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Lesnar Vs Fedor??
Lesnar Vs Fedor?? |
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eseltzer
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 3-3
Season: 3-3 (#8649)
Location: southern California
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Fedor would do what Fedor always does; catch Lesnar with some fast powerful punches that would put him on Queer Street, MN, then submit him with an arm bar, rear naked choke, knee bar, hell, pick a submission. That's the beauty of Fedor's game; hurt them then submit them. It's all too often that fighters get obsessed with the knock out and don't go for the opening of a submission when they have their opponent hurt. Fedor is beyond that, he wins the easiest and best way he can.
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Post #16 8/15/08 3:28:29PM
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Smooth
Career record: 75-47
Season: 41-29 (#1810)
Location: Glen Ellyn
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I would love to see pro wrestler vs pro wrestler in Lesnar vs Josh Barnett.
Barnett would wreck Lesnar IMO.
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Proud Junior Dos Santos nuthugger
2 underdog wins (thanks to Aoki and Etim)
1-0 on Avatar bets
"I pick Matt Brown to win... by murder?" Amir Sadollah
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Post #17 8/15/08 3:59:23PM
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TH3_SaAa
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 6-3
Season: 6-3 (#7981)
Location:
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Wow more people who keep putting Lesnar in the same league as Fedor. You guys are judging Lesnars skill by 2 fights? One which was ended in 1 minute? There are so many aspects of Lesnars game that you guys havent seen yet. Submission defense? Nope herring tried no submissions on Lesnar.... Good Chin? Nope...Neither Mir or Herring got a good shot on Lesnar... Submissions? Havent seen Brock attempt a Submission in his MMA career yet... On the contrary you've seen Fedors submissions with his 15 submission wins...You've seen his submission defense against numerious fighters..and his chin against Kazuyuki Fujita when he still kept his composure after getting rocked. You just can't put these fighters in the same league.....
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Post #18 8/15/08 4:08:13PM
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casey64
MMA Sensei
Career record: 155-93
Season: 44-25 (#2004)
Location: Football Field
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Brock is not ready for Fedor, it will be awhile before he is ready to fight Fedor.
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Post #19 8/15/08 6:59:45PM
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loonytnt
MMA Sensei
Career record: 126-99
Season: 33-24 (#4027)
Location: idaho
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are you jkin? brock has had 3 fights and you think he may beat fedor down the road??!!??!?!? wow well thats what you think but what i thikn is if mir knee bared him fedor would to come on....brock is big but fedor + brock arm = tap or snap
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Post #20 8/15/08 7:37:33PM
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chubbud22
In Full Mount
Career record: 200-133
Season: 41-29 (#2297)
Location: Central Point OR
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Posted by postman
 This looks like a post you would read on sherdog
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Post #21 8/15/08 8:32:22PM
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WarWagon Never Die!
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Career record: 173-125
Season: 34-36 (#3376)
Location: talkin trash to the garbage around me
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Posted by chubbud22
Posted by postman
This looks like a post you would read on sherdog
haha, that's what I was gonna say. Please keep these kinds of completely uninformed posts to the Dawg.
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There can be ONLY 1 WarWagon
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Post #22 8/16/08 12:29:35AM
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Pitbull09
MMA Sensei
Career record: 134-69
Season: 43-23 (#1565)
Location: PA
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Posted by mrsmiley
Lesnar isn't ready for Fedor.Maybe down the road,but not now.He showed some reserve in his fight with Herring,but he's still got holes in his game Fedor would expose.At best,if Lesnar paced the bout he might be able to negate Fedor's defense in similar fashion like Mark Hunt.I think Hunt was naturaly stronger than Fedor,and that caused some problems for him.
Lesnar is a beast for only having 3 bouts,but he's a beast that can be tamed.(I know that was cheesy).Mir showed us that.
Yea, Hunt do pretty well but it would be funny seeing Lesnar pull a kimura off on Fedor
Fedor would win via murder
Last edited 8/16/08 1:24AM by Pitbull09
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #23 8/16/08 1:22:40AM
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Mastodon2
MMA Sensei
Career record: 183-108
Season: 32-23 (#4471)
Location: Newcastle England
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Fedor by armbar. Lesnar may have improved, but improvement is not exponential or even constant, everyone starts to slow down and reach their peak in time, and I think Lesnar's will come sooner rather than later.
