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History and the Checkered Hero

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"In the wake of his loss to Junior dos Santos, Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic told the world that the places in his mind once filled with a focus on kicking opponents in the head had been replaced by thoughts of fishing in Privlaka.

Given the dismal turn the former K-1 standout's career has taken in the last two years, it comes as little surprise that he's thinking about calling it quits. Nonetheless, the stark and one-sided beating he took from the Brazilian heavyweight prospect last Saturday at UFC 103 has led to fans and pundits alike wondering how we came to this point, where MMA's formerly most feared striker has been relegated to a disappointing also-ran in a division he was supposed to reign over with impunity."


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Post #1   9/25/09 8:19:21AM   

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The writer is right on most accounts. But there is much more he is leaving out and i dont buy the age factor. You can use getting old as an excuse everytime someone flops. There is nothing in Mirko fights that says he is getting old or worn down. losing isnt a sign of age. Take a look at Chuck, Randy, Pulver, Menne, Abbott, Shamrock. What do they all have in common? You can clearly see a new pattern in their fights that relates to age. And its not in the Win/Loss column. As fighters in MMA get older they tend to be MUCH easier to KO. All of them where either know for their ability to take a good punch or to avoid the punch altogether. But they were not getting KOed. Now Its pretty much a given if they get hit that they are in trouble. Some of its due to the brains ability to take the punch as they get older. Some is due to them being slower and losing their reflexes. So they get hit more, harder, and more accurately than in the past.

This is not happening to Mirko. He isnt gettign KOed because he is old. He isnt slowing down either. He technically doesnt do what he needs for him to win. He dont punch, he dont move, he dont work, and he dont use any other MMA skills. Thast why he loses. He just isnt as good as everyone though he was.

People just dont want to admit that the skill level as a whole, not getting into individual fighters, was not as high as every thought it was. Only in Pride can a pure striker come from K1 and have any success. That would never happen in the UFC. Its the hardest of all the style to have success in MMA with no other skill to compliment it. Pride knew how to build fighters. Especially fighters who were popular from K-1 or Pro Wrestling. Fighters were built by fighting guys who shouldnt have been in the ring and often times guys who were not even fighters. All of those fights go into creating an image. Those are the only purposes of fights like that. Everyone Mirko has beat has proven to not be as good as they seemed to be. From Nog to Herring to Silva. The top guys in Pride just happen to be the best guys Pride had. But it is well known Pride never put much effort in finding the best talent the world had to offer. Thats not to say Fedor isnt the best or some of the fighters werent good. But Not all of the name guys from Pride were the top 10 ranked fighters we though. Herring is not any worse now than he was. Neither is Nog, Silva, Cop, Gomi, etc. They are just finally competing against the best fighters in the world instead of just the best fighters Pride has to offer. Big Difference.

Getting old is just a Cop out. No pun intended. Is Sudokujew "old" too just because he cant come in and land 1 punch like he did in Pride? He has met the same fate as Mirko. Fighting in the UFC he was unable to do anything to anyone except another Pride fighter. But was able to destroy 2 of the biggest names in Pride. He isnt old. He just isnt that good.

Its hard to know where to rank any of Prides fighters careers among the best in MMA history. The game, rules, and culture was just to different from any other promotion to ever exist. You can only compare them to others under the same banner. I dont think Mirko was ever one of the best HWs in the world. But he was one of the best Pride HWs adn was a great performer. I look at Pride as more of a show than anything else. Mirko was always putting on an entertaining performance.

Post #2   9/25/09 12:06:37PM   

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Posted by Brain_Smasher

The writer is right on most accounts. But there is much more he is leaving out and i dont buy the age factor. You can use getting old as an excuse everytime someone flops. There is nothing in Mirko fights that says he is getting old or worn down. losing isnt a sign of age. Take a look at Chuck, Randy, Pulver, Menne, Abbott, Shamrock. What do they all have in common? You can clearly see a new pattern in their fights that relates to age. And its not in the Win/Loss column. As fighters in MMA get older they tend to be MUCH easier to KO. All of them where either know for their ability to take a good punch or to avoid the punch altogether. But they were not getting KOed. Now Its pretty much a given if they get hit that they are in trouble. Some of its due to the brains ability to take the punch as they get older. Some is due to them being slower and losing their reflexes. So they get hit more, harder, and more accurately 1than in the past.

