For Penn, Lightweight is Right Weight |
| Posted By |
Message |
Muay-Thai_Mogwai
MMA Regular
Career record: 172-91
Season: 46-24 (#832)
Location: Missory
|
B.J. Penn’s clearly excited about the prospect of rematching UFC welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre in December, but the prospect of the bout reveals far more potential downside than payoff for Penn, and the sport itself.
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/for-penn-lightweight-is-right-weight-14012
Last edited 8/12/08 6:52PM by Muay-Thai_Mogwai
Edit note/reason: n/a
|
|
Post #1 8/12/08 6:51:56PM
|
The Big Ape
Career record: 113-111
Season: 34-35 (#3015)
Location: Canada
|
It's not too often that you will hear me say this, but, I think Sherdog is right.
Now I must go wash out my mouth as there is an awful taste there.
_______________________________________
Forum Signature
|
|
Post #2 8/12/08 7:10:03PM
|
Twenty20Dollars
MMA Sensei
Career record: 168-91
Season: 47-23 (#640)
Location: KC,MO
|
I think LW is for Penn and i think GSP has progessed from their first fight and will win the second fight.
|
|
Post #3 8/12/08 7:28:38PM
|
crushedbacon
MMA Regular
Career record: 169-100
Season: 37-26 (#2734)
Location: Lethbridge
|
I absolutely agree. So whats the plan if BJ wins? Stupid. Is he gonna fight twice as much as other champions defending the title as it should be? Or is he gonna drop the lightweight title and move up 4 good? So many questions. Its not fair to lots of other fighters who are getting to the title contention point in their careers. I think if BJ wants to move up to fight for the welterweight title he should forfeit his lightweight title first. I would say the same thing if anderson wanted to move up to Light heavy and fight for the title.
|
|
Post #4 8/12/08 7:31:36PM
|
The Origional Playground Bully
Career record: 181-100
Season: 51-19 (#22)
Location: Minnesota
|
Yeah- I've been saying this for a while now (the trouble is getting people to listen). I completely understand the spectical and draw of GSP/BJ. It's a great money maker, and its sure to headline what we can expect to be the best card of the year on Dec. 27.
I've heard conflicting stories as to whether this fight wil be for a belt or not. I'd be all for it if they can get an athletic commission to grant a five round fight without a title defense. But I really don't like the thought of a multi-division champion. If you count Penn/Sherk which was technically an interim title defense, BJ has defended his belt exactly once. GSP is the same.
We all know that both of these guys have the ablility, physical gifts, and age to reign supreme in their respective weight classes for what feels like a decade. But the fact is- neither has done it. A fight between them now has the potential to stand historically as one of the greatest fights of all time. It would certainly qualify as a "Super Fight". But, what does it do for the career of GSP if he loses?
Here is a guy who is one of the most popular athletes in the sport, at a point in his career where he could be staring at the beginning of one of the greatest championship reigns in history. And he'll have to put that belt on the line against Penn. If Penn wins, he'll likely defend each belt once a year. How long could it take before GSP even gets a chance at taking his belt back?!
Not to mention the ramifications of the entire Belt structure of the UFC. BJ then holds two belts, defends one belt every six months. TUF locks up another belt for nine months out of the year. That leaves us with potentially one belt which gets defended multiple times in a given year. This hardly seems like a good idea.
Both of these guys are young, and at the top of their game. This sport is still in it's infantsy as well. Let these guys go out there and destroy the competition of the next couple of years. There is plenty of time to get this fight together. 20-30 years from now fans could be talking about a "golden era" where divisions were dominated for years on end by the likes of BJ Penn, GSP, and Anderson Silva. Instead the powers that be would rather pad the wallet right before the holidays.
I'm all about this fight if the UFC can get a five-rounder without the belt. But I don't see why either fighter would risk their career for a meaningless fight, so that's not likely to happen. This fight has the potential to creat nothing but long term problems. And with the exception of making some extra cash, I do not see the insentive to put this fight on right now. All in all, I'd be WAY WAY WAY more interested in seeing GSP fight Anderson Silva at a catch-weight.
