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On Fedor and the MMA Hardcore Community

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warglory

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Posted by Manfred


Posted by warglory
He is in this to make money, the fans are a distant secondfor him. It's pure, unadulterated disrespect towards the people that are responsible for turning him into a millionaire.



I don't understand this notion. First of all, he provided hours of entertaining and exciting fights. That's what he gave to the fans. It was a transaction, plain and simple. You got entertainment, he got paid. He doesn't owe you anything else anymore than you owe him. Same goes for a movie stars, football players or whatever.

And now the fans will see him fight for free. Not 49.95 (or the cost of your internet connection) There are at lease 2 decent non-Zuffa fights out there. And the UFC "fast risers" like Carwin,Brock, Cain should thank their luck stars that they are getting more time to increase their skills before meeting him

Do I wish he pressed M-1 to release him of the last 3 fights? Yes. But he has chosen to honor his contract as it is.

You think it's out of disrespect to his fans? Laughable, since the vast majority of American fans haven't put one penny into his pocket anyways. How many PRIDE or Affliction PPV buys did the average US fan purchase?



He has made millions of dollars with Affliction, and while PRIDE was around, the hardcores shoved tons of money into PPV and dvd sales which contributed to the company's growth, and systematically Fedor's pockets. I respect the fact that he has put on entertaining bouts in the past, but the past is the past. Fedor posed to make money anywhere he went, but he knew, M-1 global knew and the fans knew that his acceptance with Strikeforce would lead to far less competition and a huge let down for many, many fans. Fedor has clearly stated that he doesn't care about his legacy, where he ranks or how popular he is, which ultimately leads to the question, then why fight at all? Money is the only avenue I can deduce from this.

Post #16   8/5/09 7:20:34AM   

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Posted by warglory
He has made millions of dollars with Affliction, and while PRIDE was around, the hardcores shoved tons of money into PPV and dvd sales which contributed to the company's growth, and systematically Fedor's pockets. I respect the fact that he has put on entertaining bouts in the past, but the past is the past. Fedor posed to make money anywhere he went, but he knew, M-1 global knew and the fans knew that his acceptance with Strikeforce would lead to far less competition and a huge let down for many, many fans. Fedor has clearly stated that he doesn't care about his legacy, where he ranks or how popular he is, which ultimately leads to the question, then why fight at all? Money is the only avenue I can deduce from this.



I understand your point. But again I ask, what does he owe you or the fans. Even the ones that have paid? He did his job.

He's never been shy about his feeling towards his job. That's how he sees it. He's always said he does this to earn money, not for fame, not to prove himself to anyone.

So why is everyone shocked that he didn't reneg on a signed contract in order to fight a one-dimensional over-hyped monster and the the rest of the UFCs green horns.

I know they have deeper talent overall, but the idea that he screws M-1 (who could probably get an injuction that would prevent him from fighting in the UFC anyways) in order to please the fans because he OWES them is wrong to me.

Post #17   8/5/09 7:40:33AM   

mrsmiley

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I've been pretty quiet on making any comments about the whole thing.
I kind of like the fact that Fedor can go against the status quo and still make such big waves.(Okay, maybe it's more the management than Fedor himself,but I certainly think within our western conditioning one could make Fedor out like that.)
If anything,that alone is a testiment to how highly fans think of him in terms of pure skill.
But I do admit,a part of me does want to see Fedor in the UFC.

But when I herd we was apart of Strike Force my eyes did have to light up.
I think guys like Rogers and Overeem will pose good challenges for Fedor.
At the end of the day,I'm just happy I didn't jump on my computer and smash it,had the situation been different and I read he went back to Japan to fight Bob Sapp or someone along those lines.(No offense Bob!)