This is not happening to Mirko. He isnt gettign KOed because he is old. He isnt slowing down either. He technically doesnt do what he needs for him to win. He dont punch, he dont move, he dont work, and he dont use any other MMA skills. Thast why he loses. He just isnt as good as everyone though he was.

People just dont want to admit that the skill level as a whole, not getting into individual fighters, was not as high as every thought it was. Only in Pride can a pure striker come from K1 and have any success. That would never happen in the UFC. Its the hardest of all the style to have success in MMA with no other skill to compliment it. Pride knew how to build fighters. Especially fighters who were popular from K-1 or Pro Wrestling. Fighters were built by fighting guys who shouldnt have been in the ring and often times guys who were not even fighters. All of those fights go into creating an image. Those are the only purposes of fights like that. Everyone Mirko has beat has proven to not be as good as they seemed to be. From Nog to Herring to Silva. The top guys in Pride just happen to be the best guys Pride had. But it is well known Pride never put much effort in finding the best talent the world had to offer. Thats not to say Fedor isnt the best or some of the fighters werent good. But Not all of the name guys from Pride were the top 10 ranked fighters we though. Herring is not any worse now than he was. Neither is Nog, Silva, Cop, Gomi, etc. They are just finally competing against the best fighters in the world instead of just the best fighters Pride has to offer. Big Difference.

Getting old is just a Cop out. No pun intended. Is Sudokujew "old" too just because he cant come in and land 1 punch like he did in Pride? He has met the same fate as Mirko. Fighting in the UFC he was unable to do anything to anyone except another Pride fighter. But was able to destroy 2 of the biggest names in Pride. He isnt old. He just isnt that good.

Its hard to know where to rank any of Prides fighters careers among the best in MMA history. The game, rules, and culture was just to different from any other promotion to ever exist. You can only compare them to others under the same banner. I dont think Mirko was ever one of the best HWs in the world. But he was one of the best Pride HWs adn was a great performer. I look at Pride as more of a show than anything else. Mirko was always putting on an entertaining performance.



This post is absolutely ridiculous.

First of all, some people lose their ability to take a shot, Mirko has lost speed and footwork. Saying that he just isn't as good as people thought is ludicrous. So you think he still fights the way he did against Aleks Emelianenko? Igor Vovchanchyn? You think he moves the same way he did in those fights? Comparing him to Sokoudjou if a joke. Sokky has not had anywhere near the career that Mirko did, he had two wins with two punches. Mirko had a career in K-1 and MMA and did well in both. Comparing them is just dull. Just watch those fights for gods sake, the way he fights is completely different, without comparing the level of competition. Even if you do though, Mustapha Al Turk is crap, and you can tell that the way he fought Al Turk is completely different to the way he fought in Pride.

It's crazy how you can't just watch the fights and see how different his performances were, watch his foot work.

The reason that Mirko made it in MMA was because he had a sprawl. No other K-1 fighter made it as good as he did. So you can't just say "Only in Pride can a pure striker come from K1 and have any success" No one else could, no other striker can, they've tried MMA but not succeeded. Mirko beat Coleman who was a great wrestler, you need skills in takedown defence for this.

Post #3   9/25/09 12:57:50PM   

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Posted by Brain_Smasher

The writer is right on most accounts. But there is much more he is leaving out and i dont buy the age factor. You can use getting old as an excuse everytime someone flops. There is nothing in Mirko fights that says he is getting old or worn down. losing isnt a sign of age. Take a look at Chuck, Randy, Pulver, Menne, Abbott, Shamrock. What do they all have in common? You can clearly see a new pattern in their fights that relates to age. And its not in the Win/Loss column. As fighters in MMA get older they tend to be MUCH easier to KO. All of them where either know for their ability to take a good punch or to avoid the punch altogether. But they were not getting KOed. Now Its pretty much a given if they get hit that they are in trouble. Some of its due to the brains ability to take the punch as they get older. Some is due to them being slower and losing their reflexes. So they get hit more, harder, and more accurately than in the past.

