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Dana On Penn-Silva: Likely Not Happening

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DCRage

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Killing rumors before they can really get going, UFC President Dana White recently elaborated on why a BJ Penn vs. Anderson Sila superfight could-and almost certainly will not-happen.

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Last edited 12/24/08 11:14AM server time by DCRage
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Post #1   12/24/08 10:05:22AM   

ohiostate1016

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This just proves that Dana doesn't watch K-1. Penn has fought at 205 before, facing Lyoto Machida in K-1. He also fought Renzo in K-1, and I believe that fight was at 185.

What Dana also may not know is that Anderson Silva fought in ROTR at 175 (remember when he was dominating Yushin Okami before getting DQ'd for an illegal upkick?). If Dana is going to let B.J. go up to 170 to fight GSP, then why can't we see him go up to 175 to fight Anderson at a catchweight?

I guarantee you right now that the winner of GSP/Penn will be fighting Anderson Silva at UFC 100 on July 4.

Last edited 12/24/08 11:07AM server time by ohiostate1016
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Post #2   12/24/08 11:06:35AM   

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Posted by ohiostate1016

This just proves that Dana doesn't watch K-1. Penn has fought at 205 before, facing Lyoto Machida in K-1. He also fought Renzo in K-1, and I believe that fight was at 185.

What Dana also may not know is that Anderson Silva fought in ROTR at 175 (remember when he was dominating Yushin Okami before getting DQ'd for an illegal upkick?). If Dana is going to let B.J. go up to 170 to fight GSP, then why can't we see him go up to 175 to fight Anderson at a catchweight?

I guarantee you right now that the winner of GSP/Penn will be fighting Anderson Silva at UFC 100 on July 4.

You're assuming Anderson Silva would want to drop to 175 after more than three years since the last time.

Post #3   12/24/08 11:21:57AM   

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Posted by ohiostate1016

This just proves that Dana doesn't watch K-1. Penn has fought at 205 before, facing Lyoto Machida in K-1. He also fought Renzo in K-1, and I believe that fight was at 185.

What Dana also may not know is that Anderson Silva fought in ROTR at 175 (remember when he was dominating Yushin Okami before getting DQ'd for an illegal upkick?). If Dana is going to let B.J. go up to 170 to fight GSP, then why can't we see him go up to 175 to fight Anderson at a catchweight?

I guarantee you right now that the winner of GSP/Penn will be fighting Anderson Silva at UFC 100 on July 4.



BJ also looked like a Buddah Baby with rolls all over the place. he was out of shape and not in top form. for BJ to fight at 185 he wouldn't be in the same shape as he would if the fight were at 155. and idk that in this point in his career if Anderson can make 175.

Post #4   12/24/08 11:42:09AM   

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I'm betting that he could for the right money. Always remember that money is the bottom line. People will do A LOT for money.

Post #5   12/24/08 11:54:29AM   

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money is the right incentive when you're dealing with certain fighters or certain situations... neither penn nor silva fight for money and this fight would be to determine the true p4p title... fedor is p4p no1 on my list right now, but i wouldnt deny penn his rightful place at the top if he could beat gsp and silva.

There are a couple problems with this fight. Number 1 is that when you have a champ jumping divisions, you prolong title fights. With penn fighting gsp, the lw title is put on hold meaning that florian has to wait until god knows when for his shot. Because gsp is fighting penn, alves has to wait until god knows when for his title shot.

If penn wins the matchup, with penn only fighting 2-3 times per year, either florian or alves will have to wait until late 2009 to fight... thats a hell of a layoff. If gsp wins then its not so bad because they go back to defending their respective titles.

Now lets say penn wins, and dana now gives him a shot at silva. This fight will probably happen over the summer... perhaps ufc 100. That means that either florian or alves will have to wait until early 2010 to fight. God forbid penn beats silva, now you have one title fight per year in the three weight classes until penn loses to a contender... and if he beat gsp, silva and sherk to get there... then it wont be easy to take those belts from him.

The last reason why this fight probably wont happen is that its a bad matchup for penn. Penn's real fighting weight is 155. Thats where he's lean, has good cardio, and his reach is still decent at. If penn is gonna be fighting for the middle weight title then penn is going up to 185. Penn, an in shape 185er by july? not gonna happen. I love bj's chin, but how much better can it be compared to lebens or hendersons? And how does penn plan on winning this fight? considering silva's power, accuracy, diversity, and reach on his feet.. this isnt a fight that penn can win with his boxing. Silva's biggest weakness is his wrestling and td defense... but thats not a weakness that penn has the skills to exploit.

So ya... its a jizz ur pants fight to see them go at it... but how much sense does it really make? You're putting 2 titles on hold, putting lots of fights on hold... and for what? a bad matchup where if penn pulls of the upset it makes the overall situation worse?

