Whats strange to me about BJ GSP 2 |
| Posted By |
Message |
mikevolz
Standup Guy
Career record: 94-65
Season: 29-20 (#4236)
Location: us
|
Posted by Dooletchetoreh
Posted by Chuteboxer
Posted by jocka
Posted by Dooletchetoreh
Is how many are picking BJ Penn. These are two of my favorite fighters. I have GSP ranked 3 pound for pound and BJ close at number 4. And I would not be surprised if BJ won but I am taking GSP. Everyone saw the first fight. Let me ask you something. Try doing anything with 1 eye closed. Now try fighting like that. Ask Heath Herring how it's like fighting like that. BJ Penn only won that first round cause of an eye poke. It was accidental I think, but he badly poked his eye, one of the most damaging I have ever seen in that fight. I figured it over for GSP. But he clearly won round 2 and round 3 with 1 only being able to see out 1 of his eyes. Dont people realize had he not gotten an illegal eye poke he would have handled BJ better. And since then, both have improved but is'nt it pretty obvious that GSP has improved more. His loss to Serra was fluke. I normally dont like saying fights are a fluke but that was a fluke. The rematch proved that. My point is it was a close fight, but GSP winning a close fight after what he had done to him, why would he then struggle against BJ with a more level playing field. Its hard for me to fathom why so many are picking BJ. Its not that I dont think much of BJ, I think he is one of the greatest fighters ever. Its just that GSP is a bit better. To me I think the issue is whether or not GSP will beat him in a decision or finish him early. I say decision.
I just rewatched the fight 2 days ago, Bj won the first rd but GSP definitly won rd 2-3. Clearly BJ inflicted more damage but only in the first rd, he also gave GSP a eye poke which is why he was able to inflict that much damage. After the fight GSP mentionned that it took a whole rd for him to start seing something again so. Am not sure why it was called as a split decision it should of been a UD but thats what happend when you let it go to the judges.
On the plan of who improved the more i have to agree that GSP improved a lot more than BJ did. He was able to take BJ down in the first fight it was tuff be he still did it, his takedown are at least twice as good as they were back then so in my opinion he will be able to take him down. I think that he will do the same thin as he did with fitch, stand up a bit then take him down and then continu to stand up again take him down, he will try to make BJ think about the takedown when they are standing up.
In my opinion the fight will look like the fitch fight but i do believe that GSP will finish BJ this time
uh...dude...if GSP couldn't finish Fitch he's definitely not finishing BJ unless he gets BJ in the same position that Hughes got him in in their rematch...
I used to think BJ would blow GSP away in a rematch...now I'm not so sure. I'm thinking decision. A split one, maybe, for GSP.
That does not make any sense if GSP did not finish Fitch he would not finish BJ. Jon Fitch has a lot of heart and should get credit for not getting knocked out. Lyoto Machida did not finish Sam Hoger, so by that logic he should not finish Sokoudojou. But what happened. He very clearly finished Sokodojou. And Sokoudoujou is amazing. That logic does not work. Do you see what I am getting at hometown.
You missed the purpose of his post.
he was comparing the difficulty of finishing fitch vs finishing penn. Penn has better striking than fitch and a better chin (when has bj been rocked?) and has top flight ground game (and he is not going to be submitted). and a ton of heart.
your connection between hoger and sokoudojou made zero sense. saying he wouldn't finish sokodojou because he is 'amazing' and didn't finish hoger because of? whatever.
i think its an interesting match up, because penn's boxing has gotten better, so has his take down defense. i think he will have the edge on GSP in the striking. we are gonna see penn looking to dance around and jab and go for the dirty boxing from the clinch, and gsp looking for the takedown. I could see gsp possibly getting finished, and penn possibly loosing a decision.