This is not happening to Mirko. He isnt gettign KOed because he is old. He isnt slowing down either. He technically doesnt do what he needs for him to win. He dont punch, he dont move, he dont work, and he dont use any other MMA skills. Thast why he loses. He just isnt as good as everyone though he was.

People just dont want to admit that the skill level as a whole, not getting into individual fighters, was not as high as every thought it was. Only in Pride can a pure striker come from K1 and have any success. That would never happen in the UFC. Its the hardest of all the style to have success in MMA with no other skill to compliment it. Pride knew how to build fighters. Especially fighters who were popular from K-1 or Pro Wrestling. Fighters were built by fighting guys who shouldnt have been in the ring and often times guys who were not even fighters. All of those fights go into creating an image. Those are the only purposes of fights like that. Everyone Mirko has beat has proven to not be as good as they seemed to be. From Nog to Herring to Silva. The top guys in Pride just happen to be the best guys Pride had. But it is well known Pride never put much effort in finding the best talent the world had to offer. Thats not to say Fedor isnt the best or some of the fighters werent good. But Not all of the name guys from Pride were the top 10 ranked fighters we though. Herring is not any worse now than he was. Neither is Nog, Silva, Cop, Gomi, etc. They are just finally competing against the best fighters in the world instead of just the best fighters Pride has to offer. Big Difference.

Getting old is just a Cop out. No pun intended. Is Sudokujew "old" too just because he cant come in and land 1 punch like he did in Pride? He has met the same fate as Mirko. Fighting in the UFC he was unable to do anything to anyone except another Pride fighter. But was able to destroy 2 of the biggest names in Pride. He isnt old. He just isnt that good.

Its hard to know where to rank any of Prides fighters careers among the best in MMA history. The game, rules, and culture was just to different from any other promotion to ever exist. You can only compare them to others under the same banner. I dont think Mirko was ever one of the best HWs in the world. But he was one of the best Pride HWs adn was a great performer. I look at Pride as more of a show than anything else. Mirko was always putting on an entertaining performance.




Dude youre a fool

Post #4   9/25/09 1:13:22PM   

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Posted by Brain_Smasher


This is not happening to Mirko. He isnt gettign KOed because he is old. He isnt slowing down either. He technically doesnt do what he needs for him to win. He dont punch, he dont move, he dont work, and he dont use any other MMA skills. Thast why he loses. He just isnt as good as everyone though he was.





This is about the only part that I agree with and I think (as the article writer stated) is the main issue. the thing that confuses me is that Mirko has stated on more than one occasion that he knows this, but it is beyond me why he never acted on those issues.

The whole Pride vs UFC thing is a big red herring. The skill sets and strengths of MMA fighters in general have advanced at a much more rapid rate since Pride declined. It would be folly to compare the success of a fighter (from either UFC or pride) 3+ years ago and use it as a benchmark for how they would do today. The only comparison between fighters' success in pride vs. the UFC (IMO) that can be made is the difference between the ring and cage and how each benefits different types of fighters.

Added to which, I predict a trend in MMA, where focused skill sets and their success come in waves. We've seen the wave of the BJJ artist and the wave of the wrestler, now we are seeing the wave of the striker take off (did anyone notice the main card of UFC 103 was almost entirely stand up?). Eventually another generation of fighters will pass and we'll see another dominant MMA style.

Regarding age, I think the article author hit it on the head. Speaking metaphorically, it's not how old the car is, but how many miles were put on it and how it was driven.

