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Traditional Martial Arts in MMA

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bjj1605

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So for years everybody has assumed that traditional martial arts just don't work in MMA. They're too full of culture or to stylized. The early days showed karate, kung fu, tae kwon do, all falling to jiu jitsu and wrestling. The only two striking arts most people considered valid were Boxing and Muay Thai/Kick Boxing. Machida and George St. Pierre are both karate black belts. We have recently seen a couple of tae kwon do, san shou, and jeet kune do fighters in MMA. It seems to me the traditional arts are making a come back.

The problem was more likely that many of the earl traditionalists were one dimensional. So how far could this thing go? Down the road will kung fu be as common as jiu jitsu? Are the acrobatic kicks of tae kwon do really combat effective?

I just wan't every one's thoughts.

Last edited 2/2/09 5:08PM server time by bjj1605
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Post #1   2/2/09 5:07:57PM   

postman

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As with BJJ all styles have strengths and weakness. As we see more MMA gyms going up the one style gyms are going to pass IMO. Never before was it encouraged to practice many styles now you have the best of all the styles under one roof. The way the economy is you can't afford to hit 3 gyms a week and weed out the useless techniques.

Post #2   2/2/09 7:15:59PM   

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They're exceptions. And as far as GSP's karate, I'm not going to say for sure it's basically leaning K boxing with a gi, but that is the likelyhood. With the exception of Lyoto most of the karate and tai kwon doe guys have experiance in kickboxing or muay thai.

Traditional won't make a comeback.

Post #3   2/2/09 7:26:32PM   

Styles

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Its all about building a good base and expanding from it. Look at how Mach uses his base talent.... Mach in my eyes will be the next mega star due to being able to defend in such great measures. Who could deny a fighter that is training JJ, Karate, and wrestling. You average MMA classes will train wrestling, boxing and JJ, karate can be used for defense and striking. It makes for a great combo of knowledge. To say that tradional martial arts wont make a comeback is neither here or there. Its Martial Arts and in a fight, anything can happen. Can anyone answer this question, what did kimbo get beat with after training boxing, wrestling and JJ for a bit of time???

Post #4   2/2/09 11:37:22PM   

madmarck

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Lyoto and GSP come from far different styles of Karate.

GSP does Kyokushin karate
Lyoto does Shotokan Karate

Very different styles. You might also notices both hold substantial experience in BJJ with GSP holding a black belt and Lyoto a Brown.

Also if you notice in his fights GSP doesn't fight like a Kyokushin fighter. and he has much training in Muay Thai. Not to mention his phenomenal wrestling. To call GSP a karate fighter is a gross understatement. How many Karate black belts do you know that can Pass BJ Penn's Guard with such ease?

Post #5   2/3/09 8:48:48AM   

bjj1605

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The point isn't that they will just use traditional arts. And I understand both are well rounded. But you do see a lot of karate in GSP. If you don't than you don't know karate. His movement, his kicks, his straight punches (as can be seen in fights with fitch and penn) contrast this with the Muay Thai of anderson and you get a big contrast in styles. WHat they prove is traditional martial arts do have a place, just not a singular one. Incorporate with the other common styles they are very effective.

Post #6   2/3/09 2:46:51PM   

madmarck

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Posted by bjj1605

The point isn't that they will just use traditional arts. And I understand both are well rounded. But you do see a lot of karate in GSP. If you don't than you don't know karate. His movement, his kicks, his straight punches (as can be seen in fights with fitch and penn) contrast this with the Muay Thai of anderson and you get a big contrast in styles. WHat they prove is traditional martial arts do have a place, just not a singular one. Incorporate with the other common styles they are very effective.



You do realize that a straight punch is present in Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, San Sho, Karate, and a million other forms...............

Post #7   2/4/09 8:58:49AM   

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I think traditional martial arts have their place.. The early days of the UFC just proved that knowing a single style was not enough.. Muay Thai is not the end all be all of striking styles.. it is highly effective yes.. but by itself it is not enough. You need to add more.. Ground work submissions something.. You get a Karate Black belt who is ranked high in BJJ as well.. and you get... Lyoto.. The problem is many traditionalists have a tendency to study just that one style so they would nto be effective in MMA.

As an example I have a friend who is a 3rd degree BB in Tang Soo Do and 2nd degree in Ishnryu.. He ground skills are non existent. Now if me and him did an MMA style match while my stand up is not to par with his. I am not a slouch but I am not at his level... I get him to the ground I can use My BJJ which while I am just a white belt I am more then he is and he has never done any but the most basic of ground training...

