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Ben Henderson ‘definitely’ beat Donald Cerrone

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MMAcca

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“No excuses. I take my hat off to the guy. He did what he had to do. No excuses. It was a great fight and I’m ready to do it again anytime … I think he won the fight. Some people say it might not have gone that way, but he definitely won the fight.”

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Post #1   10/12/09 9:47:37AM   

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Henderson won the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds of that fight in my opinion but it was a really close 1st rd.

Post #2   10/12/09 11:10:52AM   

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For those interested

Takedowns: 8-1 Henderson
Pass Half Guard: 2-1 Henderson
Pass Side: 2-1 Cerrone
Pass to Back: 1-0 Henderson
Submission Attempts: 8-0 Cerrone

Striking: 75-50 Henderson
Head Strikes: 45-32 Henderson
Body Strikes: 25-8 Henderson
Leg Strikes: 10-5 Cerrone

Of course, check it out with round by round data at Fight Metric - Henderson vs. Cerrone

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Post #3   10/12/09 11:28:37AM   

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Posted by Kpro

For those interested

Takedowns: 8-1 Henderson
Pass Half Guard: 2-1 Henderson
Pass Side: 2-1 Cerrone
Pass to Back: 1-0 Henderson
Submission Attempts: 8-0 Cerrone

Striking: 75-50 Henderson
Head Strikes: 45-32 Henderson
Body Strikes: 25-8 Henderson
Leg Strikes: 10-5 Cerrone

Of course, check it out with round by round data at Fight Metric - Henderson vs. Cerrone



I thought people learned long ago that stats don't tell the story. The fact that henderson is up in striking shows that. I'm not arguing that this may be the case but there was a clear difference in the effectiveness of their strikes. Cerrone had Henderson in some real trouble in the fourth and fifth rounds with both his strikes and his submissions. In the first round he almost finished it with subs as well. Those 8 subs were all close and some of them were nearly a lock.

I can see how Henderson would get the nod because of the scoring system in the US but if that fight had been in Japan Cerrone would have won. He did better as a whole and was closer to finishing the fight. IMO, Henderson was never even close to a finish. Maybe one day the scoring criteria or the judges education will improve and this sort of thing won't be an issue.

I'm very impressed with Cerrone's humility in defeat and this just makes me like the guy even more.

Post #4   10/12/09 11:55:23AM   

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Posted by bjj1605

I thought people learned long ago that stats don't tell the story.

I can see how Henderson would get the nod because of the scoring system in the US but if that fight had been in Japan Cerrone would have won. He did better as a whole and was closer to finishing the fight.



If you use the LINK above. Using the "stats" it shows that in a Japanese (overall) scoring system Cerrone shows as the winner. While in a US scoring system Benson barely edges out the 48-47.

So the "stats" that don't tell the story show exactly what you think of the fight.

Last edited 10/12/09 12:18PM server time by kpro
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Post #5   10/12/09 12:03:39PM   

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Posted by Kpro


Posted by bjj1605

I thought people learned long ago that stats don't tell the story.

I can see how Henderson would get the nod because of the scoring system in the US but if that fight had been in Japan Cerrone would have won. He did better as a whole and was closer to finishing the fight.



If you use the LINK above. Using the "stats" it shows that in a Japanese (overall) scoring system Cerrone shows as the winner. While in a US scoring system Benson barely edges out the 48-47.

So the "stats" that don't tell the story show exactly what you think of the fight.



Actually, under fight metric scoring it was a 48-48 draw. 1st round was scored a draw.

Post #6   10/12/09 1:04:19PM   

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personally i though benson won the fight, no question about it.I don't know there's so much controversy about this either. Henderson had the most dominant positions through the fight I had no trouble dealing with it after the fight, even though i had picked cerrone and wanted him to win, I knew the ud would go to Benson. He read cerrone's gameplan from top to bottom and nullified it most of the fight. Im happy for the guy, but now we don't get varner cerrone II

Post #7   10/12/09 1:50:34PM   

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i thought it was an awesome fight, but i felt that Cerrone had won

round 1, although close, I think Cerrone had the edge.

round 2 and 3 to Henderson

round 4 and 5 to Cerrone

Takedowns are so lopsidedly weighted...they count for wayyyyy too much. I think that is what won henderson the fight.

take down points need to be reconsidered...you can take someone down and land in a disadvantageous position, or sometimes the other guy would rather be taken down and be on his back...just cuz you take someone down doesnt mean you were "better" or should get more points

you could take someone down and land right into a triangle..although youll get submitted, you get the points for taking him down and sealing your own fate..how does that make sense... they should give points if you taken them down and use it to your advantage...not just as a mere point stacker

Post #8   10/12/09 2:07:39PM   

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Posted by Kpro


Posted by bjj1605

I thought people learned long ago that stats don't tell the story.

I can see how Henderson would get the nod because of the scoring system in the US but if that fight had been in Japan Cerrone would have won. He did better as a whole and was closer to finishing the fight.



If you use the LINK above. Using the "stats" it shows that in a Japanese (overall) scoring system Cerrone shows as the winner. While in a US scoring system Benson barely edges out the 48-47.

So the "stats" that don't tell the story show exactly what you think of the fight.



You appear to be using some really flawed logic here bub. How do that stats show Cerrone won under Japanese scoring and Benson won under US scoring. Many people, my self included, thought Cerrone should get the 1st, 4th, and 5th rounds. Which under a US system makes him the winner.

Stats absolutely do not tell the story. Counting sub attempts is meaningless because one sub attempt could be a lot closer than another and therefore mean more in the judges eyes. Counting stirkes in general is also a waste because effective striking is what matters.

I didn't really think that this was a point of contention. Boxing fans and analysts learned long ago that stats can't tell the whole story and I think it is even more obvious in MMA.

Post #9   10/12/09 2:26:08PM   

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Posted by bjj1605

You appear to be using some really flawed logic here bub. How do that stats show Cerrone won under Japanese scoring and Benson won under US scoring. Many people, my self included, thought Cerrone should get the 1st, 4th, and 5th rounds. Which under a US system makes him the winner.

Stats absolutely do not tell the story. Counting sub attempts is meaningless because one sub attempt could be a lot closer than another and therefore mean more in the judges eyes. Counting stirkes in general is also a waste because effective striking is what matters.



You can go to fightmetric to see how they weigh each aspect of the MMA game. I simply explained to you that regardless of the lopsided takedown and striking advantage for Henderson, their system shows that Cerrone overall did more in the fight, which is how the Japanese scoring you referenced is supposed to be done.

Their stats "agree" with you. If you think it is flawed logic, it is not my logic, I pointed out to you that their "stats" show exactly who you think won the fight as the winner using their overall statistical system.

Not sure what you think you are rebutting as I never said stats tell the story, but in fact pointed out that the stats and system used on the specific website quoted above agree with your thoughts on who won the fight; maybe re-read my post.

Last edited 10/12/09 2:54PM server time by kpro
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Post #10   10/12/09 2:41:08PM   

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Cowboy won 1, 4 and 5 IMO.

Post #11   10/12/09 6:36:20PM   

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I also gave rd 1-4-5 to Cerrone, worst case scenario the first rd should of been a draw making the fight a draw as well. Still this was one of the best fight this year if not the best.

Post #12   10/12/09 11:51:22PM   

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If Henderson wasn't double jointed, he'd have been subbed in the second with the triangle armbar. Such is life.

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Post #13   10/13/09 12:05:44AM