Most people are going to say Brock. I want Mir to win, and I'm a fan of his, but I gotta admit I can see why people would pick Brock.
If Brock plays it smart and is able to land some of those heavy fists on the feet he can definitely take it. If he decides to play on the ground, well, he's still entering an area he's liable to find his defeat in.
Frank is big, so he should be able to do a bit more damage on the feet than Randy, but how is he going to nullify those power shots from Brock? Randy's gameplan was obviously to smother Brock to take away his power, but Randy is an olympic level Greco Roman wrestler, so he can handle Brock in the clinch. Can Frank? I don't know.
I'm hoping Frank takes this one, but I'm not so sure.
_______________________________________ "It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
Brock will give more respect to Mir's ground game and may try to stand but Mir has decent stand up of his own Brock may instinctively go for a take down or Mir just need to get a hold of him and pull guard and the start working for a sub
the thing i love about Mir is his a finisher once he gets a holds of something he tries to rip it off or break it like his life depends on it
This, specifically, is something I take issue with. What is, and how in God's name does someone pull off a "miracle sub"? I could sort of, somehow, somewhat understand a "miracle KO" but a miracle sub? It doesn't even make sense. It's not like you throw up a rear naked choke on a prayer and someone steps into it or something.
_______________________________________ "It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
This, specifically, is something I take issue with. What is, and how in God's name does someone pull off a "miracle sub"? I could sort of, somehow, somewhat understand a "miracle KO" but a miracle sub? It doesn't even make sense. It's not like you throw up a rear naked choke on a prayer and someone steps into it or something.
I TOTALLY AGREE It takes real skill and poise to be getting pounded and still come through with a submission like frank did. on topic though i think frank will b more ready for Brock this time and i would like to see Frank win. Brock will be a major factor in this sport someday cuz of the way he trains and he is pretty young and already has a hellacious wrestling background. Go Frank!
I'm going with Lesnar by tko as well, though this fight worries me. Mir showed some dangerous striking against Nog and his sub game has almost always been world class. Despite how the first fight went down, I agree that Lesnar will probably respect Mir's ground game more this time around and be able to get the tko. Either way, I dont see this fight going very long.
I think you need to chill a bit i didn't mean that it requires any less skill, i used that term because i think that when you have a guy as big as Lesnar pounding you in the face, and if by use of your own SKILL and opportunity you get a submission, i only call this a miracle sub because while it takes skill, the opportunity has to be there, same for a miracle KO. If you're losing the entire fight and you happen to be in the right place at the right time, and use your skills to throw the right punch, i still consider that to be a miracle KO. I think i used the wrong term, but i also think you are barking up the wrong tree because i agree with you, i think my short post with lack of detail led me to be misconstrued in a way that was not intended.
brock has had plenty of time to train how to keep his drumsticks out of leglocks and i think people are overrating mir's standup when it was against a less than 100% minotauro i still see this fight being another of brock's wins via being powerful
I think you need to chill a bit i didn't mean that it requires any less skill, i used that term because i think that when you have a guy as big as Lesnar pounding you in the face, and if by use of your own SKILL and opportunity you get a submission, i only call this a miracle sub because while it takes skill, the opportunity has to be there, same for a miracle KO. If you're losing the entire fight and you happen to be in the right place at the right time, and use your skills to throw the right punch, i still consider that to be a miracle KO. I think i used the wrong term, but i also think you are barking up the wrong tree because i agree with you, i think my short post with lack of detail led me to be misconstrued in a way that was not intended.
I still don't understand why people say things like this. Sometimes you have to put yourself into a dangerous position in order to do your thing. It's a risk/reward type thing. I think when people say things like "miracle sub" or "miracle KO" they're insulting the fighters who have put in a TON of work to reach the level they're at.
I mean, can you possibly explain to me how a person like Frank Mir, who has been a martial artist his whole life, having fought in the UFC several times and even held the HW belt gets lucky when he's facing a guy who has a couple of MMA bouts?