So I think we will see more people who claim a more traditional MA as their main style will be come more prevalent as you will have more starting to cross train. and for the record... When did Muay Thai stop being a traditional martial art?

Post #8   2/6/09 7:05:51PM   

jiujitsufreak74

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Andy Hug would be the perfect example of a Kyokushin Karate fighter...unfortunately he never tried his hand at MMA and left this world too soon.

RIP Andy

Post #9   2/7/09 2:19:59AM   

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I don't think we'll ever see anyone enter MMA as a pure traditional fighter from one style and dominate, but there are guys that incorporate traditional martial art tactics, strikes, sweeps, etc into their arsenal and have success with it, and theres no reason to say this won't always be the case, especially considering four of the best fighters in the world (GSP, Anderson Silva, Machida, Fedor) do it.

Last edited 2/16/09 3:15PM server time by svartorm
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Post #10   2/10/09 8:19:21PM   

Omega

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Um...I cursored over everybody's remarks I think we may be forgetting a few things here.

Judo is a TMA, Muay Thai is a TMA, BJJ technically is a TMA. Wrestling is over 3000 years old and taught to military around the world. That by definition is a TMA. Hawaiin Kempo which is a variation off Kajukenbo which both stick to a lot of the TMA values have done well in the cage.

It's a very old argument. Been around for awhile. I do kung-fu. I've had 20 amateur and professional fights. I loved it when 3 announcers asked if I was serious when I said I did kung-fu.

A variety of kicking reminiscent of TKD and ceartains styles of karate have reared it's head as of late. The bottom line is that those arts that kept training hard and training as real as they could be have done well in the cage.

Post #11   2/14/09 4:21:15AM   

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Posted by Omega

Um...I cursored over everybody's remarks I think we may be forgetting a few things here.

Judo is a TMA, Muay Thai is a TMA, BJJ technically is a TMA. Wrestling is over 3000 years old and taught to military around the world. That by definition is a TMA. Hawaiin Kempo which is a variation off Kajukenbo which both stick to a lot of the TMA values have done well in the cage.

It's a very old argument. Been around for awhile. I do kung-fu. I've had 20 amateur and professional fights. I loved it when 3 announcers asked if I was serious when I said I did kung-fu.

A variety of kicking reminiscent of TKD and ceartains styles of karate have reared it's head as of late. The bottom line is that those arts that kept training hard and training as real as they could be have done well in the cage.



Excellent points.. its the styles that have not been effective failed inteh cage because they were limited and unevolving.. a martial art needs to be evolving if it is stoo be relevent in teh modern world..

Post #12   2/16/09 5:13:19PM   

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well that sanshou guy Cung Le with a record of 46-0
undefeated in the MMA , middleweight fighter of Elite XC.
which dana white is planning to recruit after his movie deal is
done. stance , timing, opening, movement , position he uses it all
in his fights. doesnt have the strongest and the fastest punch.
but accurate timing in his kick is sure deadly. of which shamrock
right hand got broken from.

Post #13   2/17/09 12:40:45AM   

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Posted by who

well that sanshou guy Cung Le with a record of 46-0
undefeated in the MMA , middleweight fighter of Elite XC.
which dana white is planning to recruit after his movie deal is
done. stance , timing, opening, movement , position he uses it all
in his fights. doesnt have the strongest and the fastest punch.
but accurate timing in his kick is sure deadly. of which shamrock
right hand got broken from.


Cung Le is a good example of how kicks and combinations that you wouldn't normally see in a Muay Thai or K-1 match can be effective in MMA. But Cung Le was also a college wrestler and San Shou itself is a hybrid art combining takedowns with kickboxing.

I think the closest thing you'll see to a successful one-style fighter is the old-school Ground and Pound wrestlers like Coleman, Severn, Randleman and Lindland. I know most people wouldnt' consider wresting a"traditional martial art" but I think you'll have to really twist that definition to exclude it.

Post #14   2/17/09 8:17:47AM   

madmarck

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Posted by who

well that sanshou guy Cung Le with a record of 46-0
undefeated in the MMA , middleweight fighter of Elite XC.
which dana white is planning to recruit after his movie deal is
done. stance , timing, opening, movement , position he uses it all
in his fights. doesnt have the strongest and the fastest punch.
but accurate timing in his kick is sure deadly. of which shamrock
right hand got broken from.



Cung Le while being a awesome striker.................... hasnt been taken down by a good Wrestler or BJJ guy. I'm gonna say he would have trouble agaisnt someone who would.

Post #15   2/17/09 11:02:30PM