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Dan Henderson: Brock Lesnar Will Be Unstoppable, Didn't Earn Title Shot

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Brock Lesnar will fight Frank Mir in the main event at UFC 100 in a contest that could establish Lesnar as not only the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion but also the undisputed biggest star in UFC history. But one longtime MMA star, Dan Henderson, thinks Lesnar has been pushed to the forefront too quickly.

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Post #1   6/27/09 8:36:52AM   

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The writer pretty much sums it up


My feeling about Lesnar is that it's true he hadn't earned his shot at the UFC heavyweight title when he stepped into the Octagon against Randy Couture at UFC 91 -- except that Lesnar proved by beating Couture that he did, in fact, belong. So while I think Henderson is basically right that Lesnar got his title shot based on reputation and pay-per-view sales, he earned the title by beating Couture. And with Mir up next, Lesnar is one win away from having erased any questions about his legitimacy once and for all.


That's almost exactly how I feel about Lesnar.

Post #2   6/27/09 10:10:18AM   

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if he beats mir and he will
i don't see anyone stopping this guy for awhile

Post #3   6/27/09 10:15:00AM   

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Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment

Post #4   6/27/09 10:31:17AM   

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Posted by Jackelope

The writer pretty much sums it up


My feeling about Lesnar is that it's true he hadn't earned his shot at the UFC heavyweight title when he stepped into the Octagon against Randy Couture at UFC 91 -- except that Lesnar proved by beating Couture that he did, in fact, belong. So while I think Henderson is basically right that Lesnar got his title shot based on reputation and pay-per-view sales, he earned the title by beating Couture. And with Mir up next, Lesnar is one win away from having erased any questions about his legitimacy once and for all.


That's almost exactly how I feel about Lesnar.



I gotta agree

Post #5   6/27/09 10:57:17AM   

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Posted by mkiv9secsupra

Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment



Who Kongo? The man would get taken down by Lesnar and annihilated. Big Nog? He would get KOed and Lesnar's wrestling and (hopefully jits defense) would nullify Nog's abilities on the mat.

Te only two heavyweights I see challenging Lesnar right now, besides Mir of course, would be Carwin and Velasquez for obvious reasons; they are big and powerful and won't be bullied on the ground.

Post #6   6/27/09 11:28:27AM   

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Posted by warglory


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment



Who Kongo? The man would get taken down by Lesnar and annihilated. Big Nog? He would get KOed and Lesnar's wrestling and (hopefully jits defense) would nullify Nog's abilities on the mat.

Te only two heavyweights I see challenging Lesnar right now, besides Mir of course, would be Carwin and Velasquez for obvious reasons; they are big and powerful and won't be bullied on the ground.



Cain is a great wrestler, but he is not that big for a HW.

Also, why is it that Nog gets KOed once in his career and now it is certain that he would get KOed against Lesnar. I think you gave yourself away when you said that you hoped his jits defense would be good enough to stop Nog's sub attempts.

I hope a lot of things. I hope that Wandy learns to throw straight punches. I hope that Gurgel goes for a takedown. I hope that Kevin Randleman tries to become a more complete MMA fighter and I hope that Jake Rosholt learns how to block a punch. All those things would be nice but I definitely wouldn't use one in my reasoning for why that fighter will win.

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Post #7   6/27/09 12:04:49PM   

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Posted by warglory


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment



Who Kongo? The man would get taken down by Lesnar and annihilated. Big Nog? He would get KOed and Lesnar's wrestling and (hopefully jits defense) would nullify Nog's abilities on the mat.

Te only two heavyweights I see challenging Lesnar right now, besides Mir of course, would be Carwin and Velasquez for obvious reasons; they are big and powerful and won't be bullied on the ground.



MMAPG's top 10 HWs
1.Fedor Emelianenko
2.Frank Mir
3.Josh Barnett
4. Lesnar
5.Nogueira
6.Couture
7.Carwin
8.Valasquez
9.Overeem
10.Arlovski

Kongo IS NOT in the top 10 and i agree lesnar would make a fool out of him unless brock decided to stand for some reason.