Last edited 9/25/09 1:46PM server time by Rush
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Post #5   9/25/09 1:40:57PM   

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Posted by higdon10


Posted by Brain_Smasher

The writer is right on most accounts. But there is much more he is leaving out and i dont buy the age factor. You can use getting old as an excuse everytime someone flops. There is nothing in Mirko fights that says he is getting old or worn down. losing isnt a sign of age. Take a look at Chuck, Randy, Pulver, Menne, Abbott, Shamrock. What do they all have in common? You can clearly see a new pattern in their fights that relates to age. And its not in the Win/Loss column. As fighters in MMA get older they tend to be MUCH easier to KO. All of them where either know for their ability to take a good punch or to avoid the punch altogether. But they were not getting KOed. Now Its pretty much a given if they get hit that they are in trouble. Some of its due to the brains ability to take the punch as they get older. Some is due to them being slower and losing their reflexes. So they get hit more, harder, and more accurately than in the past.

This is not happening to Mirko. He isnt gettign KOed because he is old. He isnt slowing down either. He technically doesnt do what he needs for him to win. He dont punch, he dont move, he dont work, and he dont use any other MMA skills. Thast why he loses. He just isnt as good as everyone though he was.

People just dont want to admit that the skill level as a whole, not getting into individual fighters, was not as high as every thought it was. Only in Pride can a pure striker come from K1 and have any success. That would never happen in the UFC. Its the hardest of all the style to have success in MMA with no other skill to compliment it. Pride knew how to build fighters. Especially fighters who were popular from K-1 or Pro Wrestling. Fighters were built by fighting guys who shouldnt have been in the ring and often times guys who were not even fighters. All of those fights go into creating an image. Those are the only purposes of fights like that. Everyone Mirko has beat has proven to not be as good as they seemed to be. From Nog to Herring to Silva. The top guys in Pride just happen to be the best guys Pride had. But it is well known Pride never put much effort in finding the best talent the world had to offer. Thats not to say Fedor isnt the best or some of the fighters werent good. But Not all of the name guys from Pride were the top 10 ranked fighters we though. Herring is not any worse now than he was. Neither is Nog, Silva, Cop, Gomi, etc. They are just finally competing against the best fighters in the world instead of just the best fighters Pride has to offer. Big Difference.

Getting old is just a Cop out. No pun intended. Is Sudokujew "old" too just because he cant come in and land 1 punch like he did in Pride? He has met the same fate as Mirko. Fighting in the UFC he was unable to do anything to anyone except another Pride fighter. But was able to destroy 2 of the biggest names in Pride. He isnt old. He just isnt that good.

Its hard to know where to rank any of Prides fighters careers among the best in MMA history. The game, rules, and culture was just to different from any other promotion to ever exist. You can only compare them to others under the same banner. I dont think Mirko was ever one of the best HWs in the world. But he was one of the best Pride HWs adn was a great performer. I look at Pride as more of a show than anything else. Mirko was always putting on an entertaining performance.




Dude youre a fool



BS got banned for his post, but this guy got nothing.

1. Do not engage in name-calling, threats, exchanges of insults, or intentionally rude behavior towards fellow members.

I guess it is all about what fighter you nutride.

Post #6   9/27/09 3:43:15AM   

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Posted by lll-lll

Dude youre a fool



BS got banned for his post, but this guy got nothing.

1. Do not engage in name-calling, threats, exchanges of insults, or intentionally rude behavior towards fellow members.

I guess it is all about what fighter you nutride.



He hasn't made a post since yesterday and I am betting he wont. I suspect he got banned.

Post #7   9/27/09 10:03:14PM   

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Posted by lll-lll

BS got banned for his post, but this guy got nothing.

1. Do not engage in name-calling, threats, exchanges of insults, or intentionally rude behavior towards fellow members.

I guess it is all about what fighter you nutride.



Speak only of what you know, man. Rush is correct.

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Post #8   9/28/09 10:39:50AM   

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Posted by lll-lll


Posted by higdon10


Posted by Brain_Smasher

The writer is right on most accounts. But there is much more he is leaving out and i dont buy the age factor. You can use getting old as an excuse everytime someone flops. There is nothing in Mirko fights that says he is getting old or worn down. losing isnt a sign of age. Take a look at Chuck, Randy, Pulver, Menne, Abbott, Shamrock. What do they all have in common? You can clearly see a new pattern in their fights that relates to age. And its not in the Win/Loss column. As fighters in MMA get older they tend to be MUCH easier to KO. All of them where either know for their ability to take a good punch or to avoid the punch altogether. But they were not getting KOed. Now Its pretty much a given if they get hit that they are in trouble. Some of its due to the brains ability to take the punch as they get older. Some is due to them being slower and losing their reflexes. So they get hit more, harder, and more accurately than in the past.

