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Sean Salmon Admits to Taking a Dive

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Aether

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"He went for an armbar, I defended it (only to prove to myself that he couldn't get it), and then I put my arm back in to give him the win so that I could return to England, healthy."


I don't see how anyone can say that this does not fall under the banner of throwing a fight. It doesn't matter who benefits, what does the word "throw" mean in relation to a competition? Unless you're talking about the physical movement of throwing an object, it means to lose intentionally. It's right there in the title. Whether someone else benefited from it or not is not relevant. It might not be considered FIXING the fight, since it wasn't prearranged, but this is absolutely throwing a fight.

I also don't believe it's fair to say that anyone jumped to any conclusions, it's a direct quote straight from the horse's mouth, all of the excuses he makes about being sad, stressed or afraid of being cut frankly I have no sympathy for at all.

Vitor Belfort had his sister kidnapped and murdered and still stepped into the cage and gave it his all every single time, what is this dude's excuse? He might get cut? He chose to do drugs? Just about every fighter goes through extreme stress, physical injuries, and personal issues and they don't all throw fights anytime their life gets tough or they think they might get cut. And to explain it in such a way as to say "well I could have beaten him if I wanted to, but I just let him have it". Not only is he admitting throwing a fight, but he's stroking his own ego while doing it. Amazing.

And then to completely backpedal, saying "I did not throw the fight I gave up when things got hard" That's funny because you were just talking about how easily you were manhandling the guy, even making a point to say "I defended the armbar only to prove he couldn't get it.". Wow. Are people supposed to be impressed by that comment?

The second part is clearly written in an indignant, defensive tone,how about these classy, humble quotes: "the only people I owe an apology to are my family and training partners." "And I don't give a **** about anyone that may have made or lost money on that fight" "I still haven't been paid". All of this plus the attitude he exhibited towards his opponents in the UFC. He really seems to think that he's above everyone, even in the middle of admitting to throwing a fight.

This is a new level of classlessness, I don't think any of the words that I'm allowed to use on this forum would adequately convey my distaste for this guy. I'm definitely not remotely torn.

Post #16   9/3/09 7:53:46PM   

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Posted by Aether

I don't see how anyone can say that this does not fall under the banner of throwing a fight. It doesn't matter who benefits, what does the word "throw" mean in relation to a competition?



So by your definition anyone that quits a fight for any reason other than pain or injury is throwing a fight?


To me there is a difference by influencing the outcome of a fight BEFORE the fight takes place, thus implying outside benefactors vs. deciding that you want to quit/lose DURING the fight.

I'm not defending what he did, but I believe there is a difference between the two scenarios.

Post #17   9/3/09 8:21:46PM   

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throw (thro)
v. threw (throo), thrown (thron), throw·ing, throws

v. tr.

17. Informal To lose or give up (a contest, for example) purposely.


It's not really a matter of what I think, that's the definition of the word, there are no requisites for the reason you choose to give up.

BUT as I said, I do agree that FIXING a fight and THROWING a fight are not necessarily the same thing. In order to fix a fight someone has to throw a fight, but someone who throws a fight is not necessarily doing so because the fight has been fixed ahead of time. I think that fixing is the word you are looking for, where it is planned ahead for some specific reason, usually profit, which yes, I agree is explicitly different from throwing a fight without premeditating it.

That being said I do not believe that what he did is comparable to a fighter in a battle having his resilience broken by a fighter with more heart. He's pretty adamant about how easily he was winning the fight, about how his opponent could not possibly armbar him unless he physically placed his own arm in the lock etc. I just don't buy the "when things got hard I quit" He uses the word "easily" to describe how he handled his opponent. To me, those statements are utterly and completely contradictory. All that looks like is him backpedaling after taking the flak he deserves.

Do I think that he rigged the fight for money? No. Do I think he threw the fight? Yes.

Post #18   9/3/09 8:52:45PM   

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Posted by Rush


Posted by Aether

I don't see how anyone can say that this does not fall under the banner of throwing a fight. It doesn't matter who benefits, what does the word "throw" mean in relation to a competition?



So by your definition anyone that quits a fight for any reason other than pain or injury is throwing a fight?


To me there is a difference by influencing the outcome of a fight BEFORE the fight takes place, thus implying outside benefactors vs. deciding that you want to quit/lose DURING the fight.

I'm not defending what he did, but I believe there is a difference between the two scenarios.



The difference between quitting due to injury or exhaustion, losing on purpose, and throwing a fight for personal gain are pretty clear.

Salmon lost the fight on purpose for reasons having nothing to do with his ability to carry on in the fight.

People expect that when they are watching a sports contest the athletes are going to try to win to the best of their ability. Doing less than that as an athlete is an affront to the sport and its fans. And even more so if the athlete is intentionally trying to lose the contest.

I can see what you mean rush about him not really "throwing" the fight in the sense that he didn't pull a Blacksox-type of move. But what he did was still completely outside the bounds of what is acceptable.

I am sure there have been other times where a fighter has given up an easy loss on purpose, but to my knowledge no one else has been dumb enough to write about it.

I imagine there will be some reprecussions from all this, and I can't say that I care too much about what kind of trouble this causes him because fighting with any intentions other than 1) winning and 2) providing an exciting show is not acceptable in MMA or any other sport.

Imagine if a MLB player said he struck out to lose the game on purpose because he didn't want to get hurt on the basepath... or an NFL safety didn't tackle a player and let him score the winning touchdown because he didn't want to hurt himself.

Last edited 9/3/09 9:37PM server time by ncordless
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Post #19   9/3/09 9:29:08PM   

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Well, I don't consider the baseball, football, etc examples to be the same because those are team sports whereas this is individual competition (though that can also be debated, but I believe that MMA competition is individual.) and the fighter only lets themselves down.

I guess the way I look at it is that if the fight was lost purely for the reasons he stated, I don't see anything wrong with that. There was no (to our knowledge) scheme involved to win money or do anything illegal. He just gave up for his own reasons. His punishment is the loss on his record and I think that is sufficient. The same goes for any guy that says he is too tired to continue. His loss for "throwing" the fight is the L on his record. I guess it all goes back to what I asked a little while back and whether or not these fighters owe us anything, to which I responded "no".

To be honest, if he should be criticized for doing the dumb thing and mention all this publicly. Because really that is what all this is about. Had he kept his mouth shut, nobody would have thought differently.

If a fighter chooses in mid-battle to not give 100% I am ok with that. In the end they get what is coming to them, usually in the form of an "L" and possibly alienation from big orgs. Likewise, I don't hold a higher standard for fighters that make stupid decisions in vain either. Ed Herman for example, IMO, made a big boo boo continuing the fight with a messed up knee and then throwing a kick too boot. To anyone with half a brain, it was obvious he was not going to win that fight and him trying to look like a "warrior" probably cost him an extra month or two on the couch with a worse injury. Had he said "that is enough" after the first round, I would have accepted that. If it was going into round 3 and he clearly won round 1 and 2, I would think there was more reason for him continue, but it was obvious that he was not going to win that fight as it was coming out of round 1. (I'll probably get blasted for this, but that is how I feel)

Post #20   9/3/09 10:16:54PM   
 
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