AA - No TD Defense = Little Chance Against Fedor |
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JohnnyNapalm
MMA Regular
Career record: 22-14
Season: 22-14 (#5568)
Location: In a vacuum named Hoover
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Posted by xxMALICExx
Dude, do you have AA listed #8 as 1 of 10 HW's that can beat AA?
No, that's called a top 10 list.
The list is followed by an explanation of what the list represents.
Reading is what makes this all clear.
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Post #16 10/6/08 2:43:41PM
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JohnnyNapalm
MMA Regular
Career record: 22-14
Season: 22-14 (#5568)
Location: In a vacuum named Hoover
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Posted by Rush
Arlovski's striking looked great in his fight against Nelson, but Nelson looked so poor that it's hard to really judge if what I saw was only superior striking or a mixture of great striking and a "poor" opponent.
As for ground work, again it's hard to judge from this fight alone. Nelson is not a top fighter. I don't care if he is a brown belt in BJJ, Roy Nelson is probably not even a top 20 HW.
Arlovski did what he had to do by not getting subbed or ground and pounded. I think he knew that he had the advantage on the feet. Why would Arlovski be too active on the ground, when his best chance was on the feet?
Again, I will stress that you can't judge Arlovski's abilities from this fight alone. But I do think he is more well rounded than most HWs, with his better half being the stand-up game.
As for a Fedor fight, yeah I want to see Fedor fight guys considered top HWs, but I think Fedor will make quick work of him. Fedor is fast enough to get inside, which takes away Arlovski's better part of the game.
I agree for the most part. But 2 things i must state, again:
(1) I'm not judging AA on this fight alone as far as his overall ability - he's looked even worse against better comp in recent fights (Werdum and Timx2). This fight simply highlights his weak ground game better than any recent fight.
(2) Not only was his ground game inactive, it was basically passive. He blocked the arm lock attempts and what else? Knowing that EliteXC likes to stand fights up quick, I'm betting he was counting on the ref and was stalling for time in the meantime. Wouldn't you agree?
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Post #17 10/6/08 2:50:42PM
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How do you like me so far?
Career record: 128-68
Season: 50-19 (#243)
Location: Land O' Lakes
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Posted by JohnnyNapalm
Posted by xxMALICExx
Dude, do you have AA listed #8 as 1 of 10 HW's that can beat AA?
No, that's called a top 10 list.
The list is followed by an explanation of what the list represents.
Reading is what makes this all clear.
Just checking. 
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It don't hurt 'til the bone shows!
You have your way, I have mine. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way. It does not exist.
The Few, The Proud, The MMA Army!!
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Post #18 10/6/08 2:54:20PM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
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Posted by JohnnyNapalm
I agree for the most part. But 2 things i must state, again:
(1) I'm not judging AA on this fight alone as far as his overall ability - he's looked even worse against better comp in recent fights (Werdum and Timx2). This fight simply highlights his weak ground game better than any recent fight.
(2) Not only was his ground game inactive, it was basically passive. He blocked the arm lock attempts and what else? Knowing that EliteXC likes to stand fights up quick, I'm betting he was counting on the ref and was stalling for time in the meantime. Wouldn't you agree?
1) I'll give you the Werdum fight. Yeah, he looked horrible in that. I can't criticize someone for looking lacklustre against big Tim. His size makes him a handful for nearly every fighter. but, Arlovski did a good job in their first fight.
2) Oh I agree. I think I even said that I thought that was his game plan. But I'm not going to criticize him for it no more than I'll criticize a great wrestler for having a ground and pound (sometimes lay n' pray) game plan. Likewise, it's not like Nelson did much either and he had the more dominant position on the ground. If anything I would blast him for not producing on the ground.
Last edited 10/6/08 3:12PM by Rush
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #19 10/6/08 3:12:07PM
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mkiv9secsupra
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 211-136
Season: 41-29 (#1810)
Location: ATL, GA
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You think AA has poor TD defense?! Who have you seen take him down at will? Obrien who was a great collegiate wrestler seriously struggled taking him down. Did you even notice that AA was the one who took Nelson down? He tripped nelson then lost his balance as he tried to fall into mount and Nelson hung on to get on top. That doesnt say anything about AA's takedown defense. And what did Nelson do that amazed you that made AA look bad on the ground? The fact that he went for the same submission over and over yet couldnt get it or the fact that he had no GnP? Arlovski did what he had to do. He was being passive knowing Nelson is a brown belt in JJ and if AA got too aggressive in trying to get back to his feet he would probly get caught in a sub. That is smart. Also AA only had a week to touch up his skills instead of the full 2-3 month training regiment.
