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A new Iceman vs Shogun thread-Poll

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Who wins and how
Chuck KO 42 56%
Shogun KO 19 25%
Shogun sub 0 0%
Shogun Decision 7 9%
Chuck Decision 7 9%
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jakeiceman

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Posted by cmill21

Lol I agree that Chuck might take Shogun out...but Tank, thats got to be a joke lol.




Ha ha yeah sorry that was out of line and yes it was a joke.....Shogun would tool Tank easily.

Shogun is a stud, it will be a great fight. I'm the Liddell so I gotta stir some crap

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Post #16   3/11/09 9:57:05PM   

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Tank would have his customary 30 seconds to throw a hay maker. If it didn't land, I would see a quick sub for Shogun. Still, you can never count out someone like Tank , even against Fedor If Fujita could land a wild punch on Fedor, could imagine the damage a Tank shot would do? The punchers chance is why i don't think champions should fight non-tile ,or freak show matches. When Fedor fought Hong Man Choi, the giants glancing blows left a bruise. Can you imagine if someone that freakishly strong landed a flush technically well delivered hook on Fedors' dome? I think it would have been nighty night,and I personally believe Fedor the baddest mma fighter on the planet. The mma world would be in far more chaos than GSP/Serra. At least Serra was considered a tough savvy veteran.

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Post #17   3/12/09 5:08:15AM   

pv3Hpv3p

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I see Shogun taking this one...

I know it's stupid to make excuses for a fighter, but the cardio thing to me seems excusable... He had an injured knee and couldn't run (makes it prettty tough to train cardio) against Forrest... And then I think he put a lot of pressure on himself against Coleman because of the loss to Forrest and the Hammerhouse/Chutebox fued thing...

Hopefully he comes into this bout with a clear head and is focused so we can see if he really can be the fighter he was... no excuses after this one...

It was mentioned that Shogun's a small LHW... I know he's not exactly as big as Chuck, but he's 6-1 or 6-2 and cuts to 205 so I would think he's right on par with most LH's

Post #18   3/12/09 11:24:40AM   

RhythmAndStyle

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since his last fight with Coleman..we all agree that that Shogun's cardio has been that great..injuries and what not..but i do hope he works on that and pulls off a much needed victory..a BIG victory..i have to go with Shogun via decision...

Post #19   3/12/09 11:48:11AM   

NatedawgThaM

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I say Shoguns starts winning with mixed striking not just punching smarter then wandy but fades late in the 2nd or 3rd and shoots that slow single leg in ends up on all fours and thats when liddel spraws and stops em.

Post #20   3/14/09 3:41:31AM   

lohmann

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Shogun's not the only fighter that doesn't resemble himself anymore in this fight. I think there's a lot of questions to be answered regarding Liddell (in addition to the obvious ones concerning Rua's fitness and gameplanning). Liddell's suffering from a lot of the symptoms of aging: slowed speed in his footwork and punches, decreased power, and vulnerability in his chin. He hasn't knocked out anybody since Tito Ortiz in 2006 despite being put in fights against Jardine, whose chin is allegedly subpar, and Wanderlei Silva, who has been battered to a point of fragility. He was never able to act adequately offensive or defensive against Rampage, Jardine, or Evans, all of whom dictated the pace of the fight. Liddell was nearly knocked out by both Rampage and Jardine standing up, and Evans floored him; I'm not sure where Rua's power ranks, but I'm sure it's somewhere up there.

I do expect Liddell to win, but I think Rua will not be easy to handle early in the fight. Liddell will probably be able to capitalize on Rua, should he gas, and give him his first knockout loss early in the second; I do hope "the Shogun" shows up though.

Post #21   3/14/09 4:52:08AM   

tmas

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i dont understand why anyone would pick Chuck....both guys imo are on the downfall.......the difference btw the two Shogun is young and can rebound and save his career.

Post #22   3/14/09 7:40:24AM   

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I gotta give this one to chuck. they both are on the slide going down but chuck has the advantage of that cage being his home and the rules he has been used to. I dont think shogun is goin to be much of a threat in the states with our rules. I always thought shogun's biggest threat was stomping and kicking an oppnent on the ground and he cant do that here. I also think they both have the disadvantage of where and who they train with in prep for a fight. I respect chuck for his loyalty to hackleman and the pit but I dont think he has the partners to train with on the daily to make him more of an evolving fighter. Im not really sure about shoguns training but I think (correct me if im wrong) he and his brother opened a school (Universidade da Luta ) and they dont have to training they used to. I also think chuck needs to get back to utalizing his KICKboxing and not just a right hand, If he dose that much I think he can have another good run in him.

