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M-1 fighter Toni Valtonen has a swastika tattoo

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Post #1   9/2/09 9:37:16AM   

ncordless

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He has the right to put hate speech on his body.

The promoters and TV people have the right not to hire him.

If I see him or anyone else with hate speech or symbols on their body at an mma show I will never watch a show by that company again. The onus to act is firmly in the corner of the promoters. They should not allow the guy to compete in their orgs. until he gets the tatoo covered.

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Post #2   9/2/09 9:47:47AM   

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Posted by ncordless

He has the right to put hate speech on his body.

The promoters and TV people have the right not to hire him.

If I see him or anyone else with hate speech or symbols on their body at an mma show I will never watch a show by that company again. The onus to act is firmly in the corner of the promoters. They should not allow the guy to compete in their orgs. until he gets the tatoo covered.




You took the words right out of my mouth.

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Post #3   9/2/09 9:51:15AM   

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I cant be arsed about his tattoo.Its his choice - his right- he has that freedom.
If a company / promoter is willing to enlist him it is your choice as a viewer to support it or not.

I am not offended by it... same as I am not offended by black/brown pride slogans tattoos etc. What happened was awful and should always be remembered but I will still watch the fight cards irrespective of the fighters personal views - religious or political.



Post #4   9/2/09 10:45:31AM   

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isnt a swastika a budist symbol as well tho? i might be very mistaken but from wht i can remeber from RE at school if u turn it around or something it means peace in the budist religion...

Post #5   9/2/09 11:41:22AM   

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Its not cool, but if he wants to walk around with that on his body for the rest of his life then thats his decision. When we start banning people from competition ect becouse of their beliefs, we become the prejudice ones. I know alot of people will disagree with that but thats my opinion.

What doesnt sit well with me is the fact hes saying he doesnt believe in it anymore. Then why doesnt he have it covered up or removed?

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Post #6   9/2/09 11:59:46AM   

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Posted by sexynick

isnt a swastika a budist symbol as well tho? i might be very mistaken but from wht i can remeber from RE at school if u turn it around or something it means peace in the budist religion...



Hindu and Buddist Swasticas are normally very decrotive - the white and red background generally indicates the Nazi Swastica.

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Post #7   9/2/09 12:02:32PM   

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Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by sexynick

isnt a swastika a budist symbol as well tho? i might be very mistaken but from wht i can remeber from RE at school if u turn it around or something it means peace in the budist religion...



Hindu and Buddist Swasticas are normally very decrotive - the white and red background generally indicates the Nazi Swastica.




I also believe the in the context of Buddhism, the symbol is not tilted at an angle like the swastika. Though I think Buddhism now uses another symbol.

Post #8   9/2/09 12:08:16PM   

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Wow, we've reached the age where even an MMA professional (?) has to remove all offending symbols before people will stop boycotting him. I don't agree.

Hate him if you want, but respect his right to deface/mark/ink/tat/whatever his own skin.

Last edited 9/2/09 2:14PM server time by scoozna
Edit note/reason: because

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Post #9   9/2/09 12:10:33PM   

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Posted by sexynick

isnt a swastika a budist symbol as well tho? i might be very mistaken but from wht i can remeber from RE at school if u turn it around or something it means peace in the budist religion...



someone watched inside mma this week.......

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Post #10   9/2/09 12:27:29PM   

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The SwastiKa is an ancient Sanskrit symbol. The symbol itself actually has a positive meaning. The Nazis corrupted it forever though. If it is Red and Black it is certainly a Nazi "display". However offensive it is...it is his right to wear it and think what he likes. It is also the promotions choice and right to hire him...and it is our choice to watch him or not. I have no issues watching him fight...even though I believe his personal beliefs to be completely ignorant and utterly disrespectful.
It is about choice though. Nazis aren't the only evil ones in the world...nor are Swastikas the only symbols of hate. Ask an African American how they feel about the Confederate flag!!!!!! I see those flags and stickers even up here in NY.
Hate comes in all colors. Choice is something we desperately need to keep "Sacred" though. If you don't like his views...don't watch him. It is good he wears a Swastika...he can't hide his hate or beliefs! Even though I am sure he wouldn't want to hide them...he wants to be abrasive. Now he has "publicity"....the publicity he wants....thanks to whomever posted this!

Last edited 9/2/09 12:29PM server time by Sir_Karl
Edit note/reason: spelling correction

Post #11   9/2/09 12:29:03PM   

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ok ill go further on the inside mma thing, they talked about it this past week, and the guys says its something stupid he did when he was younger. he also was wearing a patch over it during his last fight, but of course it came off as he started to sweat. its a stupid thing to do to yourself, even if you are just a dumb kid at the time, but if he goes out and gets it covered i think hes shown that hes grown up a bit and it was just a "mistake" from his idiotic youth.

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Post #12   9/2/09 12:34:52PM   

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This may have been touched on he also has White Pride accross his back. He needs to wear a neoprean sleve on his arm to cover it IMO. His back not sure he can do anything about that.

I remember in 10th grade my history teacher also told me that a swastika was a christan cross then the Nazi party made it their symbol. I have no clue if that is true because the older I get the more full of $hit I find my teachers were.

Also someone said its his right to have it....he is from Finland I belive I don't know how they veiw freedom of speach in his country it may or may not be ok remember just because you might have right dosn't mean others do.

Post #13   9/2/09 12:51:12PM   

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Posted by postman

This may have been touched on he also has White Pride accross his back. He needs to wear a neoprean sleve on his arm to cover it IMO. His back not sure he can do anything about that.





Well, considering nobody even questions Cain Valasquez's brown pride tattoo im not sure its really fair to question a white pride tattoo either. Keeping in mind Cain is fighting on PPV cards infront on millions of people showing his tattoo.

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Post #14   9/2/09 12:57:13PM   

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Posted by Aaronno9


Well, considering nobody even questions Cain Valasquez's brown pride tattoo im not sure its really fair to question a white pride tattoo either. Keeping in mind Cain is fighting on PPV cards infront on millions of people showing his tattoo.



I wouldn't doubt the potential for the double standard.


People can say all they want about freedom of speech, but if that speech (text or whatever it is) promotes hate or hate crimes, I do believe that is breaking the law.

Post #15   9/2/09 1:10:48PM   
 
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