I think what needs to happen is that any champ after X amount of title defenses has the option to challenge another champ with the same amount of title defenses. The challenge will be a 5 round fight, but will not be for the belt. This way we get to see the superfights we want, and dont have to deal with a fighter defending more than one title.

Post #6   12/24/08 12:17:16PM   

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Posted by wapttn

money is the right incentive when you're dealing with certain fighters or certain situations... neither penn nor silva fight for money and this fight would be to determine the true p4p title... fedor is p4p no1 on my list right now, but i wouldnt deny penn his rightful place at the top if he could beat gsp and silva.

There are a couple problems with this fight. Number 1 is that when you have a champ jumping divisions, you prolong title fights. With penn fighting gsp, the lw title is put on hold meaning that florian has to wait until god knows when for his shot. Because gsp is fighting penn, alves has to wait until god knows when for his title shot.

If penn wins the matchup, with penn only fighting 2-3 times per year, either florian or alves will have to wait until late 2009 to fight... thats a hell of a layoff. If gsp wins then its not so bad because they go back to defending their respective titles.

Now lets say penn wins, and dana now gives him a shot at silva. This fight will probably happen over the summer... perhaps ufc 100. That means that either florian or alves will have to wait until early 2010 to fight. God forbid penn beats silva, now you have one title fight per year in the three weight classes until penn loses to a contender... and if he beat gsp, silva and sherk to get there... then it wont be easy to take those belts from him.

The last reason why this fight probably wont happen is that its a bad matchup for penn. Penn's real fighting weight is 155. Thats where he's lean, has good cardio, and his reach is still decent at. If penn is gonna be fighting for the middle weight title then penn is going up to 185. Penn, an in shape 185er by july? not gonna happen. I love bj's chin, but how much better can it be compared to lebens or hendersons? And how does penn plan on winning this fight? considering silva's power, accuracy, diversity, and reach on his feet.. this isnt a fight that penn can win with his boxing. Silva's biggest weakness is his wrestling and td defense... but thats not a weakness that penn has the skills to exploit.

So ya... its a jizz ur pants fight to see them go at it... but how much sense does it really make? You're putting 2 titles on hold, putting lots of fights on hold... and for what? a bad matchup where if penn pulls of the upset it makes the overall situation worse?

I think what needs to happen is that any champ after X amount of title defenses has the option to challenge another champ with the same amount of title defenses. The challenge will be a 5 round fight, but will not be for the belt. This way we get to see the superfights we want, and dont have to deal with a fighter defending more than one title.



All of your scenarios work in a perfect world, but we all know that this isn't a perfect world. Depleting 401(k)'s and our horrid economy prove that.

You argue that divisions will be put on hold. Who cares? Who are Kenny Florian and Thiago Alves in the big picture of this sport? I am a huge fan of both, but they are really nobodys.

I don't know when the fans will realize this, but the UFC is about making money. And you can bet your a** that the UFC will make twice as much off of a GSP or BJ vs. Anderson than they would off of BJ/Florian or GSP/Alves (or even Anderson/Leites).

The fact remains that if Dana wants this fight to happen, and if he sees the dollar signs in his eyes, then this fight will happen. Florian will fight - and beat - another contender in the meantime, and GSP will fight Alves for a shot at the title (this all hinging on assuming that BJ beats GSP at 94).

Last edited 12/24/08 12:32PM server time by ohiostate1016
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Post #7   12/24/08 12:31:32PM   

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man, this is upsetting.. damn, the only person outta the three who wont do it is dana. gay

Post #8   12/24/08 12:37:23PM   

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if you wanna break it down to the cash flow, it still doesnt make sense. I dont disagree that the ufc is a business, and the ufc will often make decisions based on revenue/profit rather than whats good for the sport... fortunately for the fans, they are often one and the same.

The reason why this fight doesnt make sense revenue wise is because of the lack of title fights per year. If silva held all three belts, he'd probably be fine with defending once a month, but with someone like penn who wants to fight 2-3 times per year (originally saying that he only wanted to fight 1-2 times per year)... it would mean that with the exception of the lhw and hw division, there would only be 2-3 title fights per year. A lot of ppv buys, especially for the casual fan hinge on whether or not there is a title fight right? So now instead of having on average one title fight per card (not including ufn), we'll have 1 title fight ever 2-3 cards. That loss of revenue will easily outweigh the surge of buys that would come from a superfight between penn and silva.