Post #23   3/15/09 8:55:21PM   

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Some good points made by a lot of people in this thread.

I personally believe that if Shogun shows up in shape he'll take this one convincingly. As long as he's patient and uses the low and mid kick to assert his dominant striking he should be good. With Chuck you've got to stay on the outside and let your kicks do the talking. If you start chasing him and try to overextend your punches he can put almost anyone out.

The big question is- will Shogun show up in shape?

Post #24   3/15/09 9:31:44PM   

bjj1605

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I don't see any way shogun takes this. Even the old shogun. I think he was very exciting in pride and i don't think this will be his last fight in the UFC (he's 1-1 with his loss coming to a former champ... give him a break) but he is agressive and a little wild. That will leave openings for chucks big punch. I think chuck is way past his prime and I think shogun winning would be better for the sport. Unfortunately I don't feel he can win this stylistically. Not good enough defense to stop chucks power and not strong enough wrestling to take chuck down and hold him down. Remember, chuck's only weapon now may be his big right hand. But he still has that weapon. Power is the last thing to go. Chuck by Rnd 1 KO

Post #25   3/16/09 2:15:03AM   

Aevilgar

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Unless Shogun comes in as a wholey different fighter than fought Coleman, he is going to have a short night. Hopefully with more time gone by now he can have gotten in a little better shape, if not it is walking papers for Shogun.

However, if Shogun is in good shape, and has some fluid movement goign on, he could certainly takes it right to Chuck.

I have Chuck via 1rTKO here. I'm thinking Shogun drop his hands briefly near the end of the second, and gets plastered. He may be weathered, and I may not like him, but that doesn't change the fact he is still one hammer down ************.

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Post #26   3/19/09 2:00:20AM   

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This fight would have meant so much more in 2005-06. Who knows anymore what either guy will bring. It will be interesting to see if Shogun has come to realize that a modern mma fighter in the US needs cardio and some sort of gameplan. If Shogun shows up in good shape and has done some sort of preparation for Chuck that will mean a lot. Alternatively, it will be interesting to see if Chuck has learned anything from his recent defeats. Namely, Chuck's striking defense needs a serious overhaul. If he has improved his d and keeps a hand up by his chin when he is throwing bombs that will be a good sign.


Two fighters who less than three years ago were considered the best have fallen quickly. Their games have started to look outdated. This fight could be the beginning of a new chapter in one or both of their careers. Or it could be the swansong of two fighters who couldn't keep up with the sport anymore. Will one or both of them show they can evolve?

Either way, it should be interesting

Last edited 3/19/09 2:58AM server time by ncordless
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Post #27   3/19/09 2:57:37AM   

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Shogun should be winning the fight as long as he can keep his head movement going.
When he gets tired thats the first thing to go, and thats what scares me against a fighter like chuck.

Hopefully most of his ring rust wore off in the last fight, but as a shogun fan im scared.

One upside - Chuck only has a 1" reach advantage on shogun, but with his lack of defense when he strikes he may just get caught early.

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Post #28   3/19/09 3:25:46AM   

cmill21

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Posted by Pookie

One upside - Chuck only has a 1" reach advantage on shogun, but with his lack of defense when he strikes he may just get caught early.



Shogun or Chuck? Shogun tucks his shoulders pretty good. I'm sure your talking about Chuck since he has no defense lol.

Post #29   3/19/09 3:35:33AM   

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My deal with this fight is this, Liddell and Shogun havnt looked that good lately. Chuck won against Wanderlei and indeed that was a good win but hes been healthy and losing 3 outta 4 of his fights, Shogun has lost once lately and that was when he shouldnt have even been in the cage with someone the caliber of Forrest (its shoguns fault really).

If both come in shape this shouldnt even be close as Chucks' striking defense is awful and he has problems checking leg kicks. However if Chuck out cardios Shogun (which might be his plan) his overall movement is sluggish and he is easier to hit. Shogun is the much faster of the two and maybe we wont even have to see if Shogun has his cardio back

I hope no controversy comes out in this fight, I really do like both of these guys and it kinda pains me to see it happen a little too late like the Wanderlei fight.

Post #30   3/19/09 3:39:46AM   
 
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