I wouldnt give Lesnar much of a chance against Barnett or Aleksander, let alone Fedor. Atm, Lesnar is just a big muscle in the cage, I don't think he really has an MMA fighters instincts, for example when Heath gave up his back, Lesnar didn't try to get the hooks in or anything. Anyone who has watched a few episodes of TUF could tell you thats pretty much the done thing unless you have Pride rules and you want to blast some soccer kicks at their head. Lesnar just stood over him looking like he didn't really know what to do. I feel sorry for Heath, he is a real competitor but he just got outmuscled.
One of the key aspects of Martial arts is that they are designed to help a smaller man have the skills to beat bigger men (espescially Gracie Jiu Jitsu, which was founded on this principle) but with Americans and their wrestling, this isnt nessacarily the case, Lesnar showed that all it took to win was strength against another wrestler, with little in the way of technique or ring savvy really showing at all. Fedor on the other hand is a master of MMA, as close as I think we will ever come to seeing the complete package. Mir made Lesnar look like a total fool, Fedor would do it in even more spectacular fashion.
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Post #24 8/17/08 2:22:37AM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 221-124
Season: 45-23 (#281)
Location: In the cheap seats.
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Posted by Biggz
after watching brock fight, i as i think most everyone could not help but notice how much he has improved since his first fight. i also think that if he improves that much between every fight he will be a number one contender and maybe even be the HW champ before long. i also could not help but think in year or so would he be ready to fight Fedor? i know with all his drama between dana and everyone it wouldnt happen unless he left the ufc. but i really think that fedor has not fought anyone with the amount of brute force and power that lesnar has and on top of that he has great speed. if he keeps improving, i think he could be trouble for fedor DOWN THE ROAD.
what do you think about it?
ps. how many people think he was on roids while he was a "pro" wrestler?
I can't help but think he was.
The only thing I agree with is that Dana White would never let Lesnar fight outside the UFC while he's under contract.
In Mark Coleman's 19th professional fight, Fedor submitted him in under 3 minutes.
In Kevin Randleman's 23rd professional fight, Fedor submitted him in 90 seconds. It took him that long because Randleman spiked him on his head first.
Naoya Ogawa, a 6'4", 260lb wrestler with 7 pro fights, didn't even last one minute.
Mark Coleman did much better in his rematch with Fedor, making into the 2nd round. That's as good as a victory against Fedor, as the only other people who can say that they've taken Fedor beyond the first round in the last 5 years are Cro Cop and Big Nog. Tsuyoshi Kosaka and Mark Hunt made it into the latter half of the first round, which in the UFC would have been the 2nd round, so we can give them moral victories also.
They're both 31 years old right now (Lesnar is 10 months younger than Fedor). I'd say Lesnar needs 3 years of training and 6-10 more pro fights, with not more than 1 loss, before we can even have this conversation.
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Who dares, wins.
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Post #25 8/17/08 2:10:56PM
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warglory
MMA Sensei
Career record: 169-115
Season: 31-27 (#2819)
Location:
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Posted by AchillesHeel
Posted by Biggz
after watching brock fight, i as i think most everyone could not help but notice how much he has improved since his first fight. i also think that if he improves that much between every fight he will be a number one contender and maybe even be the HW champ before long. i also could not help but think in year or so would he be ready to fight Fedor? i know with all his drama between dana and everyone it wouldnt happen unless he left the ufc. but i really think that fedor has not fought anyone with the amount of brute force and power that lesnar has and on top of that he has great speed. if he keeps improving, i think he could be trouble for fedor DOWN THE ROAD.
what do you think about it?
ps. how many people think he was on roids while he was a "pro" wrestler?
I can't help but think he was.
The only thing I agree with is that Dana White would never let Lesnar fight outside the UFC while he's under contract.
In Mark Coleman's 19th professional fight, Fedor submitted him in under 3 minutes.
In Kevin Randleman's 23rd professional fight, Fedor submitted him in 90 seconds. It took him that long because Randleman spiked him on his head first.
Naoya Ogawa, a 6'4", 260lb wrestler with 7 pro fights, didn't even last one minute.