-#1,#2,#3,#5 have such a massive overall grappling advantage Lesnar doesnt stand much of a chance imo.
-Carwin would KO Lesnar 1st round
-Valsquez and Overeem have a massive advantage striking and could nullify Lesnars ground advances and force Lesnar to LnP

The only two top ten i could see Lesnar beating are Couture and Arlovski

just my opinion..... Lesnar's only wins are from stylistically good match ups for him. He still isnt a good striker by any means, and we havent seen anything in the form of subs/defense. We still dont know if he has a decent gas tank....Too many holes to say he is any kind unstoppable force

Post #8   6/27/09 12:25:18PM   

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Posted by mkiv9secsupra


MMAPG's top 10 HWs
1.Fedor Emelianenko
2.Frank Mir
3.Josh Barnett
4. Lesnar
5.Nogueira
6.Couture
7.Carwin
8.Valasquez
9.Overeem
10.Arlovski

Kongo IS NOT in the top 10 and i agree lesnar would make a fool out of him unless brock decided to stand for some reason.

-#1,#2,#3,#5 have such a massive overall grappling advantage Lesnar doesnt stand much of a chance imo.
-Carwin would KO Lesnar 1st round
-Valsquez and Overeem have a massive advantage striking and could nullify Lesnars ground advances and force Lesnar to LnP

The only two top ten i could see Lesnar beating are Couture and Arlovski

just my opinion..... Lesnar's only wins are from stylistically good match ups for him. He still isnt a good striker by any means, and we havent seen anything in the form of subs/defense. We still dont know if he has a decent gas tank....Too many holes to say he is any kind unstoppable force




Mir: Lesnar will beat him standing, and when it does goes to the ground from Mir pulling guard or Lesnar going in for the finish... Lesnar will be far more controlling rather than just trying to donky kong his opponent. I guarantee you lesnar has been drilling sub defense like no other since his first loss and barring an out of left field highlight submission.. lesnar will unify the belts.

Nog: It may have been the staph infection that was rumored, but he looked slack against Mir and one thing that a lot of people are (including myself) speculating is that all the damage he takes every fight is catching up with him. If Mir could knock him down... Lesnar would blast him.

Barnett: would get bullied.. simple as that.

Carwin: would get KOed by lesnar in the first round. Carwin is the only fighter with the same size, and strength advantages as lesnar and who also packs the KO power that comes with XXXXXL gloves. But Carwin gets rocked in almost every one of his fights by hws who are considerably smaller... lesnar would hand his punch and it would be lights out. Also if lesnar decided to... he would be able to dominate on the ground as well because Lesnar is a far better wrestler.

Velasquez has a massive striking advantage? did you see him try to strike with Kongo? Kongo has great standup... but kongo has never been able to embarass anybody on the feet like that in the ufc. Velasquez's standup looks good and sounds cool.. but lesnar would have a distinct advantage on the ground and the ability to get it there

Overeem shouldn't be in this conversation before he competes where he gets tested and beats a top 10.

The only fighter on that list that should be a legitimate favourite is Fedor.. and thats because his style of standup would probably give lesnar trouble... and even if lesnar did get it to the ground, fedor's submission game would probably prevail.

What people dont give brock credit for right now is how effective his standup is. He doesn't have the boxing skills of arlovski or the head movement of couture, but he has what looks like a very solid chin, quick punches, and his hands are so big and he's so strong that if he lands, you're gone. Seriously... look at the punches he's landed standing up... he knocked down mir, broke herring's orbital bone and sent him rolling backwards, and rocked couture twice.... the doode's standup isn't textbook, but every fighter that steps in with him needs to respect it. With that said, right off the bat, i would give the standup advantage to lesnar over every fighter on the top 10 list aside from fedor and that's because fedor's speed and style is something that lesnar would struggle with

With that said, it kinda makes you think that lesnar could sprawl and brawl his way to victory against almost any opponent which is a scary thought considering how hard he hits and how impossible it would be to take him down

Post #9   6/27/09 1:31:09PM   

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Posted by mkiv9secsupra

Lesnar will be unstoppable at some point but he has soooooo many holes in his game that i can see almost any top HW beat him at the moment



I train a lot of Pro fighters and I don't see many holes in his game at all so I would like to know what holes you speak of.