This is not happening to Mirko. He isnt gettign KOed because he is old. He isnt slowing down either. He technically doesnt do what he needs for him to win. He dont punch, he dont move, he dont work, and he dont use any other MMA skills. Thast why he loses. He just isnt as good as everyone though he was.

People just dont want to admit that the skill level as a whole, not getting into individual fighters, was not as high as every thought it was. Only in Pride can a pure striker come from K1 and have any success. That would never happen in the UFC. Its the hardest of all the style to have success in MMA with no other skill to compliment it. Pride knew how to build fighters. Especially fighters who were popular from K-1 or Pro Wrestling. Fighters were built by fighting guys who shouldnt have been in the ring and often times guys who were not even fighters. All of those fights go into creating an image. Those are the only purposes of fights like that. Everyone Mirko has beat has proven to not be as good as they seemed to be. From Nog to Herring to Silva. The top guys in Pride just happen to be the best guys Pride had. But it is well known Pride never put much effort in finding the best talent the world had to offer. Thats not to say Fedor isnt the best or some of the fighters werent good. But Not all of the name guys from Pride were the top 10 ranked fighters we though. Herring is not any worse now than he was. Neither is Nog, Silva, Cop, Gomi, etc. They are just finally competing against the best fighters in the world instead of just the best fighters Pride has to offer. Big Difference.

Getting old is just a Cop out. No pun intended. Is Sudokujew "old" too just because he cant come in and land 1 punch like he did in Pride? He has met the same fate as Mirko. Fighting in the UFC he was unable to do anything to anyone except another Pride fighter. But was able to destroy 2 of the biggest names in Pride. He isnt old. He just isnt that good.

Its hard to know where to rank any of Prides fighters careers among the best in MMA history. The game, rules, and culture was just to different from any other promotion to ever exist. You can only compare them to others under the same banner. I dont think Mirko was ever one of the best HWs in the world. But he was one of the best Pride HWs adn was a great performer. I look at Pride as more of a show than anything else. Mirko was always putting on an entertaining performance.




Dude youre a fool



BS got banned for his post, but this guy got nothing.

1. Do not engage in name-calling, threats, exchanges of insults, or intentionally rude behavior towards fellow members.

I guess it is all about what fighter you nutride.




Feel better now? Sorry we don't monitor every thread and every post on the boards. We'll do better from now on out

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Post #9   9/28/09 1:50:27PM   

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He wasn't banned when I posted. I checked.

Post #10   9/28/09 3:22:11PM   

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Posted by lll-lll

He wasn't banned when I posted. I checked.



There's absolutely no way for a member to "check". He may not have had the "Banned" title, but he was banned on 9/27/09.

Besides, it's really none of your business.

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Post #11   9/28/09 3:23:29PM   

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Posted by emfleek


Posted by lll-lll

He wasn't banned when I posted. I checked.



There's absolutely no way for a member to "check". He may not have had the "Banned" title, but he was banned on 9/27/09.

Besides, it's really none of your business.



I clicked his name and got his profile. I clicked Brai'sd and got invalid ID.

Post #12   9/28/09 3:36:43PM   

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Posted by lll-lll

I clicked his name and got his profile. I clicked Brai'sd and got invalid ID.



Not that you're owed an explanation, but here's a brief rundown.

You got his profile because his account is still active. He's temporarily banned for a minor rules violation with ZERO warnings in the past.

Brain_Smasher is perma-banned (account disabled) for his douchebaggery and had previous warnings since he joined the site.

Like I said..it's nobody's business but those who are involved.

End of discussion.

Last edited 9/28/09 3:41PM server time by emfleek
Edit note/reason: n/a

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Post #13   9/28/09 3:41:17PM