I could skew facts as well saying Couture wouldnt survive against AA because he has such a weak chin that was exposed by Liddell KOing him twice. You are stretching the fact that Nelson got a TD and saying AA has poor TD defense when in reallity you havent given a single fact to justify your oppinion
Last edited 10/6/08 4:12PM by mkiv9secsupra
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #20 10/6/08 4:00:09PM
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mkiv9secsupra
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 211-136
Season: 41-29 (#1810)
Location: ATL, GA
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Posted by JohnnyNapalm
(2) Not only was his ground game inactive, it was basically passive. He blocked the arm lock attempts and what else? Knowing that EliteXC likes to stand fights up quick, I'm betting he was counting on the ref and was stalling for time in the meantime. Wouldn't you agree?
So......Did you know that these new age fighters have come up with this amazing little thing called....ummmm....STRATEGY. Did you ever think that this might be an outcome he was ready for and that being passive instead of getting subbed was his intention?
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Post #21 10/6/08 4:07:52PM
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JohnnyNapalm
MMA Regular
Career record: 22-14
Season: 22-14 (#5568)
Location: In a vacuum named Hoover
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Posted by mkiv9secsupra
Posted by JohnnyNapalm
(2) Not only was his ground game inactive, it was basically passive. He blocked the arm lock attempts and what else? Knowing that EliteXC likes to stand fights up quick, I'm betting he was counting on the ref and was stalling for time in the meantime. Wouldn't you agree?
So......Did you know that these new age fighters have come up with this amazing little thing called....ummmm....STRATEGY. Did you ever think that this might be an outcome he was ready for and that being passive instead of getting subbed was his intention?
Right.
Great strategy.
Lay there and wait it out instead of using the great ground skills that the blind faithful claim that AA has at his disposal 
Hopefully he gets a shot at Fedor and tries that. 3 seconds later he'll be tapping and wishing he developed his ground game when he had the chance against lesser fighters like Nelson. Use it or lose it - if he ever had it.
Last edited 10/6/08 4:24PM by JohnnyNapalm
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #22 10/6/08 4:23:44PM
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How do you like me so far?
Career record: 128-68
Season: 50-19 (#243)
Location: Land O' Lakes
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Well......since Fedor just fought Tim Sylvia in July, I figure he is not due to fight another top 10 HW until June or July of 2011. So AA has plenty of time to work on his ground game until then. But that's only if he is the lucky top 10 HW that gets picked to fight Fedor that year.
_______________________________________
It don't hurt 'til the bone shows!
You have your way, I have mine. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way. It does not exist.
The Few, The Proud, The MMA Army!!
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Post #23 10/6/08 4:32:11PM
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tdietel01
MMA Regular
Career record: 60-33
Season: 19-9 (#5755)
Location: Findlay Ohio
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Posted by xxMALICExx
Well......since Fedor just fought Tim Sylvia in July, I figure he is not due to fight another top 10 HW until June or July of 2011. So AA has plenty of time to work on his ground game until then. But that's only if he is the lucky top 10 HW that gets picked to fight Fedor that year.
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Post #24 10/6/08 5:36:44PM
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JohnnyNapalm
MMA Regular
Career record: 22-14
Season: 22-14 (#5568)
Location: In a vacuum named Hoover
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Posted by xxMALICExx
Well......since Fedor just fought Tim Sylvia in July, I figure he is not due to fight another top 10 HW until June or July of 2011. So AA has plenty of time to work on his ground game until then. But that's only if he is the lucky top 10 HW that gets picked to fight Fedor that year.
Yes, and if Andrei spends a little less time shaving the hair off his body and hanging out with Jerry Springer he might find time to do just that.
Is 3 years enough?
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Post #25 10/7/08 12:24:50PM
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WrestlersAssassin
MMA Regular
Career record: 32-17
Season: 32-17 (#2941)
Location: Arizona
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I still stand by saying that only Andrei is the only one who could beat Fedor, and thats COULD, I would still pick Fedor. Cro Cop rematch would be good and if Werdum and Gonzaga keep getting better they'd have a decent shot.
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Post #26 10/7/08 4:01:19PM
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RhythmAndStyle
MMA Regular
Career record: 70-37
Season: 32-25 (#3149)
Location: Oshkosh,WI
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don't think Fedor would be able to beat AA that fast..or at lease have little chances at Fedor..this fight would probably be a very intense match...
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Post #27 10/8/08 11:44:12AM
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pv3Hpv3p
Heavyweight Champ
Career record: 197-141
Season: 37-33 (#2654)
Location: East St. Paul, MN
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Posted by JohnnyNapalm
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
So......Did you know that these new age fighters have come up with this amazing little thing called....ummmm....STRATEGY. Did you ever think that this might be an outcome he was ready for and that being passive instead of getting subbed was his intention?