It's insulting to Frank Mir for people to say things like "miracle sub". You may have chosen your words incorrectly (which is something apparently you're fond of doing) but the underlying sentiments of what you really mean are still there.
Let me ask you this- If someone was given 1 minute to beat on someone, and they did that but were unable to finish, how would they compare to a person who was given 5 seconds to beat on someone and they nearly broke their leg and in doing so finished the fight? The fact is, they both had their opportunities, and CLEARLY Frank Mir was more skilled and/or proficient at capitalizing on his opportunity. That is how you determine skill. It is creating or seizing opportunities, and capitalizing in either situation. Noguiera has been beaten to a bloody pulp so many times in his career, but all it ever took was his opponents making one mistake. Bang, he'd capitalize. Because he's got skill.
Brock has natural talent and ability, but the fact was at that time he had little to no MMA skill. His natural abilities placed him in an advantageous position to start the fight, but his lack of experience landed him in a position that he was beaten in. (which you would apparently attribute to Frank Mir's "miracle" luck)
Times have changed, though. I'm not so sure the fight will pan out the same this time around since Brock has obviously gained some experience and more skill this time around. If Frank did pull out the victory, though, the last thing I would call it is any form of luck. Unless a random meteorite crashed through the arena and onto Brock Lesnar.
Last edited 4/28/09 9:27AM by Jackelope Edit note/reason: n/a
_______________________________________ "It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
This is really a hard fight to call. Mir showed improved striking against Nog, who has great boxing skills. Though the first fight Brock never went for a takedown. He knocked Mir down with strikes, twice. Grats to Mir for showing great poise and working a submission through all that heat he was getting. However the fight was in real danger of getting stopped. Mir was hurt, no doubt about it. That knee-bar wasn't the tightest in the world either. Brock could possibly have rolled out of it. I remember screaming "ROLL ROLL ROLL" at the television.
i think mir takes based on him having faster hands and just more skilled standup brocks big but hes an arm puncher and i think frank can out box him then obvously when getting beat on the feet brock will go to what he know take frank down and get subbed
or i could be wrong and brock kos frank on a big shot i hope not but its a real chance
I'm also pulling for Mir. I expect this fight will happen mostly on the feet. I think both guys lost the fight on the ground the first time, in a manner of speaking. I don't think Mir will be able to take Lesnar down, and if Lesnar takes Mir down, I think he's playing into Mir's strength and would get submitted again. I think the best Lesnar could do on the ground is stall until he can get back to his feet (or until the referee stands them up).
One thing that I haven't seen in Lesnar's arsenal is kicks. I think he can afford to throw kicks more than Mir can, because of his wrestling advantage. Lesnar might have the edge in power, but I think he's already recognized that aggressiveness is less of an advantage with every successive fight, so I think it's unlikely he'll catch Mir the way he caught Heath Herring.
I think this will be a boxing match, with Lesnar the more likely to score a TKO and Mir more likely to win a Decision. I'm not sure yet which one I'll actually predict, but I'm leaning towards the latter right now.
I think with everything, there needs to be opportunity as well the person in the fight needs to have skill, it is a marriage of both. If a JJ wizard is fighting a guy who is good at everything, for example, and is unable to secure the sub, i don't consider the guy having any less skill but never found himself in an OPPORTUNITY to finish, I consider this unlucky. I think that luck always has has a part to play in all sports, no matter what it is. I think that no matter what i say, im going to wrong to you and my point will not get across, so im just going to leave it at this. Though i don't appreciate you telling me for one reason or another that i am fond of choosing my words poorly. An opinion is an opinion. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Last edited 4/28/09 2:05PM by fizzle Edit note/reason: n/a
I think a miracle sub is what happened the first fight. Brock was well on his wayh to winning the fight and stood up for some reason and gave mir his foot.
I dont see why everyone counts brock out on the ground, the last fight was mostly on the ground and lesnar was not in any kind of trouble until he gave him his foot. I think brocks wrestling nullifies mirs jj. he couldnt do anything last time while both were on the ground and he wont be able to this time