A secondary reason that i suspect would hurt revenue is the fact that you would have marquee fighters who have earned their no1 contendership... and are ppv draws, sitting on the shelf utnil a title bout comes up. Imagine gsp not fighting for a year because he's earned his rematch with penn and has to wait until penn is done defending his other two titles? Thats a revenue killer. Even now... fighters like florian and alves are becomming more and more popular with their recent wins... but neither will fight before next summer. These are fighters who fans will pay to see, but because they're in line for a title... nobody's gonna pay to see them for a long time

Post #9   12/24/08 12:47:08PM   

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Well since BJ lost at 205 to machida, it doesnt seem like a good bet. Dana is right on this one.

Plus is BJ won the WW title he would have too much on his plate to fight Silva, because he would still have florian and alves and then more to come if he survives that.

Post #10   12/24/08 1:11:12PM   

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Posted by ohiostate1016

All of your scenarios work in a perfect world, but we all know that this isn't a perfect world. Depleting 401(k)'s and our horrid economy prove that.

You argue that divisions will be put on hold. Who cares? Who are Kenny Florian and Thiago Alves in the big picture of this sport? I am a huge fan of both, but they are really nobodys.

I don't know when the fans will realize this, but the UFC is about making money. And you can bet your a** that the UFC will make twice as much off of a GSP or BJ vs. Anderson than they would off of BJ/Florian or GSP/Alves (or even Anderson/Leites).

The fact remains that if Dana wants this fight to happen, and if he sees the dollar signs in his eyes, then this fight will happen. Florian will fight - and beat - another contender in the meantime, and GSP will fight Alves for a shot at the title (this all hinging on assuming that BJ beats GSP at 94).



How does one put a price tag on responsibility? A guy that walks around at 170 fighting arguably the best fighter on the planet that happens to walk around at 215 or more is not a responsible decision for the UFC or for the sport...sure it happens in other countries by other companies, but that's not what we're talking about. I'm sure Penn would love nothing more than to test himself against Silva, but sometimes you have to protect fighters from themselves. You have to remember that the UFC got where they are by adhering to a set of safety guidelines...and Penn eating cupcakes to close the gap wouldn't be wise for the UFC at this juncture.

_______________________________________

Post #11   12/24/08 1:14:38PM   

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Posted by wapttn

if you wanna break it down to the cash flow, it still doesnt make sense. I dont disagree that the ufc is a business, and the ufc will often make decisions based on revenue/profit rather than whats good for the sport... fortunately for the fans, they are often one and the same.

The reason why this fight doesnt make sense revenue wise is because of the lack of title fights per year. If silva held all three belts, he'd probably be fine with defending once a month, but with someone like penn who wants to fight 2-3 times per year (originally saying that he only wanted to fight 1-2 times per year)... it would mean that with the exception of the lhw and hw division, there would only be 2-3 title fights per year. A lot of ppv buys, especially for the casual fan hinge on whether or not there is a title fight right? So now instead of having on average one title fight per card (not including ufn), we'll have 1 title fight ever 2-3 cards. That loss of revenue will easily outweigh the surge of buys that would come from a superfight between penn and silva.

A secondary reason that i suspect would hurt revenue is the fact that you would have marquee fighters who have earned their no1 contendership... and are ppv draws, sitting on the shelf utnil a title bout comes up. Imagine gsp not fighting for a year because he's earned his rematch with penn and has to wait until penn is done defending his other two titles? Thats a revenue killer. Even now... fighters like florian and alves are becomming more and more popular with their recent wins... but neither will fight before next summer. These are fighters who fans will pay to see, but because they're in line for a title... nobody's gonna pay to see them for a long time



Nobody ever said that these guys would be sitting on the shelf. I said before that if BJ beats GSP, then Florian will fight a contender that he can beat, and GSP would still fight Alves for a shot at BJ. BJ could then fight Anderson. Everybody is happy.

Post #12   12/24/08 1:22:43PM   

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Posted by grappler0000


Posted by ohiostate1016

All of your scenarios work in a perfect world, but we all know that this isn't a perfect world. Depleting 401(k)'s and our horrid economy prove that.

You argue that divisions will be put on hold. Who cares? Who are Kenny Florian and Thiago Alves in the big picture of this sport? I am a huge fan of both, but they are really nobodys.

I don't know when the fans will realize this, but the UFC is about making money. And you can bet your a** that the UFC will make twice as much off of a GSP or BJ vs. Anderson than they would off of BJ/Florian or GSP/Alves (or even Anderson/Leites).

The fact remains that if Dana wants this fight to happen, and if he sees the dollar signs in his eyes, then this fight will happen. Florian will fight - and beat - another contender in the meantime, and GSP will fight Alves for a shot at the title (this all hinging on assuming that BJ beats GSP at 94).