not a fight id bet on unless i saw a heavy underdog, then i'd take him (if it was penn)
|
|
Post #16 8/19/08 12:19:52PM
|
|
|
fonduktoe
MMA Regular
Career record: 109-62
Season: 43-27 (#1754)
Location: Plovier, Serbia
|
i'm torn on this one
both are top p4p candidates but at ww i would give gsp the athletic edge (which he will always have at ww)
i have a feeling it will be mostly a standup affair and in that department it's pretty even imo
if penn can consistenly land his jab he could frustate gsp (penn will also have to neutralize gsp's wreslting)
i think penn will show up in top form physically and out tech gsp
|
|
Post #17 8/19/08 12:49:10PM
|
sleevey
MMA Regular
Career record: 200-118
Season: 43-26 (#705)
Location: Jacksonville,Fl
|
Wow this has been one of the better post i have read on this topic. Many good points were made but none swayed my mind on this fight. A motivated in shape well conditioned B.J Penn is the better fighter here. I agree in the fact that GSP take downs are qucik and explosive however BJ has the best TD def in the sport today and as far as being gifted B.J is not called the prodigy for nothing he has a much bigger advantage in his Jits and i see GSP getting caught on the ground.
As far as the stand up goes i give the edge to B.J watch there last fight Before B.J gased he was winning the stand up battles his jab landed consitantly and his constant head movement gave GSP fits.
When the fight went to the ground (due to a gased B.J) who could not stop the take down once he gassed GSP really did lil to no damage at all to me if B.J were to lose this fight it would be B.J beating himself.
as it has been stated before B.J has a better chin he has fought as high as heavy weight (he only weighed 185 for the fight). He has never really been rocked standing and he has fought some very solid and technical strikers. And soory to say GSP showed his chin is not as solid as BJ just re watch the serra fight.
My pick B.J Penn 4th rnd sub Arm
|
|
Post #18 8/19/08 5:14:00PM
|
jocka
In Full Mount
Career record: 128-96
Season: 35-33 (#3044)
Location:
|
Posted by mikevolz
Posted by Dooletchetoreh
Posted by Chuteboxer
Posted by jocka
Posted by Dooletchetoreh
Is how many are picking BJ Penn. These are two of my favorite fighters. I have GSP ranked 3 pound for pound and BJ close at number 4. And I would not be surprised if BJ won but I am taking GSP. Everyone saw the first fight. Let me ask you something. Try doing anything with 1 eye closed. Now try fighting like that. Ask Heath Herring how it's like fighting like that. BJ Penn only won that first round cause of an eye poke. It was accidental I think, but he badly poked his eye, one of the most damaging I have ever seen in that fight. I figured it over for GSP. But he clearly won round 2 and round 3 with 1 only being able to see out 1 of his eyes. Dont people realize had he not gotten an illegal eye poke he would have handled BJ better. And since then, both have improved but is'nt it pretty obvious that GSP has improved more. His loss to Serra was fluke. I normally dont like saying fights are a fluke but that was a fluke. The rematch proved that. My point is it was a close fight, but GSP winning a close fight after what he had done to him, why would he then struggle against BJ with a more level playing field. Its hard for me to fathom why so many are picking BJ. Its not that I dont think much of BJ, I think he is one of the greatest fighters ever. Its just that GSP is a bit better. To me I think the issue is whether or not GSP will beat him in a decision or finish him early. I say decision.
I just rewatched the fight 2 days ago, Bj won the first rd but GSP definitly won rd 2-3. Clearly BJ inflicted more damage but only in the first rd, he also gave GSP a eye poke which is why he was able to inflict that much damage. After the fight GSP mentionned that it took a whole rd for him to start seing something again so. Am not sure why it was called as a split decision it should of been a UD but thats what happend when you let it go to the judges.
On the plan of who improved the more i have to agree that GSP improved a lot more than BJ did. He was able to take BJ down in the first fight it was tuff be he still did it, his takedown are at least twice as good as they were back then so in my opinion he will be able to take him down. I think that he will do the same thin as he did with fitch, stand up a bit then take him down and then continu to stand up again take him down, he will try to make BJ think about the takedown when they are standing up.