Post #18   8/5/09 8:23:12AM   

postman

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Posted by lohmann


Posted by telnights


Posted by ncordless

Overeem - has been on a tear until his recent injuries. Since his suspicious explosion of muscle, he has looked very good. His success in K-1 doesn't directly translate over, but is a strong indicator that his newfound strength has made him dangerously powerful a la Brock. Still, it is hard for me to get past all the times I have seen Overeem get destroyed in the past. The Overeem I always knew looked great for about 3 minutes and then gassed and got viciously KOed. But he has not looked the same as then. After Brock, then Barnett (which honestly I don't really care about now that Barnett tested positive again), either Overeem or Mir would be the match I would like to see most for Fedor.



I'm not knocking you for wanting to see them fight I just don't understand whats up with the hype of Overeem. He was barely a mid level LHW and now he is a HW and everyone is thinking he is a top 10 or would be a good fight for Fedor. He hasn't beaten one top level HW and now some people think he could give Fedor a good match. I just don't get it.



He dominated a K-1 finalist handily, knocking him out fairly easily, and then took a three-time grand prix winner three rounds and may have won that fight if not for the knockdown in the final round. Combined with how terrible he made Cro Cop look before that fight was ruled a no contest, I do not think Overeem is the same fighter at heavyweight as he was at light heavyweight. He is a fearsome striker, but unlike the Cro Cops, Yvels, etc. out there, his grappling is not subpar (most of his wins coming via submission). I definitely think he's a top five talent at heavyweight, even if he's not ranked there. (It probably hurts my credibility that I am an Overeem nuthugger.) He and Lesnar I think are the two fighters that pose the most significant problems for Fedor.

The UFC has some exciting new matchups for Fedor, but most of their talent is still developing. The winner of Carwin/Velasquez, JDS should he beat Cro Cop, Couture if aging has not yet caught up with him, Mir if he puts together four or five wins in a row (which I would not bet on). That's not as favorable as Strikeforce, who offer Rogers, who knocked out Arlovski faster than Fedor did, Werdum and the ability to co-promote, getting Fedor into fights with Monson, Antonio Silva, and even Josh Barnett. I think there's advantages in both promotions, so as a fan I do not mind the fight possibilities that Fedor can immediately pursue with Strikeforce, even if I am disappointed he won't take on Lesnar in what would probably be the biggest match ever.

As for M-1, they're a business built on money, not legacies, so as I much as I dislike what they have done with Fedor Emelianenko, I can not fault it.



Let me just add that Fedor was gettting owned on the fett by AA. It seems that is the place to beat him. If Nog can't sub him who can?

Also I remember a day when Anderson Silva wasn't the best MW out their then the next thing you know Leban falls asleep and Rich Franklin follows. Just because one hasn't been the best dosn't mean they can't step it up.

Post #19   8/5/09 8:34:02AM   

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Fedor is trying to remain number 1 p4p by not facing top competition, but this time it won't work. Imagine GSP trying to be #1 welterweight by fighting in xfc or some small organization no one knows, it would not be possible. Fedor had a chance to prove he was the best by giving the fans what they really want, and he chose to be a big fish in a little pond. UFC HW division could be better but is still 2x as good as any other HW division. Fedor dropped far in my top 10 lists. Brett Rogers is good, but Mir would submit him in 20 seconds. Overeem is always injured and is rumored to be on roids like barnett is. Strikeforce makes up there league fight by fight, they seem even less stable with m-1 leaching revenues, and no one is excited by fedor fighting for strikeforce. Fedor is clearly more concerned with m-1's money and survival than his own sucess and survival. Fedor clearly did not give UFC a chance to bargain. If fedor was the best in the world he would put m-1's money aside and fight brock lesnar like we all wanted. I could care less about werdum vs fedor or overeem vs anyone for that matter.

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Post #20   8/5/09 10:01:54AM   

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Lol at people saying Fedor did this and Fedor did that, do you guys actually know what happened? juudging by your comments it looks like you don't.

