Concern grows over MMA officiating |
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MMAcca
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 944-552
Season: 20-4 (#104)
Location: North East of England
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Dave Meltzer's latest piece. Definately worth a read:
“[Kizer] knows my opinion,” said White. “He has no answer. He doesn’t want to hear from me.” “Steve Mazzagatti is a great referee,” said Kizer. White was critical of Mazzagatti for a late stoppage in the Dec. 27 fight with Cheick Kongo beating Mostapha Al-Turk, in a match in which both sustained low blows. “I’m going to tell the fighters they can turn down referees and it’s in their hands if they want a ref who may end up getting them hurt in a match,” said White, who noted that both Anthony Johnson and Randy Couture have turned down Mazzagatti to officiate recent matches when assigned. Until the day arrives in which mixed martial arts has enough top-notch referees to go around, such the ability to turn down a referee may be the fighter’s safest option.
LINK
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Post #1 3/15/09 8:06:16AM
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Solidus
MMA Regular
Career record: 987-557
Season: 16-8 (#920)
Location: WV
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Have Big John McCarthy officiate every fight lol
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Post #2 3/15/09 10:09:48AM
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Mayo
Standup Guy
Career record: 254-177
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Chicago
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You raise an interesting point Solidus.... why do they need several refs per UFC event? Why not just cut refs who aren't performing... same way they cut fighters who aren't performing? If you switch to using just two refs per event, then you aren't stretched thin on quality refs. I mean I work 40 hours a week. UFC events run about 5 hours per event and occur about once a month. I know the refs need to be "fresh" so they can focus. But why can't two quality refs alternate reffing fights throughout a single event?
And hey if the bad reffing is ruining the sport then pay Big John McCarthy a six figure contract to come back. Money talks, I'm sure he'd go for that. Give refs bonuses for good reffing. Spending money like this is actually cheaper than having the sport ruined by bad reffing and then you gradually lose your audience and revenue.
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Post #3 3/15/09 11:08:58AM
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ColonDiver
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 614-343
Season: 11-1 (#1634)
Location:
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i didnt know fighters could turn down refs, i figured they might be able to but wasn't sure. All refs make mistakes and there has been a lot of new refs in the UFC, they should just keep a regular crew but w.e
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Post #4 3/15/09 1:51:49PM
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Boo_Radley21
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 573-405
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Ontario
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Haha they turned down Mazagatti. I agree though that I don't think there need to be so many refs per event.
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Post #5 3/15/09 1:57:37PM
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Wolf
MMA Regular
Career record: 371-242
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted by Mayo
You raise an interesting point Solidus.... why do they need several refs per UFC event? Why not just cut refs who aren't performing... same way they cut fighters who aren't performing? If you switch to using just two refs per event, then you aren't stretched thin on quality refs. I mean I work 40 hours a week. UFC events run about 5 hours per event and occur about once a month. I know the refs need to be "fresh" so they can focus. But why can't two quality refs alternate reffing fights throughout a single event?
And hey if the bad reffing is ruining the sport then pay Big John McCarthy a six figure contract to come back. Money talks, I'm sure he'd go for that. Give refs bonuses for good reffing. Spending money like this is actually cheaper than having the sport ruined by bad reffing and then you gradually lose your audience and revenue.
the refs aren't on the UFC's payroll. They get hired and paid by the state athletic commission. The UFC can recommend refs, but they don't get to say who works their shows.
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Post #6 3/15/09 2:06:33PM
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Bloodhound
Standup Guy
Career record: 861-492
Season: 21-3 (#151)
Location: Las Vegas by way of Brooklyn, NY
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let John McCarthy & Herb Dean do all the fights, problem solved
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Post #7 3/15/09 2:26:43PM
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LakieMan
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-16
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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Posted by Solidus
Have Big John McCarthy officiate every fight lol
Not a bad idea.lol
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Post #8 3/15/09 3:04:24PM
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Wolf
MMA Regular
Career record: 371-242
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted by Bloodhound
let John McCarthy & Herb Dean do all the fights, problem solved
i like herb, but he's had his fair share of bad stoppages too.
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Post #9 3/15/09 5:33:42PM
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lohmann
A Black Belt in Jiu-Jitsu
Career record: 849-469
Season: 19-5 (#209)
Location: United States
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Posted by Wolf
Posted by Bloodhound
let John McCarthy & Herb Dean do all the fights, problem solved
i like herb, but he's had his fair share of bad stoppages too.
Even though he's better than most, I think Herb Dean's problems are the point deductions he issued during the Marquardt/Leites fight and the way he catered to Filipovic in his fight against Gonzaga (which didn't work in the end  ). I don't think stoppages have been his problem.
I actually think Yves Lavigne is a good referee too. He usually errs on the side of letting the fight go on instead of calling it early, and I think Sell/Brown was the first time he let the fight obviously continue well beyond the appropriate time to stop it. It's likely the Riley/Nelson stoppage earlier may have effected his judgment. His inability to see when a fighter is in danger on the ground (Hazelett/Sariava) seems to be well gone; he knows when to stand fighters up and break guys up.
Referees need a break. I'm sure it's hard to figure out the medium between "I know a fighter wants to be out before I call it" and "he can't recover; there needs to be an end."
(They should can Dan Miragliotti though. That guy needs to go. The Vera/Werdum fight, the Slice/Thompson fight, and the Herring eyepoke were all stupid.)
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Post #10 3/15/09 6:30:37PM
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Big John and Herb Dean are by far the best in the business. Herb is a fighter himself and knows when a fighter is really hurt and when to let the fight play out a little longer. John is just simply the most exprienced and knowlegable ref in the game. Those two should start a school for Refs in MMA. That would solve all these problems and we'd never have to see Yves or Mazzagatti ever again.
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Post #11 3/15/09 7:21:27PM
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postman
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 564-321
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Delmont ,Pa
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Big john is number one for sure but I think Yamakski is second then Herb and what do all these guys have in common they train in martial arts. They know whats going on.
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Post #12 3/15/09 8:48:24PM
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theguido
What the hell happened!
Career record: 297-234
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Olivia, MN
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Personaly I like Yves alot to cause every ref has made a bad call or two but at least this guy has made few bad calls and when he does he one of the only refs who admits and appolgises when he screws up
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Post #13 3/15/09 9:34:52PM
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Wolf
MMA Regular
Career record: 371-242
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted by MondayNiteMauser
Big John and Herb Dean are by far the best in the business. Herb is a fighter himself and knows when a fighter is really hurt and when to let the fight play out a little longer. John is just simply the most exprienced and knowlegable ref in the game. Those two should start a school for Refs in MMA. That would solve all these problems and we'd never have to see Yves or Mazzagatti ever again.
Big John already has a school for refs. The problem is Texas is the only state that will pay to send its refs to a school like that. Most other refs won't pay that themselves.
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Post #14 3/16/09 9:45:54AM
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Tein_Lung
Banned
Career record: 92-57
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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Posted by Wolf
Posted by Bloodhound
let John McCarthy & Herb Dean do all the fights, problem solved
i like herb, but he's had his fair share of bad stoppages too.
so has Big John... but people just tend to forget them because they were 10 years ago for the most part
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Post #15 3/16/09 10:59:36PM
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