In my opinion the fight will look like the fitch fight but i do believe that GSP will finish BJ this time
uh...dude...if GSP couldn't finish Fitch he's definitely not finishing BJ unless he gets BJ in the same position that Hughes got him in in their rematch...
I used to think BJ would blow GSP away in a rematch...now I'm not so sure. I'm thinking decision. A split one, maybe, for GSP.
That does not make any sense if GSP did not finish Fitch he would not finish BJ. Jon Fitch has a lot of heart and should get credit for not getting knocked out. Lyoto Machida did not finish Sam Hoger, so by that logic he should not finish Sokoudojou. But what happened. He very clearly finished Sokodojou. And Sokoudoujou is amazing. That logic does not work. Do you see what I am getting at hometown.
You missed the purpose of his post.
he was comparing the difficulty of finishing fitch vs finishing penn. Penn has better striking than fitch and a better chin (when has bj been rocked?) and has top flight ground game (and he is not going to be submitted). and a ton of heart.
your connection between hoger and sokoudojou made zero sense. saying he wouldn't finish sokodojou because he is 'amazing' and didn't finish hoger because of? whatever.
i think its an interesting match up, because penn's boxing has gotten better, so has his take down defense. i think he will have the edge on GSP in the striking. we are gonna see penn looking to dance around and jab and go for the dirty boxing from the clinch, and gsp looking for the takedown. I could see gsp possibly getting finished, and penn possibly loosing a decision.
not a fight id bet on unless i saw a heavy underdog, then i'd take him (if it was penn)
Call me stupid but i honestly think that Fitch has a better chin than BJ does someone remember BJ getting hit as hard and often as Fitch did, i don`t i could be wrong but i really don`t .
|
|
Post #19 8/19/08 7:14:48PM
|
Kimbo Slice's Punchout!
Career record: 204-116
Season: 47-23 (#163)
Location:
|
Posted by jocka
Call me stupid but i honestly think that Fitch has a better chin than BJ does someone remember BJ getting hit as hard and often as Fitch did, i don`t i could be wrong but i really don`t .
But, based on what? You can say that Fitch has a good chin, but how could you put his chin above someone's that you haven't even seen rocked before. If you look at GSP as a common opponent, BJ didn't get rocked, while Fitch was on more than one occasion. Also, Fitch was rocked by Jeff Joslin and knocked out by Wilson Gouveia. Penn has fought at LW, WW, MW, and LHW against some of the best in the world...and I have never seen him dazed. I can appreciate what Fitch kept bouncing back from in his last fight, but I don't think comparing his chin to BJ's is even close.
_______________________________________
It's lose, not loose!
|
|
Post #20 8/20/08 10:26:13AM
|
MikeyG
MMA Regular
Career record: 31-25
Season: 31-25 (#3611)
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere And Nowhere
|
Posted by jocka
Call me stupid but i honestly think that Fitch has a better chin than BJ does someone remember BJ getting hit as hard and often as Fitch did, i don`t i could be wrong but i really don`t .
You cant hug GSP's nuts more than that 
Penn = best chin next to Hunt, dont forget that when GSP wont be able to finish him and probably lose.
|
|
Post #21 8/20/08 10:38:43AM
|
cowcatcher
MMA Sensei
Career record: 223-120
Season: 49-20 (#64)
Location: Milwaukee
|
its getting hard to pick against gsp when he faces an opponent that he considers a threat, but i still think the mental part of fighting may be the weak link in his game. he might come out thinking that since he beat bj before that he can take it a little bit easy in this one, not to mention that he seems to want some time off but if the UFC does end up back in canada theres no way i can see him not headlining. that might be his undoing in this fight, because when it comes to the physical and technique parts of his game its hard to find a reason to pick against him against almost anyone.