_______________________________________
And as El Guapo always says- "God speed, and party on. Whoap!"
|
|
Post #5 8/12/08 7:37:11PM
|
monkeybrawler
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 182-119
Season: 40-28 (#2608)
Location:
|
Its like this you can't have MMA fighters defend there title as much as a boxer because you run into lack of competition and boring fights. Look at what happened with Chuck a few years back and look at Anderson now no one is giving him crape for moving up and down. BJ doesn't want to defend his title over and over again he wants to fight the best fighters who ever they may be. He wants to put together the fights everyone wants to see just like mma fans want. Everyone wants to see the best fight the best to see who is better. He has beat the best at 155 now on to 170 and GSP is the best there no one can beat GSP so if BJ wins well no need to fight the others move on up he has fought at HW before so let him try and prove he is the best everyone praised Grace for fighting everyone well this is the only way Penn can do it one weight class at a time.
|
|
Post #6 8/12/08 7:48:00PM
|
StriderXero
MMA Regular
Career record: 43-36
Season: 2-4 (#8771)
Location:
|
I'm ok with BJ going for the WW title. and the the UFC calling him the first and only man to hold belts in 2 differant weight classes. But I would prefer him to giving up one of the titles if he manages to win the WW title.
IF BJ is willing to defend his titles 2-3 times each, a year.......meaning having him fight 4-6 times a year, I'm all for it. But I really dont know the guy is gonna want to do that.
I still prefer him giving up one of the titles, if he manages to win WW.
|
|
Post #7 8/12/08 8:10:14PM
|
nickcuc547
MMA Sensei
Career record: 219-128
Season: 45-25 (#813)
Location:
|
i don't see what's the matter with these two fighting. how can anybody say they would rather see bj fight florian or gsp fight alves. bj vs. st. pierre 1 was as close of a fight as I have ever seen and nothing was settled as to who the better fighter is, both divisions will survive no matter who the champ is.
|
|
Post #8 8/12/08 8:30:38PM
|
Aether
MMA Sensei
Career record: 120-82
Season: 38-23 (#2266)
Location: Canada
|
I would much rather see him fight at welterweight. It's boring to watch title fights where one person is an overwhelming favourite in every fight. Sure it's sort of cool in a way to see a dominant champion demolish people, but it's a lot more fun to see two of the best fighters on the planet decide who's the best in a close matchup. He can defend both belts or vacate the title and the issue of him "being unfair" to guys like florian becomes a non-issue.
I don't get why so many people are against this. You'd rather see him demolish florian in one/two rounds? I'd rather see a competitive matchup.
|
|
Post #9 8/12/08 8:35:09PM
|
Kimbo Slice's Punchout!
Career record: 204-116
Season: 47-23 (#163)
Location:
|
I think if BJ were to win, I think one of two things would happen
1. BJ calls out Anderson
2. BJ retires
Now, hear me out...before BJ lost to Pulver in their first fight, his intention was to win the belt and walk away from the sport. Obviously that didn't happen, so here we are today. He finally got the chance at the LW belt again and won it. I'm sure he wanted to defend it against Sherk, just so nobody could say he wasn't the real champ. Now that he accomplished that, he wants a rematch with GSP. I think he wants to prove he's the best...and beating GSP at WW would be the nail in the coffin. Once he's accomplished everything that's attainable, I don't think he'll fight any longer.
_______________________________________
It's lose, not loose!
|
|
Post #10 8/12/08 8:37:14PM
|
kaduey
Standup Guy
Career record: 223-124
Season: 44-26 (#347)
Location: Canada
|
Posted by grappler0000
I think if BJ were to win, I think one of two things would happen
1. BJ calls out Anderson
2. BJ retires
Now, hear me out...before BJ lost to Pulver in their first fight, his intention was to win the belt and walk away from the sport. Obviously that didn't happen, so here we are today. He finally got the chance at the LW belt again and won it. I'm sure he wanted to defend it against Sherk, just so nobody could say he wasn't the real champ. Now that he accomplished that, he wants a rematch with GSP. I think he wants to prove he's the best...and beating GSP at WW would be the nail in the coffin. Once he's accomplished everything that's attainable, I don't think he'll fight any longer.
Well that was a long time ago when BJ talked about walking away from the sport. Times ahve changed. There is alot of money to be made and alot more reputation to be gained. There are still alot of guys out there for BJ to face and he has alot of years left in the sport.
|
|
Post #11 8/12/08 8:58:09PM
|
The Origional Playground Bully
Career record: 181-100
Season: 51-19 (#22)
Location: Minnesota
|
Posted by monkeybrawler
Its like this you can't have MMA fighters defend there title as much as a boxer because you run into lack of competition and boring fights. Look at what happened with Chuck a few years back and look at Anderson now no one is giving him crape for moving up and down. BJ doesn't want to defend his title over and over again he wants to fight the best fighters who ever they may be. He wants to put together the fights everyone wants to see just like mma fans want. Everyone wants to see the best fight the best to see who is better. He has beat the best at 155 now on to 170 and GSP is the best there no one can beat GSP so if BJ wins well no need to fight the others move on up he has fought at HW before so let him try and prove he is the best everyone praised Grace for fighting everyone well this is the only way Penn can do it one weight class at a time.
