Training doesnt matter? |
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Jeffanori-Gomi
Standup Guy
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So Im in the mma lounge forum and getting into a minor dispute with one of the other posters. My argument is that training MMA, boxing, Muay thai etc helps shapes ones perspective on watching MMA events.
I was then told that training doesnt really matter, and got a story about street fights and how just being tough is enough to compete.
Does anyone else see the fallacy in this? If training didnt matter then Tank Abbott would be the UFC HW champ?
Maybe it is just me but if Im watching say a football game, (a sport ive never played) with some college football players, wouldnt they have insight to areas you would only know IF you played the sport?
Im not trying to alienate any fans here, but the people on this forum who train, don't you guys notice when your talking to people who just watch MMA events have quite a small perspective on the sport?
your thoughts
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Post #1 3/24/07 11:59:49AM
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Jeffanori-Gomi
Standup Guy
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I dont mean for this thread to demoralize anyones opinion. I think most people training/no training have lots of valid input
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Post #2 3/24/07 12:26:11PM
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Rush
Laying down the beats
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Hey Jeff
I tend to agree that training helps shape the technical understanding of MMA. I find that my experience helps me understand what's going on in a fight (during the fight) but doesn't necessarily help me predict the outcome.
Maybe some people are misunderstanding the difference between the two.
How many people would argue that you can't say much about being held in someone's guard unless you've experienced it first hand?
There are also a lot of people that talk about street fighting like they do it on a daily basis. Most of the "real" fighters that I know don't talk much about fighting unless it's the technical aspects of it. In my experience I have found that a lot of the street fight talk is used because they have no technical understanding themselves, but that is just my observation in the 'real world'.
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Post #3 3/24/07 3:47:40PM
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Jeffanori-Gomi
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Posted by Rush
Hey Jeff
I tend to agree that training helps shape the technical understanding of MMA. I find that my experience helps me understand what's going on in a fight (during the fight) but doesn't necessarily help me predict the outcome.
Maybe some people are misunderstanding the difference between the two.
How many people would argue that you can't say much about being held in someone's guard unless you've experienced it first hand?
There are also a lot of people that talk about street fighting like they do it on a daily basis. Most of the "real" fighters that I know don't talk much about fighting unless it's the technical aspects of it. In my experience I have found that a lot of the street fight talk is used because they have no technical understanding themselves, but that is just my observation in the 'real world'.
My sentiments exactly. There are guys who are physically gifted and would be naturals in combat sports.
Theres this 15 year old kid that I roll with who pretty much gets fullmount/ taps me out at will, because hes one of those guys that things come really naturally.
You know anyone like that?
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Post #4 3/24/07 7:46:44PM
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Rush
Laying down the beats
Career record: 467-329
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Location: Canadian living in the SF Bay Area
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Posted by Jeffanori-Gomi
Theres this 15 year old kid that I roll with who pretty much gets fullmount/ taps me out at will, because hes one of those guys that things come really naturally.
You know anyone like that?
Yeah me. lol
Just kidding. I do pick things up really fast, but I would never consider myself a prodigy (or even close).
I've never experienced those types of people. In fact, I see the opposite a lot. There are some people that I question how they walk around without hurting themselves. There are people in aikido that have no co-ordination whatsoever.
The nice thing is to see them develop over the first 6 months. However, there are still some people out there that have been training for over a year and still can't do the simplest of movements.
I also find that the people that struggle (a little) are better teachers because they are forced to understand the techniques and how they work.
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Post #5 3/24/07 8:03:57PM
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Jeffanori-Gomi
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Im really lucky because my Trainer was pro kickboxer and pro MMA and he trained at AMC pankration with Josh Barnett and a few other guys. He also trained with Dennis Kang. Plus there are a few pros that I spar with and we have a good atmosphere with the regulars. We tend to go a little harder on the noobies to weed out the wussies..
But ya some kids that I know have been there for years and are horrible and there some kids that have been there for 6 months and it feels like they've had a bunch of fights under their belt.
Personally my Jui jitsu is probably the worst IMO. My scramble and sprawl is okay but my offensive juijitsu is really bad. Thats why Im mainly a standup guy
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Post #6 3/25/07 12:12:11AM
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bayonetxwork
In Full Mount
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I definitely agree. You can't even begin to imagine how hard it is to do some of the stuff you see these guys do, unless you do it.
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Post #7 3/25/07 5:14:43PM
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Jeffanori-Gomi
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I think little things you tend to appreciate more too. Like posting guys off the fence, gaining better body positions etc
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Post #8 3/25/07 6:23:19PM
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Rush
Laying down the beats
Career record: 467-329
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Location: Canadian living in the SF Bay Area
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Posted by Jeffanori-Gomi
I think little things you tend to appreciate more too. Like posting guys off the fence, gaining better body positions etc
Or just understanding how important body positioning actually is.
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Post #9 3/25/07 7:51:32PM
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MonkeyPus
Learning to Sprawl
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Posted by bayonetxwork
I definitely agree. You can't even begin to imagine how hard it is to do some of the stuff you see these guys do, unless you do it.
I had a completely different view of boxing once I sparred my first round. Its one thing to think you know what its like, its another to have experienced it.
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Post #10 3/25/07 11:11:28PM
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Jeffanori-Gomi
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Posted by MonkeyPus
Posted by bayonetxwork
I definitely agree. You can't even begin to imagine how hard it is to do some of the stuff you see these guys do, unless you do it.
I had a completely different view of boxing once I sparred my first round. Its one thing to think you know what its like, its another to have experienced it.
With boxing especially, I experienced the same thing. After my first day sparring i stopped circling into eveyones power hands 
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Post #11 3/26/07 1:03:23AM
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MethodMan
MMA Regular
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You can sometimes get an insight into the fighters game plan, which could be missed by somebody simply watching the action. I think people who do fight MMA appreciate the ground game more, while stand up is kinetic and the damage done obvious, the ground game tends to be methodical and finshed by subs, most non-fighters dont comprehend how much these subs hurt or the damge that can be done with them. I think serious fans can come to appreciate the ground game but they dont feel it, I dont know about you guys but when watching a fast arm bar or heel hook I get a twing and my body remembers what that felt like when it was done on me.
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Post #12 3/27/07 5:45:02AM
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Rush
Laying down the beats
Career record: 467-329
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Location: Canadian living in the SF Bay Area
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Posted by MethodMan
You can sometimes get an insight into the fighters game plan, which could be missed by somebody simply watching the action. I think people who do fight MMA appreciate the ground game more, while stand up is kinetic and the damage done obvious, the ground game tends to be methodical and finshed by subs, most non-fighters dont comprehend how much these subs hurt or the damge that can be done with them. I think serious fans can come to appreciate the ground game but they dont feel it, I dont know about you guys but when watching a fast arm bar or heel hook I get a twing and my body remembers what that felt like when it was done on me.
yes, good point, but how can you explain the Japanese fans appreciating the ground game more in Pride compared to the North American fans in the UFC?
I would bet that the proportion of Japanese fans that actually train (MMA, or whatever) is the same or lower than the North American fans.
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Post #13 3/27/07 4:06:20PM
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SteedTheDeed
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having trained on the ground does help you watch grappling more. why else would people who dont train it think its "boring" when it is very exciting.
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Post #14 4/9/07 1:45:57PM
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Mastodon2
MMA Sensei
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Having done a bit of Judo and kick boxing, I can understand how when a fight looks like its going nowhere on the ground to the average guy, it can actually be a very hard fought battle.
And I know how easy it is to get tired quickly when fighting too.
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Post #15 4/9/07 6:43:34PM
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