How does one put a price tag on responsibility? A guy that walks around at 170 fighting arguably the best fighter on the planet that happens to walk around at 215 or more is not a responsible decision for the UFC or for the sport...sure it happens in other countries by other companies, but that's not what we're talking about. I'm sure Penn would love nothing more than to test himself against Silva, but sometimes you have to protect fighters from themselves. You have to remember that the UFC got where they are by adhering to a set of safety guidelines...and Penn eating cupcakes to close the gap wouldn't be wise for the UFC at this juncture.



Point taken.

Post #13   12/24/08 1:23:51PM   

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Posted by ohiostate1016

[Nobody ever said that these guys would be sitting on the shelf. I said before that if BJ beats GSP, then Florian will fight a contender that he can beat, and GSP would still fight Alves for a shot at BJ. BJ could then fight Anderson. Everybody is happy.



*&^%$... hit the backspace and deleted my post =(

anyways...

so you would have florian face a contender that he can beat.. the way werdum was put up against dos santos? Or how griffin was matched up with jardine? Every fighter at this level has a fighter's chance to pull out the upset.. penn, gsp, sylvia, silva... all have all lost their titles to heavy underdogs.

But so lets say that florian and alves manage to avoid the upsets. Neither of them have lost since 06, and at least one of them will have to wait until 2010 before they actually get their title shot. If they both fight 3 more times between now and their title shot, florian will have set the new record for consecutive wins in the ufc at 9, and alves will beat that record with 10.

I can appreciate that you wanna see penn vs silva... i really do... but dont you think thats gonna start messing with the dynamics of the ufc, or with fighter's minds? 1 title fight per year for 3 of the 5 divisions? Fighters who need to put on record breaking win streaks to get their title shot means fighters who want the belt are gonna be ducking top competition... because you could have a 9 fight win streak and if you lose your 10th then you could have another 4 years to gobefore your next shot. Alves hasnt lost in almost 3 years... and after being guaranteed a title shot your gonna have him face gsp?

Regardless of whether i think penn/silva is a horrible match up.. it is a super fight that a lot of fans would love to see. But with penn possibly fighting for that title after holding 2 others could be seriously damaging to the sport... and 2009 is going to be a critical year for the growth of the ufc and mma.. not the time to find out what would happen if one fighter held 3 titles.

Post #14   12/24/08 4:01:01PM   

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Posted by wapttn


Posted by ohiostate1016

[Nobody ever said that these guys would be sitting on the shelf. I said before that if BJ beats GSP, then Florian will fight a contender that he can beat, and GSP would still fight Alves for a shot at BJ. BJ could then fight Anderson. Everybody is happy.



*&^%$... hit the backspace and deleted my post =(

anyways...

so you would have florian face a contender that he can beat.. the way werdum was put up against dos santos? Or how griffin was matched up with jardine? Every fighter at this level has a fighter's chance to pull out the upset.. penn, gsp, sylvia, silva... all have all lost their titles to heavy underdogs.

But so lets say that florian and alves manage to avoid the upsets. Neither of them have lost since 06, and at least one of them will have to wait until 2010 before they actually get their title shot. If they both fight 3 more times between now and their title shot, florian will have set the new record for consecutive wins in the ufc at 9, and alves will beat that record with 10.

I can appreciate that you wanna see penn vs silva... i really do... but dont you think thats gonna start messing with the dynamics of the ufc, or with fighter's minds? 1 title fight per year for 3 of the 5 divisions? Fighters who need to put on record breaking win streaks to get their title shot means fighters who want the belt are gonna be ducking top competition... because you could have a 9 fight win streak and if you lose your 10th then you could have another 4 years to gobefore your next shot. Alves hasnt lost in almost 3 years... and after being guaranteed a title shot your gonna have him face gsp?

Regardless of whether i think penn/silva is a horrible match up.. it is a super fight that a lot of fans would love to see. But with penn possibly fighting for that title after holding 2 others could be seriously damaging to the sport... and 2009 is going to be a critical year for the growth of the ufc and mma.. not the time to find out what would happen if one fighter held 3 titles.



Never really said that I would WANT to see Penn face Silva. I just said that a lot of fans would want to see that. And if Penn beats GSP I really think that he deserves a shot at Silva. Nobody else has beaten him, so why not give Penn a shot?

And I also never said that Penn would fight for the MW title. I was talking about having them fight at 175, which means that it couldn't be for the title.

And on a bigger level, I think that if Penn beats GSP that it is the UFC's duty to have these two fight. What was the original concept of the UFC? It goes without saying that the original concept was to see not only which style was the best, but which fighter was the best. Any MMA fan that realizes the true idea behind the sport should be behind the possibility of this fight.

And like I said before, it wouldn't hurt the UFC in the pockets either.

Post #15   12/24/08 4:28:13PM   
 
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