More fedor discussion, but its different than the usual |
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wiggum
Standup Guy
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Career record: 170-80
Season: 49-21 (#129)
Location: Southwest
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What do ya'll think about fedor dropping to lhw?...not that he needs to since he's clearly dominating his class....but its and interesting thought...hes about 230-235 which is a bit average to a bit small on the hw side of things...and hes a flabby 230 at that, if he got rid of the flab, and cut weight he could make 205.....a bit bigger lhw too...imagine that, a quicker more agile and stronger fedor....craziness!
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Post #1 8/14/08 2:50:09PM
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seanfu
In Full Mount
Career record: 90-55
Season: 31-19 (#5037)
Location: Fort Wayne IN
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no, it would go a little more like this, OMG what a close fight for Fedor. That huge (huge) weight cut droped his speed quite a bit and he looked confused as hell at the speed differencebefore judo tossing his opponent into the ground and armbarring him. He was neck and neck at what would've been a close decision.
That's about right. The fact is that Fedor at 230 to 235 is already him dropping weight. Probablt about 10 pounds of dead weight. And unless he felt like dedicating quite a bit of his time and energy to go against his genetics it just wouldn't happen.
Also, Fedor is fast, agile, and technical against 245ers. Sure he got Randleman but the slam he took to beat Randleman was huge and the Monster isn't very versatile.
Fedor dropping 25 (35) pounds to fight at LHW is just bad. And even if he managed it without destroying his entire gas tank he would still come up short against many at LHW (7 or 8 out of top 10.)
Not to completely bash you or anything. Just look at what happened to Vera, I told everyone exactly what was going to happen and it did. Some genius made a post on here abour Matt Hughes rejuvination his career by dropping to 155 when he already cuts around 20 to 25 pounds to make 170.
Last edited 8/14/08 4:30PM by seanfu
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #2 8/14/08 4:27:29PM
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Pookie
Heavyweight Champ
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Career record: 203-92
Season: 52-18 (#56)
Location: 707
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Posted by seanfu
no, it would go a little more like this, OMG what a close fight for Fedor. That huge (huge) weight cut droped his speed quite a bit and he looked confused as hell at the speed differencebefore judo tossing his opponent into the ground and armbarring him. He was neck and neck at what would've been a close decision.
That's about right. The fact is that Fedor at 230 to 235 is already him dropping weight. Probablt about 10 pounds of dead weight. And unless he felt like dedicating quite a bit of his time and energy to go against his genetics it just wouldn't happen.
Also, Fedor is fast, agile, and technical against 245ers. Sure he got Randleman but the slam he took to beat Randleman was huge and the Monster isn't very versatile.
Fedor dropping 25 (35) pounds to fight at LHW is just bad. And even if he managed it without destroying his entire gas tank he would still come up short against many at LHW (7 or 8 out of top 10.)
Not to completely bash you or anything. Just look at what happened to Vera, I told everyone exactly what was going to happen and it did. Some genius made a post on here abour Matt Hughes rejuvination his career by dropping to 155 when he already cuts around 20 to 25 pounds to make 170.
Dropping weight makes you faster not slower... lol it just effects your energy and endurance since your in a "weaker state" physically being dehydrated and such.
Fedor cuts no weight. Theres a difference between losing pounds from training and cutting weight, a huge difference. When fighters cut weight alot of it has to do with water weight. If hes going against genetics by cutting water weight, then so is every fighter who cuts weight.
Yeah fedor is very fast for heavyweights and at lhw the speed difference in the fighters would decrease, but hes still faster than 95% of the LHW's out there in both Footwork and Handspeed.
Vera is one fighter who didnt do well cutting weight, i could name over 100 who have. You just have to let your body get used to it, and vera wasn't.
His gas tank probably would go down, but ive seen the guy go hard for 20 minutes and still have more than enough to go on, the only way i see him gassing is in a title fight and i cant think of too many fighters that could last til the 4rth and 5th rounds with him.
Him dropping to LHW isnt "just bad", its just unnecessary. 
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Post #3 8/14/08 4:45:04PM
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seanfu
In Full Mount
Career record: 90-55
Season: 31-19 (#5037)
Location: Fort Wayne IN
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First of all "cutting weight" is a technicality. I cut 20 pounds for wrestling. Only 5 to 8 are water. Technicality. Next, you're gonna tell me that hand speed gets higher when dried out? (which I'm sure you will choose to pick apart because "fighters rehydrate after weigh in." ) Trust me here, that handspeed is improved for about 30 to 60 seconds of the fight untill someone that size goes, oh shit the 40 pounds I dropped to make weight (but only "cut" 15) kida sucks.