Post #21   8/5/09 12:20:13PM   

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Posted by lohmann
He dominated a K-1 finalist handily, knocking him out fairly easily, and then took a three-time grand prix winner three rounds and may have won that fight if not for the knockdown in the final round. Combined with how terrible he made Cro Cop look before that fight was ruled a no contest, I do not think Overeem is the same fighter at heavyweight as he was at light heavyweight. He is a fearsome striker, but unlike the Cro Cops, Yvels, etc. out there, his grappling is not subpar (most of his wins coming via submission). I definitely think he's a top five talent at heavyweight, even if he's not ranked there. (It probably hurts my credibility that I am an Overeem nuthugger.) He and Lesnar I think are the two fighters that pose the most significant problems for Fedor.

The UFC has some exciting new matchups for Fedor, but most of their talent is still developing. The winner of Carwin/Velasquez, JDS should he beat Cro Cop, Couture if aging has not yet caught up with him, Mir if he puts together four or five wins in a row (which I would not bet on). That's not as favorable as Strikeforce, who offer Rogers, who knocked out Arlovski faster than Fedor did, Werdum and the ability to co-promote, getting Fedor into fights with Monson, Antonio Silva, and even Josh Barnett. I think there's advantages in both promotions, so as a fan I do not mind the fight possibilities that Fedor can immediately pursue with Strikeforce, even if I am disappointed he won't take on Lesnar in what would probably be the biggest match ever.

As for M-1, they're a business built on money, not legacies, so as I much as I dislike what they have done with Fedor Emelianenko, I can not fault it.



K-1 isn't MMA and would be like ranking a MMA fighter higher because how they do in a boxing match. Not saying he cant be good but he hasn't faced anyone that is top level yet. Overeem has always looked good against lesser competition but always fails at the tougher fights. Just because he was winning against CC doesn't mean that's how it would have ended as Overeem again always looks good out of the gate. But when it comes to later parts of the fight he fails to keep up and ends up getting KOed. Plus CC wasn't in the best of shape for that fight and had Knee surgery shortly after. On top of that CC also wasn't consider even a top 10 at the time and still isn't. CC hasn't looked good since 2006.

Now as far as M-1 goes what they are doing is exploiting their fighter. I can very much fault them for the blatant conflict of interest that's going on. Fedor's Manager owns a large part of M-1 and that in it self is very wrong. I don't think for a sec Fedor would have invested in M-1 if it wasn't for his manager who is set to gain off manipulating his fighter to join HIS promotion. If this was done under US law Fedor's manager would be in trouble.

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Post #22   8/5/09 3:47:00PM   

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I guess the whole "Fedor was getting owned by Arlovski" thing will never die.

Watch the fight in slow motion and count the number of punches that actually landed. The only person getting owned was the one unconscious face down on the floor.

Post #23   8/5/09 3:55:30PM   

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Posted by Aether

I guess the whole "Fedor was getting owned by Arlovski" thing will never die.

Watch the fight in slow motion and count the number of punches that actually landed. The only person getting owned was the one unconscious face down on the floor.



I have never watched that fight in slow mo but watched it about 5 times in regular speed Fedor had no answer to AA's hand speed and footwork. Fedor did what he does best and thats won the fight. I am a huge Fedor fan and love to watch him fight but you can not tell me had that round ended before the ko that AA didn't clearly have that round.

Post #24   8/5/09 6:59:17PM   

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I think Arlovski was outpointing him, but he was nowhere close to owning or dominating him the way that people keep saying. Andrei landed only a handful of strikes right before he got KOed. About half of the fight was spent in the clinch where neither fighter did much, then Andrei threw a good combo and got KOed. I had the same initial reaction when watching the fight, but after re-watching it in slow motion, the majority of the punches thrown either missed or were blocked.

I find it really strange how people view this fight. I mean I guess the guy has shown so little weakness that even being outpointed for a couple of minutes looks a lot different than it does for other fighters. I think if the exact same scenario went down and it was someone other than Fedor I don't think anyone would make the argument that AA was "owning" the fight.