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Post #10   6/27/09 1:36:45PM   

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Henderson earned a title shot by losing. Lesnar at least got a shot coming off of a win.

Post #11   6/27/09 2:42:50PM   

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Posted by wapttn


Posted by mkiv9secsupra


MMAPG's top 10 HWs
1.Fedor Emelianenko
2.Frank Mir
3.Josh Barnett
4. Lesnar
5.Nogueira
6.Couture
7.Carwin
8.Valasquez
9.Overeem
10.Arlovski

Kongo IS NOT in the top 10 and i agree lesnar would make a fool out of him unless brock decided to stand for some reason.

-#1,#2,#3,#5 have such a massive overall grappling advantage Lesnar doesnt stand much of a chance imo.
-Carwin would KO Lesnar 1st round
-Valsquez and Overeem have a massive advantage striking and could nullify Lesnars ground advances and force Lesnar to LnP

The only two top ten i could see Lesnar beating are Couture and Arlovski

just my opinion..... Lesnar's only wins are from stylistically good match ups for him. He still isnt a good striker by any means, and we havent seen anything in the form of subs/defense. We still dont know if he has a decent gas tank....Too many holes to say he is any kind unstoppable force




Mir: Lesnar will beat him standing, and when it does goes to the ground from Mir pulling guard or Lesnar going in for the finish... Lesnar will be far more controlling rather than just trying to donky kong his opponent. I guarantee you lesnar has been drilling sub defense like no other since his first loss and barring an out of left field highlight submission.. lesnar will unify the belts.

Nog: It may have been the staph infection that was rumored, but he looked slack against Mir and one thing that a lot of people are (including myself) speculating is that all the damage he takes every fight is catching up with him. If Mir could knock him down... Lesnar would blast him.

Barnett: would get bullied.. simple as that.

Carwin: would get KOed by lesnar in the first round. Carwin is the only fighter with the same size, and strength advantages as lesnar and who also packs the KO power that comes with XXXXXL gloves. But Carwin gets rocked in almost every one of his fights by hws who are considerably smaller... lesnar would hand his punch and it would be lights out. Also if lesnar decided to... he would be able to dominate on the ground as well because Lesnar is a far better wrestler.

Velasquez has a massive striking advantage? did you see him try to strike with Kongo? Kongo has great standup... but kongo has never been able to embarass anybody on the feet like that in the ufc. Velasquez's standup looks good and sounds cool.. but lesnar would have a distinct advantage on the ground and the ability to get it there

Overeem shouldn't be in this conversation before he competes where he gets tested and beats a top 10.

The only fighter on that list that should be a legitimate favourite is Fedor.. and thats because his style of standup would probably give lesnar trouble... and even if lesnar did get it to the ground, fedor's submission game would probably prevail.

What people dont give brock credit for right now is how effective his standup is. He doesn't have the boxing skills of arlovski or the head movement of couture, but he has what looks like a very solid chin, quick punches, and his hands are so big and he's so strong that if he lands, you're gone. Seriously... look at the punches he's landed standing up... he knocked down mir, broke herring's orbital bone and sent him rolling backwards, and rocked couture twice.... the doode's standup isn't textbook, but every fighter that steps in with him needs to respect it. With that said, right off the bat, i would give the standup advantage to lesnar over every fighter on the top 10 list aside from fedor and that's because fedor's speed and style is something that lesnar would struggle with

With that said, it kinda makes you think that lesnar could sprawl and brawl his way to victory against almost any opponent which is a scary thought considering how hard he hits and how impossible it would be to take him down




beautiful analysis... I ha ve to agree with everything you said as I could not put it into better words.. only thing I could add would be agaisnt Carwin.. He is the only one with the same advantages as borck and would be a great test of brocks chin.. but I do not think he could stop Brocks take down and thats where Brock would dominate him..