on the other hand bj seems as motivated as ever right now, and the constant buzz online that hes training harder than ever does seem to hold some water and those things have really been his achilles heels(he has 2 legs) over the course of his career, motivation and preparation. the fact that his jab has always been very very solid and the fact that hes made of rubber both lead me to believe that hes going to give gsp some fits if georges wants to take it to the ground. on the feet this one is pretty even with bj having better hands and gsp having better kicks, and the chin going of course to bj. as usual in any big bj penn fight if this goes the distance or close to it youve got to go with his opponent, gsp. but i think if one of these guys is going to finish early bj has the better chance of doing so. ill take bj for now by ko/tko, but this one is a tough one to call, as it always is when you have two elite fighters.
|
|
Post #22 8/20/08 10:55:00AM
|
jocka
In Full Mount
Career record: 128-96
Season: 35-33 (#3044)
Location:
|
Posted by MikeyG
Posted by jocka
Call me stupid but i honestly think that Fitch has a better chin than BJ does someone remember BJ getting hit as hard and often as Fitch did, i don`t i could be wrong but i really don`t .
You cant hug GSP's nuts more than that
Penn = best chin next to Hunt, dont forget that when GSP wont be able to finish him and probably lose.
Actually if you read what i wrote am would not be hugging GSP nuts but Ftich`s ones and can you recall a fight were BJ has been hit has hard if you do please educate me i will go watch it right now.
|
|
Post #23 8/20/08 11:00:49AM
|
jocka
In Full Mount
Career record: 128-96
Season: 35-33 (#3044)
Location:
|
Posted by grappler0000
Posted by jocka
Call me stupid but i honestly think that Fitch has a better chin than BJ does someone remember BJ getting hit as hard and often as Fitch did, i don`t i could be wrong but i really don`t .
But, based on what? You can say that Fitch has a good chin, but how could you put his chin above someone's that you haven't even seen rocked before. If you look at GSP as a common opponent, BJ didn't get rocked, while Fitch was on more than one occasion. Also, Fitch was rocked by Jeff Joslin and knocked out by Wilson Gouveia. Penn has fought at LW, WW, MW, and LHW against some of the best in the world...and I have never seen him dazed. I can appreciate what Fitch kept bouncing back from in his last fight, but I don't think comparing his chin to BJ's is even close.
OK well prove me wrong in which fight has BJ been hit as hard as Ftich did and come back please don`t mention the fact that he fought at higher weight cause so did Fitch
|
|
Post #24 8/20/08 11:03:18AM
|
cowcatcher
MMA Sensei
Career record: 223-120
Season: 49-20 (#64)
Location: Milwaukee
|
Posted by jocka
Actually if you read what i wrote am would not be hugging GSP nuts but Ftich`s ones and can you recall a fight were BJ has been hit has hard if you do please educate me i will go watch it right now.
maybe thats all you need to say, if you cant remember bj being hit hard that speaks volumes about his stand up defense, and elusiveness......he can take one hell of a shot though, see pulver, gomi, or machida.
|
|
Post #25 8/20/08 11:06:03AM
|
MikeyG
MMA Regular
Career record: 31-25
Season: 31-25 (#3611)
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere And Nowhere
|
Posted by jocka
Posted by MikeyG
Posted by jocka
Call me stupid but i honestly think that Fitch has a better chin than BJ does someone remember BJ getting hit as hard and often as Fitch did, i don`t i could be wrong but i really don`t .
You cant hug GSP's nuts more than that
Penn = best chin next to Hunt, dont forget that when GSP wont be able to finish him and probably lose.
Actually if you read what i wrote am would not be hugging GSP nuts but Ftich`s ones and can you recall a fight were BJ has been hit has hard if you do please educate me i will go watch it right now.
1) Blatent disregard that BJ has a better chin than Fitch because Fitch's standup is nowhere near as good as BJ's.
2) The GSP nuthugging kicked in right around when you siad "call me stupid"
3) BJ dosnt take that many punches because like I said his striking is above Fitch's, and his chin is so good he could pull a Cabbage if he needed / wanted to.