Mark Coleman did much better in his rematch with Fedor, making into the 2nd round. That's as good as a victory against Fedor, as the only other people who can say that they've taken Fedor beyond the first round in the last 5 years are Cro Cop and Big Nog. Tsuyoshi Kosaka and Mark Hunt made it into the latter half of the first round, which in the UFC would have been the 2nd round, so we can give them moral victories also.
They're both 31 years old right now (Lesnar is 10 months younger than Fedor). I'd say Lesnar needs 3 years of training and 6-10 more pro fights, with not more than 1 loss, before we can even have this conversation.
Dude, Lesnar would destroy Randleman, Coleman and Ogawa. In fact, Herring would easily defeat all three of those guys. If Coleman wasn't injured, Lesnar would have finished him in the first. I am not saying Lesnar could beat Fedor right now, but using those guys as evidence of Fedor's greatness against big wrestlers isn't very credible evidence. Fedor has never fought someone like Lesnar, even with his inexperience.
Last edited 8/17/08 2:56PM by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #26 8/17/08 2:54:37PM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 221-124
Season: 45-23 (#281)
Location: In the cheap seats.
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Posted by warglory
Dude, Lesnar would destroy Randleman, Coleman and Ogawa. In fact, Herring would easily defeat all three of those guys. If Coleman wasn't injured, Lesnar would have finished him in the first.
Irrelevant, since I wasn't talking about Lesnar.
Posted by warglory
I am not saying Lesnar could beat Fedor right now, but using those guys as evidence of Fedor's greatness against big wrestlers isn't very credible evidence.
Have you watched the fights? If you have, and you still don't agree that Fedor is more than Lesnar can handle -and will be for years - there's nothing I can say that would convince you.
Posted by warglory
Fedor has never fought someone like Lesnar, even with his inexperience.
Yes, that's true. I'm extrapolating from the two men's fights (I've seen all 3 of Lesnar's fights, and 12 or 13 of Fedor's).
The reason that the fights above are relevant is because all of those guys are better wrestlers than Fedor is, just as Lesnar would be, and it didn't help any of them (there's also no reason to think that being bigger than Fedor provides any kind of advantage). Furthermore, while Lesnar might be a better wrestler than those guys, they're all more experienced, more well-rounded MMA fighters than Lesnar is today.
By the same token, the win over Herring isn't a great measuring stick for taking a guess at how Lesnar would do against Fedor, because Herring isn't the same kind of fighter that Fedor is. The Frank Mir fight is actually be a better tool. For purposes of analysis, use the Lesnar-Mir fight, but pretend that Mir is also a striker like Chuck Liddell, and a judoka like Karo Parisyan. That's Fedor.
Last edited 8/17/08 3:22PM by AchillesHeel
Edit note/reason: n/a
2 total post edits
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Who dares, wins.
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Post #27 8/17/08 3:21:23PM
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warglory
MMA Sensei
Career record: 169-115
Season: 31-27 (#2819)
Location:
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Posted by AchillesHeel
Irrelevant, since I wasn't talking about Lesnar.
Yes you were, you were expounding upon Fedor's wins against big wrestlers in an effort to discredit Lesnar.
Have you watched the fights? If you have, and you still don't agree that Fedor is more than Lesnar can handle -and will be for years - there's nothing I can say that would convince you.
All I am saying is you can't use those wins as evidence of Fedor being able to manhandle Lesnar, because Lesnar would ALSO tool those guys in a ring or a cage. That's like saying Fedor would destroy Crocop because he manhandled Mark Coleman. Well, we saw what CroCop did to Mark Coleman as well.
The reason that the fights above are relevant is because all of those guys are better wrestlers than Fedor is, just as Lesnar would be, and it didn't help any of them (there's also no reason to think that being bigger than Fedor provides any kind of advantage). Furthermore, while Lesnar might be a better wrestler than those guys, they're all more experienced, more well-rounded MMA fighters than Lesnar is today.
By the same token, the win over Herring isn't a great measuring stick for taking a guess at how Lesnar would do against Fedor, because Herring isn't the same kind of fighter that Fedor is. The Frank Mir fight is actually be a better tool. For purposes of analysis, use the Lesnar-Mir fight, but pretend that Mir is also a striker like Chuck Liddell, and a judoka like Karo Parisyan. That's Fedor.