Post #12   6/27/09 2:46:40PM   

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Posted by Giant_Ochai Henderson earned a title shot by losing. Lesnar at least got a shot coming off of a win.
Umm...no. Henderson got a shot because he held both the Pride Middleweight and Welterweight(not sure if that's what they called it) titles. He lost the middleweight title in a unification bout to Rampage(awesome 5 round war), dropped down to 185 where he's more comfortable and lost his unification bout to Anderson, who he was dominating for the first round and decided to try and bang with Silva. Brock didn't deserve it at the time, but proved he belongs by decimating Couture.

Post #13   6/27/09 3:21:17PM   

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The Lesnar hate is getting so stale, I agree he should have had more fights but at this point it's just beating a dead horse.

From here on out he's going to fight so moving on to this week, Lesnar keeps improving, like daily. Thats got to be scary for Mir who was a few seconds from lala land and managed to capitalize on a rookie mistake and sub him. Its my opinion he wont be easy to sub this time and his striking keeps looking better.

I have a no clue why anyone would pick Velasquez over Lesnar, its just not happening lol.

Shane Carwin has a puncher chance I guess but his chin doesn't look all that solid and Brock I would assume enjoys a fairly large reach advantage but then thats just stand up why brake down all that when we know he would be able to take shane down and pound him out?

We are still talking about the UFC here right? I mean there is no real reason to toss around names that we know will never fight Brock like Fedor and Barnett so in the UFC I only think there are a handful of real challengers Nogueira, Mir and Gonzaga, just because Gabe has some tools that "IF" used correctly could cause Brock some issues but Im not saying he would win.

Assuming he beats Mir, If I had to pick a Brock killer its Nogueira all the way and after that I would not be shocked to see Brock walk over the rest of the division but then I feel its still a weak HW division.


Ive said this before, did he deserve the opportunity? No.
Dose he deserve the title? absolutely, no matter how he got there he beat the champion to get it.

Posted by wapttn
Velasquez's standup looks good and sounds cool.. but lesnar would have a distinct advantage on the ground and the ability to get it there



I cant follow you there, its a proven fact that 99.9% of the time when two really good wrestlers get together its always a stand up war. I do think Brock would win that war but I dont see him just tossing Velasquez to the ground at will.

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Post #14   6/27/09 4:46:07PM   

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Posted by telnights

I train a lot of Pro fighters and I don't see many holes in his game at all so I would like to know what holes you speak of.



Not that you made this post directed at me, but here are a few holes in Lesnar's game that I've personally noticed-

#1- Of course, it's footwork. It's gotten better, but his first couple of fights he was definitely stutter stepping a lot.

#2- Leaving his neck hanging in the open on takedown attempts

#3- He learned this lesson the hard way, but he still needs to be careful of his legs IMO. If he tries to ride on Mir like he rode on Herring, Mir will have no problem reaching under, grabbing a leg, and rolling. I'm 99.9% positive that this is something Lesnar has worked on, though.

All in all his game is improving very quickly, though. I still think he has holes to exploit, but they're getting smaller and smaller. His nerves were WAYYY better in the Couture fight. Against Mir he looked like an absolute wreck, so he obviously addressed that. I think some things like a lot of lateral movement on the feet to make Lesnar chase his opponent and hit air could do a lot of good. He tends to load punches and lean his chin over his foot a little bit too.

I think there is still so much we haven't seen of Brock Lesnar. Both good and bad. I'm willing to bet that an experienced fighter who can somewhat dictate where the fight takes place and take a punch or two could expose a lot of holes. Then again, I would hate to see Lesnar in full mount on somebody, and that's something we haven't seen yet that could be devastating.

Post #15   6/27/09 8:16:01PM   
 
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