Was he ahead? yeah, but only by a small margin, and he barely made it past the halfway mark of round 1.

Post #25   8/5/09 8:34:43PM   

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Now as far as M-1 goes what they are doing is exploiting their fighter. I can very much fault them for the blatant conflict of interest that's going on. Fedor's Manager owns a large part of M-1 and that in it self is very wrong. I don't think for a sec Fedor would have invested in M-1 if it wasn't for his manager who is set to gain off manipulating his fighter to join HIS promotion. If this was done under US law Fedor's manager would be in trouble.


I don't know the details of what is going on with the contracts... but I can think of a ton of boxers who are also co-owners of their promotion company. De La Hoya and Golden Boy is a good example.


As far as Overeem goes... you can't translate K-1 performance in to MMA, but you can watch a fighter and judge his talent. Overeem's rejuvenation began with his with over Buentello. In that fight he completely dominated... and has done so in each fight since. You can take his LHW record into account, but when you watch the fights it is obvious that he is not the same fighter that he was then. As far as not having a win over a top ten... maybe not but CC and Buentello are not far from there. Cain doesn't really have a win over a top ten either (unless someone thinks Kongo is top ten), but Cain is still in the top ten right now based on what he has shown against lesser competition. The difference in my mind is that where Cain is only 6-0 and deserves some more time to refine his game before he gets thrown in there with Fedor. Fedor has wrecked more than a couple careers with dominant victories. If I see Cain fight Fedor, I want to see the best Cain possible. The same really goes for Brock as well. Both of them are going to be better fighters in a couple years than they are now. Overeem on the other hand has nearly 30 wins over a career that spans back to the 2nd generation of fighters. He is at the prime of his career right now, and his size and skills present an interesting match-up. I'd have rather seen Fedor come to the UFC, but it is not like there is no talent outside of the UFC right now.

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Post #26   8/5/09 8:35:38PM   

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Posted by Aether

I think Arlovski was outpointing him, but he was nowhere close to owning or dominating him the way that people keep saying. Andrei landed only a handful of strikes right before he got KOed. About half of the fight was spent in the clinch where neither fighter did much, then Andrei threw a good combo and got KOed. I had the same initial reaction when watching the fight, but after re-watching it in slow motion, the majority of the punches thrown either missed or were blocked.

I find it really strange how people view this fight. I mean I guess the guy has shown so little weakness that even being outpointed for a couple of minutes looks a lot different than it does for other fighters. I think if the exact same scenario went down and it was someone other than Fedor I don't think anyone would make the argument that AA was "owning" the fight.

Was he ahead? yeah, but only by a small margin, and he barely made it past the halfway mark of round 1.



I have to agree with you Aether.
I hate to see this get brought up again though.
AA was beyond a shadow of a doubt,winning the round. And the first time I watched it onfold,I thought Fedor was really getten took to the cleaners.
I've watched the fight about 8-10 times now,and in the fight I will say this.
Both those guys threw some punches that had they connected,I think the other one would have been out cold for sure.
One thing I found very funny,was the fact that at one point Fedor throws a body shot strait on. No setup,but I guess you could argue their was a sense of miss direction.
AA followed up with a punch that came damn close to landing,and I think if it had,Fedor would have went lights out.

But in rewatching the fight,and rewatching again and again,the only concrete blow I can really attest to Arloski in the bout was the huge kick at the opening bell.
Other than that,up until Fedor knocked him out it was a lot of missed opprotunities on both sides. With AA being the aggresor.

"If I see Cain fight Fedor, I want to see the best Cain possible. The same really goes for Brock as well. Both of them are going to be better fighters in a couple years than they are now. Overeem on the other hand has nearly 30 wins over a career that spans back to the 2nd generation of fighters. He is at the prime of his career right now, and his size and skills present an interesting match-up. I'd have rather seen Fedor come to the UFC, but it is not like there is no talent outside of the UFC right now. "

Ncodrless,I got to agree with you.
Overeem has looked better than ever, and people have loosely been talking about this fight for a while now.
It would be a good one to see.