Herring isn't the same kind of fighter Fedor is, but not ONE fighter whom Herring has faced has dominated him the way Lesnar did. Yes, Lesnar didn't finish him, but that was a combination of him being cautious (in order to get a much needed win), and inexperienced. As Bas has talked about on Inside MMA, if Lesnar were to drop mroe elbows instead of punches, as well as knees, it's highly likely he would have finished Herring.
I am not saying Lesnar would beat Fedor, we all know what Fedor can do. However, Fedor (nor any other credible heavyweight besides Mir and Herring), has faced a man with the talent, size and raw power that Lesnar has. The closest example we have is Hunt, and as inexperienced as he is, he almost locked in a kimura on Fedor through sheer willpower and strength. I am pretty confident that Lesnar is way more powerful than Hunt is.
Lesnar should not be taken lightly, even from Fedor.
Last edited 8/18/08 12:27PM by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #28 8/18/08 12:26:38PM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 221-124
Season: 45-23 (#281)
Location: In the cheap seats.
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Posted by warglory
Yes you were, you were expounding upon Fedor's wins against big wrestlers in an effort to discredit Lesnar.
When I wrote about Randleman, Coleman and Ogawa, I was talking about how Fedor has done against wrestlers, not how Lesnar has done. I don't know where I lost you, so I'm not sure how to clarify further.
Posted by warglory
All I am saying is you can't use those wins as evidence of Fedor being able to manhandle Lesnar, because Lesnar would ALSO tool those guys in a ring or a cage.
How Lesnar would handle a wrestler has no bearing on how he would handle Fedor. How Fedor has handled wrestlers in the past has something to do with how he would handle Lesnar. I know I'm repeating myself, but I don't know what needs explanation.
Posted by warglory
That's like saying Fedor would destroy Crocop because he manhandled Mark Coleman.
No. It isn't. Cro Cop is nothing like Mark Coleman. Lesnar is something like Mark Coleman.
Posted by warglory
Herring isn't the same kind of fighter Fedor is, but not ONE fighter whom Herring has faced has dominated him the way Lesnar did. Yes, Lesnar didn't finish him, but that was a combination of him being cautious (in order to get a much needed win), and inexperienced. As Bas has talked about on Inside MMA, if Lesnar were to drop mroe elbows instead of punches, as well as knees, it's highly likely he would have finished Herring.
Okay, so explain how this tells us something about a matchup with Fedor, because it isn't readily apparent.
Incidentally, Jake O'Brien dominated Herring in much the same way that Lesnar did, just not so much, and without breaking his eye socket just after the opening bell.
Posted by warglory
I am not saying Lesnar would beat Fedor, we all know what Fedor can do.
No, you're saying that Fedor's past fights against wrestlers don't provide insight into how he would handle a wrestler.
Posted by warglory
However, Fedor (nor any other credible heavyweight besides Mir and Herring), has faced a man with the talent, size and raw power that Lesnar has.
Oh, I see now. You think Lesnar is something that MMA has never seen before. Um... Er...
Posted by warglory
The closest example we have is Hunt, and as inexperienced as he is, he almost locked in a kimura on Fedor through sheer willpower and strength.
Yeah, I remember. Trigg was shouting "Shut! Up!" in disbelief, which I thought was really funny. That was a crazy fight. Hunt made it more than 8 minutes with Fedor before getting caught in a submission. I think he surprised the heck out of everybody. Props to him. I don't see how this is supporting Lesnar's position, though. It seems to suggest that being bigger and stronger than Fedor means that... um... that you'll get caught in a submission.
Posted by warglory
I am pretty confident that Lesnar is way more powerful than Hunt is.
By your logic, Jake O'Brien would give Fedor a tough fight.
Posted by warglory
Lesnar should not be taken lightly, even from Fedor.
I don't think Fedor would take Lesnar lightly; I think he'd submit him in the first round.
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Who dares, wins.
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Post #29 8/18/08 2:38:49PM
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Have it!!!
Career record: 136-71
Season: 43-27 (#735)
Location: Newcastle, UK
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I think Fedor would TKO brock in the first round. Brock would rush in, fedor would move away and clock him. That would be all she wrote.
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"There is not a sports drink formulated by any scientist that will hydrate you more than your own urine. When it comes to fight time, the day of my fight I don't eat a single thing — all I do is drink my own urine until I defecate pure urine. That's how I know that my digestive system is completely empty."
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Post #30 8/18/08 2:57:27PM
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