Also, after the body is done dropping 10 pounds it isn't harder at all to lose more weight? water weight droppage is only around the 10 to 15 pound mark for someone so big.
Also, Vera was a very quality Greco wrestler, so I'm assuming he was at least a little experianced at cutting weight.
And Fedor being "faster than 95percent of all the LHWs is a pretty rediculus statement, this guy isn't Arlovski. You got me on the number of fighters able to go into the deep rounds but the fact is one of the biggest factors in such a weight cut is mobility. That would mean he couldn't get close if most of the LHWs didn't want him to.
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Post #4 8/14/08 5:04:47PM
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wiggum
Standup Guy
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Career record: 170-80
Season: 49-21 (#129)
Location: Southwest
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Actually the decrease in weight, as in body mass/actual weight, not water weight for cutting, does increase speed and mobility because you have less lbs to you...i wrestled and had to cut weight and i boxed and had to cut weight for that as well.....before season began i would come in a bit flabby cuz i wasnt staying in shape...and generally about 15-20lbs over what i wrestled at....i dropped about 10lbs of flab weight from practice and getting into shape, and the extra 10lbs in water cut before a match.....its not that hard to do and its not that hard to figure out the differnece between getting a cut physic from losing actual weight and dehydrated physic from losing water and nutrients weight......yeah vera did it wrong, that happens and one example doesnt make a point true, wait till the jardine fight before sending the jury out...rich franklin did it wrong the first time against rivera and came back an expert at it.....tito oritiz and forrest griffin both generally walk around 235 range, and theyre still in shape and not flabby, THEN they cut the rest when they have a fight coming up and start training, then they cut water weight night before to make 205...joe riggs used to fight at heavy, cut the flab and made 170 for a few fights.....you can say all you want about genetics, bottom line fedor has extra flab he can loose, if he dropped 10 lbs of actual weight he would be sitting at the 220-225 range just like chuck liddell idoes before he starts training for a fight.....it can be done, and if he does it right and given that fedor is mr. gameplan i think he can, then it would only make him more effective at a lighter weight...but like the earlier poster said, its just unnescary...but thats why we have forums, to discuss hypothetical situations, so lets get back to that and discuss how he would perform and dominate against other 205'ers
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Post #5 8/14/08 5:33:31PM
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gsquat
MMA Sensei
Career record: 121-77
Season: 47-23 (#266)
Location: TC, MI
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Weight cuts have different effects on different people. Michael Bisping cut a bunch of weight and looked faster than ever. However Brandon "lazy" Vera cut weight and it was all he could do to throw a punch. Its not that he was slower, just exhausted from his weight cut.
Now I think Fedor would be like Bisping. He'd be faster, but so would the opponents he'd face (more than what he's used to). Fedor is what he is because of his fighting mentality and confidence. Training does have a lot to do with it, but there are no blank canvases in MMA or any sport for that matter. Just better or worse starting points. Two opposite ends of the spectrum for example: Jorge Gurgel... He has so much knowledge and technicality, but not the inherited fighter mentality. Ross Pointon... he's got heart and will throw down with anyone, but doesn't have the skill level necessary to compliment that mentality. Great combo's of both are found in the best fighters.
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Post #6 8/14/08 5:56:56PM
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seanfu
In Full Mount
Career record: 90-55
Season: 31-19 (#5037)
Location: Fort Wayne IN
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You guys make good points. I disagree when it comes to someone of that size and genetics (yes I brought that up again), but I won't argue further since we can't go ask him to make the cut. Don't get me wrong, not trying to bash fighters or people and I would invite him to go to 205 because it would make a lot of exciting matchups but we'll see (assuming he eventually runs out of freakshow payday bouts.) But I do disagree. Oh well.
Last edited 8/14/08 6:24PM by seanfu
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #7 8/14/08 6:17:57PM
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loonytnt
MMA Sensei
Career record: 126-99
Season: 33-24 (#4027)
Location: idaho
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imo fightin at 205 would be really bad, guys are faster and can do i lot more on the ground imo, HW and LHW are so dif, that like 170 and 155 the one thats 155 some of the time is a lot faster
but why do to 205 when you kill anyone youfight at HW?
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Post #8 8/15/08 7:53:04PM
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