Right.
Great strategy.
Lay there and wait it out instead of using the great ground skills that the blind faithful claim that AA has at his disposal
Hopefully he gets a shot at Fedor and tries that. 3 seconds later he'll be tapping and wishing he developed his ground game when he had the chance against lesser fighters like Nelson. Use it or lose it - if he ever had it.
I understand that you don't agree or like the stragedy, but to be so sarcastic about a strategy that ended up working pretty damn well (he did get the KO afterall) doesn't seem to make much of any sense...
Maybe you don't like Arlovski, and that's fine, but do you really think that a seasoned fighter like him would devise the same strategy for fighting Fedor as Roy Nelson?!?!? C'mon now, we both know that's not the case...
If anything, I would blame the lack of action on the ground to Andrei training with a boxing coach (Freddie Roach) and not his lack of skill...
The bad comparison starts when you equate what Andrei would do against Fedor with what he did against Nelson... That just doens' t work....
No one claims that AA has an unstoppable groundgame and if they do they haven't in this thread... 14 wins... 3 subs... 10(T)KO's... this is either the record of a kickboxer with a sambo background, or the luckiest "Great ground fighter" (or whatever you called him) on the planet...
Pretty clear that AA prefers to stand and KO an opponent, so I don't really see what you're trying to bitch about here?
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Post #28 10/8/08 2:42:40PM
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JohnnyNapalm
MMA Regular
Career record: 22-14
Season: 22-14 (#5568)
Location: In a vacuum named Hoover
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Posted by pv3Hpv3p
Posted by JohnnyNapalm
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
So......Did you know that these new age fighters have come up with this amazing little thing called....ummmm....STRATEGY. Did you ever think that this might be an outcome he was ready for and that being passive instead of getting subbed was his intention?
Right.
Great strategy.
Lay there and wait it out instead of using the great ground skills that the blind faithful claim that AA has at his disposal
Hopefully he gets a shot at Fedor and tries that. 3 seconds later he'll be tapping and wishing he developed his ground game when he had the chance against lesser fighters like Nelson. Use it or lose it - if he ever had it.
I understand that you don't agree or like the stragedy, but to be so sarcastic about a strategy that ended up working pretty damn well (he did get the KO afterall) doesn't seem to make much of any sense...
Maybe you don't like Arlovski, and that's fine, but do you really think that a seasoned fighter like him would devise the same strategy for fighting Fedor as Roy Nelson?!?!? C'mon now, we both know that's not the case...
If anything, I would blame the lack of action on the ground to Andrei training with a boxing coach (Freddie Roach) and not his lack of skill...
The bad comparison starts when you equate what Andrei would do against Fedor with what he did against Nelson... That just doens' t work....
No one claims that AA has an unstoppable groundgame and if they do they haven't in this thread... 14 wins... 3 subs... 10(T)KO's... this is either the record of a kickboxer with a sambo background, or the luckiest "Great ground fighter" (or whatever you called him) on the planet...
Pretty clear that AA prefers to stand and KO an opponent, so I don't really see what you're trying to bitch about here?
Bitching?
I see yo bitch and raise yo bitch 
(1) Never called Andrei a great ground fighter - that was somebody else.
(2) Never implied he had a unstoppable ground game and i don't believe anybody else did either - great point though.
(3) Laying on the canvas and letting the ref stand the fight-up "prematurely" IMO is not a great/sensible strategy at anytime. Obviously, Andrei didn't have an answer for Nelson on the ground. And if he doesn't have an answer for Nelson's ground game, it's only going to be worse when Fedor takes him to the ground - if they ever fight.
That's my observation - or bicthservation.
BTW, when someone tries to give their honest opinion about a fight and it so happens that it doesn't make a fighter you like look good, don't take it personally and don't automatically assume they "dislike" that individual. I don't hate or seriously dislike anybody that I know personally let alone an MMA fighter that I've never met.
Last edited 10/9/08 12:50PM by JohnnyNapalm
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Post #29 10/9/08 12:49:16PM
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JohnnyNapalm
MMA Regular
Career record: 22-14
Season: 22-14 (#5568)
Location: In a vacuum named Hoover
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Posted by xxMALICExx
Well......since Fedor just fought Tim Sylvia in July, I figure he is not due to fight another top 10 HW until June or July of 2011. So AA has plenty of time to work on his ground game until then. But that's only if he is the lucky top 10 HW that gets picked to fight Fedor that year.
Damn, you must be feeling real smart right about now
Last edited 10/11/08 4:00AM by JohnnyNapalm
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Post #30 10/11/08 3:59:11AM
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