If BJ thinks that he is head and shoulders above the 155 pound division (and he's probably right), then he should forfeit that belt and move up. I completely understand wanting to fight against the best- thats the only way you'll ever be considered the best. But why is it necessary to earn a belt that you have no intention of defending?! If Penn thinks that there is nothing more to prove in the lightweight division, then leave. Make the perminant move up, and lt the "lesser" fighters fight it out to determine who is the best of the rest. Don't lock up that belt for no reason. (He's got the money, just buy a replica to put in the trophy room. No one is going to deny that was his belt to lose.)
The ONLY reason why BJ is not going to give up his current belt is because there's a chance he'll get beat by GSP. The LW belt is the safety net to his legacy. He'll get beaten by GSP, then move back down and dominate in hopes that eveyone will forget the beating that he will have taken at the hands of GSP. I'll never deny that BJ is a top tier fighter. But I'd say at times he carries himself as a top level punk.
I wasn't impressed by Dana/BJ with the WWE antics after the last fight, they couldn't wait to thrust Penn into the limelight. GSP didn't even get his moment in the sun before Penn shat all over the parade. Leave that stuff to the McMann family.
_______________________________________
And as El Guapo always says- "God speed, and party on. Whoap!"
|
|
Post #12 8/12/08 8:58:22PM
|
The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
|
There's good points being made on both sides of the argument. As a fighter you have to ask yourself from GSP's perspective who right now poses a bigger threat at 170 than BJ Penn? Honestly I don't think anyone else poses near as much of a threat as BJ does.
For BJ Penn who poses a threat at 155? Nobody the UFC has quite frankly. Kenflo certainly earned his #1 contender status, and as much of a fan of Kenflo as I am I'm not disillusioned to the point that I think he could beat BJ. Some DREAM matchups would be interesting but how likely is that to happen? (snowball's chance in hell I'd say)
Rarely in any sport's history do you get a chance to see two INCREDIBLE athletes at the top of their game at the same time go into competition. Tiger Woods is dominating golf right now, but how would he fare against some of the golf greats like Jack Nicklaus or Gary Player in their time? Certainly we'd like to think Tiger Woods would dominate, but we can't know because they differ so vastly in age.
How about the Kobe of now vs. the Michael Jordan of 15 years ago? The 85 bears vs. the 78 steelers? The list goes on and on.
With this being MMA I hesitate to say "let them dominate their divisions for a couple years" because we all know how dangerous this sport is. Someone like Shogun in a year and a half's time can go from arguably the #1 p4p fighter on the planet to not even mentioned in a top 20 due to a knee injury.
These are things I think we should all consider.
_______________________________________
"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
|
|
Post #13 8/12/08 11:19:30PM
|
wrona666
In Full Mount
Career record: 169-90
Season: 41-29 (#2118)
Location: Atascadero, California
|
Id say why would you want either of these fighters to loose at this point..They each only have one true title defense...I know that it will be a big draw, but let them defend there title a couple more times and build it up even bigger and still get a big draw when they are defending.....I'm not saying i don't want to see this fight I'm just saying i don't think it makes much sense at this point in time they both have a lot of good fights in their own division...
|
|
Post #14 8/12/08 11:25:36PM
|
Pookie
Heavyweight Champ
| 1 |  |  |
1 |
Career record: 203-92
Season: 52-18 (#56)
Location: 707
|
Posted by Jackelope
There's good points being made on both sides of the argument. As a fighter you have to ask yourself from GSP's perspective who right now poses a bigger threat at 170 than BJ Penn? Honestly I don't think anyone else poses near as much of a threat as BJ does.
For BJ Penn who poses a threat at 155? Nobody the UFC has quite frankly. Kenflo certainly earned his #1 contender status, and as much of a fan of Kenflo as I am I'm not disillusioned to the point that I think he could beat BJ. Some DREAM matchups would be interesting but how likely is that to happen? (snowball's chance in hell I'd say)
Rarely in any sport's history do you get a chance to see two INCREDIBLE athletes at the top of their game at the same time go into competition. Tiger Woods is dominating golf right now, but how would he fare against some of the golf greats like Jack Nicklaus or Gary Player in their time? Certainly we'd like to think Tiger Woods would dominate, but we can't know because they differ so vastly in age.
How about the Kobe of now vs. the Michael Jordan of 15 years ago? The 85 bears vs. the 78 steelers? The list goes on and on.
With this being MMA I hesitate to say "let them dominate their divisions for a couple years" because we all know how dangerous this sport is. Someone like Shogun in a year and a half's time can go from arguably the #1 p4p fighter on the planet to not even mentioned in a top 20 due to a knee injury.
These are things I think we should all consider.
 i need to spread the love
|
|
Post #15 8/13/08 12:52:16AM
|
|