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Post #27   8/5/09 9:06:54PM   

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Posted by ncordless
I don't know the details of what is going on with the contracts... but I can think of a ton of boxers who are also co-owners of their promotion company. De La Hoya and Golden Boy is a good example.


As far as Overeem goes... you can't translate K-1 performance in to MMA, but you can watch a fighter and judge his talent. Overeem's rejuvenation began with his with over Buentello. In that fight he completely dominated... and has done so in each fight since. You can take his LHW record into account, but when you watch the fights it is obvious that he is not the same fighter that he was then. As far as not having a win over a top ten... maybe not but CC and Buentello are not far from there. Cain doesn't really have a win over a top ten either (unless someone thinks Kongo is top ten), but Cain is still in the top ten right now based on what he has shown against lesser competition. The difference in my mind is that where Cain is only 6-0 and deserves some more time to refine his game before he gets thrown in there with Fedor. Fedor has wrecked more than a couple careers with dominant victories. If I see Cain fight Fedor, I want to see the best Cain possible. The same really goes for Brock as well. Both of them are going to be better fighters in a couple years than they are now. Overeem on the other hand has nearly 30 wins over a career that spans back to the 2nd generation of fighters. He is at the prime of his career right now, and his size and skills present an interesting match-up. I'd have rather seen Fedor come to the UFC, but it is not like there is no talent outside of the UFC right now.



Your right some boxers do own part of their promotions they fight for but that doesn't mean their managers own the controlling majority of said promotion. That's the hole problem right there.

Well judging someone skills in a stand up only fight is hard to do because you can only base it stand up without the worry of a take down. Its hole different ball game when you have to deal with the clinch and take downs guys controlling you against the ropes or cage drains most fighters very fast. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying he is a bad fighter but I think people are over rating of his ability with very limited info. Buentello isn't much to judge off of because he isn't going to take you down and if you have better stand up Buentello always kinds of wilts. We cant judge much from the CC fight because it was far from over and CC was far from 100% and the fact the Overeem kneed him in the balls countless times we don't have much to go off of but basically about 4 mins. Which we agree that Overeem always looks good the first few mins.
Now not saying Fedor couldn't loss to Overeem or that it wouldn't be a good fight I'm just saying people seam to be overrating his ability from the info we have. Now I would be happy for him to prove me wrong but the last time he faced a top 10 fighter he got KOed and the time before that he also got KOed.

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Post #28   8/5/09 9:35:15PM   

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I'm not Russian but I'm sure there are a lot of cultural differences as well. Dana talks A LOT of trash. I wonder if Fedor is giving him the bird for talking it. Fedor has 3 more fights with M-1, its not like he could get out of that even if he didn't have an interest in the success of M-1.

I think he'll still end up in the UFc....in 1 year. Dana will bash him like crazy for a whole year heap piles of garbage on him and hope that it detracts from the myth. (newsflash:it's working---for Americans). But then when he gets his chance to get his hands on him and pull him away from M-1, he'll try to and if he gets him he'll hype him UP HUGE. Especially if he wins. Fedor does conduct himself with class and respect....but he doesn't speak English. (see Silva's problems with fans).

Post #29   8/5/09 11:27:08PM   

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Posted by EliasG
Fedor does conduct himself with class and respect....but he doesn't speak English. (see Silva's problems with fans).



I've heard numerous fighters say is English is fine. There's backstage footage of him and other guys talking.
Timmy publicly said he thought he keeps to Russian b/c it adds to his mystique. He might just not want make mistakes ("I want to F$%K Chuck") and embarrass himself.

Post #30   8/6/09 3:39:19AM   
 
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