10 points EXC: Heat
#13 wagers WEC 51
#15 wagers WEC 47
#15 points Secondary League Season 7
#16 wagers Shark Fights
#18 wagers UFN: 20
#20 wagers 2nd League Season 8
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Post #5 10/25/09 10:58:15AM
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NatedawgThaM
MMA Sensei
Career record: 343-224
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: New Providence, Pa
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I thought Shogun won that fight 3 rounds to 2. He was the aggressor and he definitely did more damage. Thats why I was pretty shocked his got the nod. Machida really didn't do nothing but a lil breif flurry every once in awhile and Shogun made him pay almost everytime with those lethal kicks. Beautiful fight by Shogun, I loved this fight! Great ass tactical battle. Loved every minute of it because it kept me on the edge of my seat.
But it was a close fight so I'm not upset at all Shogun loss, a game is a game cuz I picked Shogun to win but I loved the fight and it was really close so I'm not complaining plus their gonna rematch and I love it. Both guys just need to bring the fight to each other more IMO. I know they have a great amount of respect for each other but the one way your sure to win rounds is if your the aggressor and throwing often. I think if Shogun would have been a little more aggressive especially in those last 2 rounds he definitely could have won those rounds decisively. I had Shogun winning the 2nd and last 2 rounds. And Machida's leg was screwed during those rounds, I think if Shogun really wanted too he could have went a little more crazier and could have chased Machida down and put him in trouble.
Great fight. Close call. Not complaining. Can't wait for the rematch!!!
Last edited 10/25/09 11:16AM by Natedawgtham
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #6 10/25/09 11:14:30AM
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Banned for cheating
Career record: 309-149
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: south shields
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My main worry with Shogun for this fight was that hed gas and Machida would take it from there. But he still looked ready to go at the end of the fight, and we did see alot of clinching, takedown attempts and constant striking, so it wasnt like he coasted through reserving his energy.
However, Machida is probably in a gym somewhere right now training to get out of the way of those huge kicks Shogun can throw, and im sure its going to be a big part of his gameplan to avoid them. When he was coming forward and throwing punches, he was getting the better of the exchanges, but hed always get caught on the way out with a kick, so that might not be the best idea even though it could potentially win him the fight.
Anyways, ill be picking Shogun UD. I wanted to pick him this time but I convinced myself to take the safe pick. Personally, Id rather see him fight somebody like Thiago Silva or Jardine, becouse if the old Shogun is really back, I want to UFC fans to see just how devastating he can be when he doesnt need to be as carefull.
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Post #7 10/25/09 11:16:13AM
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MODulation
Career record: 710-410
Season: 35-15 (#347)
Location: Portland via Iowa
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Anybody else find it ironic that after years of mma moving away from the traditional martial arts scene the new hot rivalry is between two guys named Shogun and Dragon?
_______________________________________
Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.
#3 points UFC 95
#3 points WEC 43
#8 points Sengoku 5
#10 points Sengoku 12
#10 points EXC: Heat
#13 wagers WEC 51
#15 wagers WEC 47
#15 points Secondary League Season 7
#16 wagers Shark Fights
#18 wagers UFN: 20
#20 wagers 2nd League Season 8
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Post #8 10/25/09 11:21:47AM
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august111871
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 6-16
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Davison, MI
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What is MMA coming 2? Judges who are so stuck up on someone that they have to ruin it for someone else who really won he fight?
First of all thee is no reason for a rematch if the judging is going to be so biased. Shogun easily won 3-4 of the five rounds. The only round I can see them giving to machida is the third. Sorry to say this but if u think machida won you are a fool.
Overall I dont want to watch UFC anymore because this is terrible and there shouldnt be rematch because UFC possibly ruined Shoguns carrier in the UFC and because the judging will probably be BS again if they fight
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Post #9 10/25/09 11:23:00AM
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MODulation
Career record: 710-410
Season: 35-15 (#347)
Location: Portland via Iowa
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Overall I dont want to watch UFC anymore because this is terrible and there shouldnt be rematch because UFC possibly ruined Shoguns carrier in the UFC
If you don't want to watch, don't watch.
And this fight has had the exact opposite effect of ruining Shogun's "carrier". He is going to be bigger now than he ever was. He is now the fighter that really beat Machida. He definitely expanded his fanbase beyond his normal PRIDE fans.
Last edited 10/25/09 11:30AM by ncordless
Edit note/reason: n/a
_______________________________________
Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.
#3 points UFC 95
#3 points WEC 43
#8 points Sengoku 5
#10 points Sengoku 12
#10 points EXC: Heat
#13 wagers WEC 51
#15 wagers WEC 47
#15 points Secondary League Season 7
#16 wagers Shark Fights
#18 wagers UFN: 20
#20 wagers 2nd League Season 8
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Post #10 10/25/09 11:29:05AM
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warglory
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 448-302
Season: 21-20 (#2163)
Location: Portland, ME
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I think people need to really start rationalizing this fight a bit more before they start going off on tangents. The outrage on this board has been a bit overwhelming, and while I felt the same thing last night, I internalized it overnight before posting.
Let's look at the details of the fight:
- Shogun clearly had the upper hand with the kicks, but the VAST majority of his kicks were landed as counter kicks. Shogun landed kicks to Machida's back leg while Machida nailed Shogun in the midsection. The damn biased commentating though COMPLETELY ignored the fact that Machida landed almost every kick he threw even if it was followed with a response from Shogun. This really pissed me off because Machida was being very accurate with his kicks.