Last edited 8/20/08 3:35PM by MikeyG
Edit note/reason: n/a
|
|
Post #26 8/20/08 3:29:19PM
|
Diamondback2
MMA Regular
Career record: 165-82
Season: 45-25 (#1896)
Location: Michigan
|
I can't believe people would still doubt BJ's chin.
This is the same BJ Penn that went 3 rounds with Lyoto Machida.
Let's look at the stats from that fight and compare it with the Ortiz/Machida Fight
I mean he took 19 power shots to the head from Machida.
Tito only received 2 and was knocked down once, BJ never got knocked down.
Penn was able to take Machida down more than Ortiz, and defended takedowns better.
O yeah to top it off BJ is a natural 155 lb fighter, and Machida is 205........ that's crazy
The same BJ that went 25:00 minutes with Jens Pulver in his prime, with no real gas tank, and didn't get knocked out.
The same BJ Penn that went three rounds and destroyed Takanori Gomi.
The same BJ that went 3 rounds with Matt Serra, the guy that put GSP's head in the seventh row.
The same BJ that took 20-30 or so unanswred strikes from Matt Hughes, with both arms trapped and didn't tap or get knocked out.
The guy has a chin made out of Adamantium or something!
To say Fitch has a better chin is crazy. Fitch has a much better survival instinct, when BJ gets just beat all over the place he makes mistakes and gets finished (Hughes/Penn II, Penn/Pulver, and Penn/GSP). Fitch has some of the best survival instinct of any fighter. I don't ever see anyone getting a TKO on him, a KO MAYBE but not a TKO. GSP was very close to KO'ing him several times but was playing a smart gameplan and couldn't just get the finishing punches.
But with BJ I could see someone getting a TKO but i would i never see anyone getting a KO. That's the diffrence.
Last edited 8/24/08 2:01AM by diamondback2
Edit note/reason: n/a
|
|
Post #27 8/24/08 1:59:46AM
|
jocka
In Full Mount
Career record: 128-96
Season: 35-33 (#3044)
Location:
|
Posted by MikeyG
Posted by jocka
Posted by MikeyG
Posted by jocka
Call me stupid but i honestly think that Fitch has a better chin than BJ does someone remember BJ getting hit as hard and often as Fitch did, i don`t i could be wrong but i really don`t .
You cant hug GSP's nuts more than that
Penn = best chin next to Hunt, dont forget that when GSP wont be able to finish him and probably lose.
Actually if you read what i wrote am would not be hugging GSP nuts but Ftich`s ones and can you recall a fight were BJ has been hit has hard if you do please educate me i will go watch it right now.
1) Blatent disregard that BJ has a better chin than Fitch because Fitch's standup is nowhere near as good as BJ's.
2) The GSP nuthugging kicked in right around when you siad "call me stupid"
3) BJ dosnt take that many punches because like I said his striking is above Fitch's, and his chin is so good he could pull a Cabbage if he needed / wanted to.
You think am wrong that fine by me care to make it interesting ?
|
|
Post #28 8/24/08 4:48:30PM
|
RedCloud
MMA Regular
Career record: 117-72
Season: 37-23 (#3351)
Location: Hawthorne, CA
|
BJ by Knock Out- Round One.
(Only One Way To Find Out- Hurry with the Fight Already!!!!)
Last edited 8/29/08 11:41AM by RedCloud
Edit note/reason: n/a
|
|
Post #29 8/28/08 7:31:39PM
|
AftaabehEshk
Banned
Career record: 0-0
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
|
Why do persons keep saying BJ was winning the standup round 1. He seriously poked GSP in the eye. Do you think if GSP did the same to BJ he still would have won that round. Make no sense. The fact GSP won that fight with one eye and has improved more since make me take him every time.
|
|
Post #30 8/28/08 9:15:33PM
|
|
