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UFC 104 Shogun VS. Machida
UFC 104 Shogun VS. Machida |
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warglory
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 465-318
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Portland, ME
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Posted by slapshot
Posted by warglory
Posted by slapshot
What the heck are you guys talking about? Lets get some inaccuracy's corrected, a punch drunk over the hill Liddell is still top 10 in the UFC and he could put away 3/4 of the division. So a win over liddell is still relevant even though its not what it meant four years ago.
I respect your opinion and all, but Liddell is clearly no longer top 10 material, all of his fights since losing to Jackson have shown that. You have to win to maintain your status, history can't maintain your status forever. If he could beat 75% of the division, he needs to start showing us, because at this point in his career, he hasn't demonstrated that.
Name them, name 10 205ers that without question should be ranked higher than Liddell and are in the UFC....
In no particular order:
Quinton Jackson
Keith Jardine
Forest Griffin
Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida
Shogun Rua
Thiago Silva
Luiz Cane
Rich Franklin
Matt Hamill
Every one of these fighters has a better record in the last two years than Chuck Liddell (or in Shogun's case, just KOed him). All of Chuck's past accomplishments are essentially null and void, because everyone in this division is a gamer and needs to prove themselves to survive, including the legends. Chuck has shown he can't hack it in this division anymore, and would likely lose to all of these guys except for MAYBE Thiago Silva.
If Chuck was in virtually any other division except for maybe lightweight, he would potentially be top 10.
Last edited 6/8/09 6:20PM by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a
2 total post edits
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Post #46 6/8/09 6:14:56PM
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slapshot
In Full Mount
Career record: 426-258
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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Posted by warglory
Posted by slapshot
Name them, name 10 205ers that without question should be ranked higher than Liddell and are in the UFC....
In no particular order:
Quinton Jackson
Keith Jardine
Forest Griffin
Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida
Shogun Rua
Thiago Silva
Luiz Cane
Rich Franklin
Matt Hamill
Every one of these fighters has a better record in the last two years than Chuck Liddell (or in Shogun's case, just KOed him). All of Chuck's past accomplishments are essentially null and void, because everyone in this division is a gamer and needs to prove themselves to survive, including the legends. Chuck has shown he can't hack it in this division anymore, and would likely lose to all of these guys except for MAYBE Thiago Silva.
If Chuck was in virtually any other division except for maybe lightweight, he would potentially be top 10.
Hamil, franklin and cane? come on now. You cant null and void a record that simply is valid no matter how hard you hate. The only one of the three you can make a case for is Franklin and you would have to use his past record in a lower weight class. TBH I can see Chuck ko'n all three of them and being very competitive with Keith Jardine and Forest Griffin as well.
The fact is most people here dont agree with you and rank Chuck at 9th in the UFC. a quarter of your list is not even ranked at all, much less higher than Chuck so clearly he is top ten material in the majority of fans eyes...
Last edited 6/8/09 7:41PM by slapshot
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #47 6/8/09 7:40:52PM
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warglory
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 465-318
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Portland, ME
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Posted by slapshot
Posted by warglory
Posted by slapshot
Name them, name 10 205ers that without question should be ranked higher than Liddell and are in the UFC....
In no particular order:
Quinton Jackson
Keith Jardine
Forest Griffin
Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida
Shogun Rua
Thiago Silva
Luiz Cane
Rich Franklin
Matt Hamill
Every one of these fighters has a better record in the last two years than Chuck Liddell (or in Shogun's case, just KOed him). All of Chuck's past accomplishments are essentially null and void, because everyone in this division is a gamer and needs to prove themselves to survive, including the legends. Chuck has shown he can't hack it in this division anymore, and would likely lose to all of these guys except for MAYBE Thiago Silva.
If Chuck was in virtually any other division except for maybe lightweight, he would potentially be top 10.
Hamil, franklin and cane? come on now. You cant null and void a record that simply is valid no matter how hard you hate. The only one of the three you can make a case for is Franklin and you would have to use his past record in a lower weight class. TBH I can see Chuck ko'n all three of them and being very competitive with Keith Jardine and Forest Griffin as well.
The fact is most people here dont agree with you and rank Chuck at 9th in the UFC. a quarter of your list is not even ranked at all, much less higher than Chuck so clearly he is top ten material in the majority of fans eyes...
I'm not hating on Chuck, I am examining facts. Chuck has only won 1 fight out of his last 5 against Wanderlei Silva who is in equally tough circumstances. All the top level competition Chuck has fought, which has been those other 4 losses, he has lost hands down with 3 (T)KOs and a decision against Keith that should have been unanimous. Franklin, you're right, he hasn't fought as much at 205, but his showing against Hamill shows that he deserves to be in the mix, much more than Chuck at this point. People maintain Chuck as a top 10 fighter becaue of his mystique and nothing more. Facts are facts, and if Chuck was any other fighter, he would have been out of the UFC by now.
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Post #48 6/8/09 8:25:19PM
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Metafour
MMA Regular
Career record: 798-433
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Toronto
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I think Shogun has the best shot of any LHW at beating Machida at this time. I still do not think he will end up pulling it off though.
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Post #49 6/8/09 10:15:24PM
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Remember Paul Herrera
Career record: 1017-538
Season: 20-4 (#60)
Location: You think you can tell heaven from hell?
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Out of Franklin, Cane, and T. Silva - Thiago is the only one i can see Chuck beating the majority of the time.
Franklin mixes up his strikes well and should fluster Chuck in the same manner that Jardine did.
Cane has an accurate(albeit not so fast) outside power punching style, He throws straight punches and lands them when he does throw. Its going to come down to Liddell's wider punches going against Cane's chin, and Canes down the pipe punches against Liddell's chin. Smart money is on Cane in this one.
Not to mention that Cane has kicks to use as well.
Thiago's affinity for getting hit while coming in, is exactly why chuck would beat thiago a vast majority of the time. Dude just doesnt cover up, and although his GnP is absolutely vicious with the top control to keep himself in mount, hes not going to get chuck on his back before getting Ko'd.
_______________________________________
BJ Penn beat Frankie Edgar more times than Benson Henderson beat Frankie Edgar.
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Post #50 6/8/09 10:24:47PM
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mkiv9secsupra
MMA Sensei
Career record: 664-440
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: ATL, GA
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Im not going to say Liddell is, without a doubt, top ten at this point, but the way everyone talks about him as such a washed up fighter after losing to Rampage, former light heavy weight champion, rashad evans, former light heavy weight champion, Mauricio Rua, 2005 PRIDE grand prix champion, and Keith Jardine, annual top contender, is a bit unfair to say the least. Hamill, Franklin, Thiago, and Cane i believe would all fall victim to the same fate as Liddell. Only time will tell and i hope to see Liddell one more time vs Franklin or Forrest for his last fight........flame on 
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Post #51 6/9/09 12:57:02AM
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deezyo
MMA Regular
Career record: 689-523
Season: 6-2 (#2028)
Location: OHIO
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shogun will win
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Post #52 6/9/09 5:55:35PM
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