- Next, is the clinch. The clinch, as with any former chute box fighter is their main weapon, and Shogun got OUTCLASSED by Machida EVERY time a clinch happened. In fact, it was almost always Shogun that broke out of the clinch because Machida was dominating. Once again, the commentators spoke nothing of this fact. Yes, Shogun delivered the goods with a nice kick or a punch once the clinch broke, but still, the clinch was all Machida. (EDIT: Except against the cage, those were definitely in Shogun's favor with the knees to the legs)
- Takedowns. There were none (maybe one? I don't recall right now), despite Shogun trying multiple times. Machida stuffed every takedown and forced Shogun to reevaluate his attacks.
- The exchanges. Whether they were inside or against the cage, Machida clearly had the upper hand in almost every exchange that happened. Shogun could not handle Machida's hands.
However, with all of that said, I am NOT overlooking Shogun's absolute brutal kicks definitely being the highlight of the fight. I personally think he did enough to take the fight, but looking back, it shouldn't be a shocker that he lost. It should be a convincing victory in order to dethrone a champ, and Shogun realistically was not convincing enough to say he was dominant enough to take a title. This same scenario happened with Rampage vs Griffin, yet if you compare the fights, Griffin was much more effective in putting on a convincing performance in order to seal the deal, which I happened to agree with.
I think people are so up in arms about this, because Shogun clearly won the last round and was really turning up the heat in the 4th. He was the fresher fighter at the end and was really dominating. But you can't excuse the other rounds, this isn't Japan people, its cumulative. So let's calm down and watch the match again without Goldie and Rogan hanging off of Shogun's nuts the entire fight.
Last edited 10/25/09 11:37AM by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #11 10/25/09 11:32:09AM
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nickcuc547
BANNED
Career record: 384-223
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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I thought shogun got jobbed, but not as badly as everybody here is making it out to be. Yes the fight put a sour taste in my mouth afterwards but it was pretty close. I had shogun taking rounds 1, 4 and 5 while machida won 2 and 3 imo. However, the first three rounds were razor thin and could have gone either way. I thought shogun was the aggressor, landed the hardest shots, but I have to agree with some responses about the biased commentating, some of machida's shots were ignored, he landed some big kicks and punches while rogan would get a hard on over shogun's countershots; it was like griffin vs. rampage all over again. I guess the old saying holds true here, to dethrone the champ you have to be the clear cut winner and really take his belt away from him; unless your name is Forrest Griffin of course.
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Post #12 10/25/09 12:04:21PM
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1daveufc
Standup Guy
Career record: 444-303
Season: 33-17 (#1148)
Location: newcastle.england
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Will someone call the cops cause shogun just been robed its a joke with these judges.Do the UFC pick or does someone else pick the judges if so a bet these judges dont get picked again.Its a real shame when someone trains that hard and well to get in shape for the fight of there life and wins just for it to be taken away from them like this it makes me sick.Plus the cardio thing is out the window with shogun cause 42 heart beats a minute when resting is incredible thats how hard that guy worked for this fight.
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Post #13 10/25/09 12:18:36PM
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RyanC
MMA Sensei
Career record: 404-256
Season: 36-13 (#554)
Location: Hastings, MN
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I've never been so shocked when a decision was read. I almost thought I wasn't hearing it right. I'm just hoping Shogun can go out and beat him again.
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Post #14 10/25/09 12:39:55PM
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Ordep
MMA Sensei
Career record: 645-393
Season: 33-7 (#849)
Location: Athens, GA
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This article has some interesting yet, disturbing quotes from some judges. However, be a judge yourself for Yahoo! and Kevin Iole but what's interesting is the judges quotes...
Yahoo! Link
My main problem is this one...
One of the judges...
“It was a matter of each round being won on maybe one or two little things,” Hamilton said following the fight. “There was no sustained action by anybody in that fight. There were no combinations thrown. It was always one punch, one kick. So you look at it and say, ‘What was effective in that fight? What was effective in that round?’ Based on that, somebody wins the round.”
Those advocating a Rua victory point to the fact that Machida appeared to take far more damage in the bout. Rua’s kicks were tenderizing Machida’s leg and the welts on his face gave away, perhaps for the first time, what he does for a living.
Hamilton, though, said it’s hard to judge a fight on damage sustained in a bout like Machida-Rua.
“They’re assuming he’s hurt,” Hamilton said. “You don’t really know, though, do you?”
So basically this guy is saying NO ONE did anything, Machida took damage but you can't say he's hurt? So basically you kick a guy in a fight but he's not hurt those kicks doesn't count? But if none of the fighter did anything, who kicked Machida then? Herb Dean?
On simple math without rounds and performance I would say it was a tie in the elusiveness battle but Shogun won the aggressive one. If this was an accurate decision I will go back and watch the Starnes vs. Quarry replay to see if Kalib got robbed. Because for this judge avoiding being hit overcomes having little/No offense yourself and still wins you the fight.
Now let's see what the people seating in the row behind(or two) the judges saw...
(sent from my cousin over IM, he took this out of another site)
FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua
Last edited 10/25/09 12:47PM by Ordep
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #15 10/25/09 12:42:19PM
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