Title contention: who should and will fight for a title? |
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Loot613
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 165-114
Season: 36-22 (#2579)
Location:
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Alot of speculation has been going around lately about #1 contenders, champions and who should fight who. I've set up some questions that I will answer myself after a few have weighed in on the subject. I will concentrate on UFC. Please rank as you see fit and add fighters you think are relevant to the discussion, btw I will put confirmed fighters who will fight for titles down too just for levity.
UFC
Light Weight? (Florian, Sherk, T. Griffin, Guida)
Welter Weight? (D. Sanchez, T. Alves, KOS, Swick)
Middle Weight? (D. Maia, D. Henderson, Okami, Cote)
Light Heavy Weight (Rampage, Liddel, W. Silva, Machida, Shogun, T. Silva)
Heavy Weight (Lesnar, Mir, Kongo, Valasquez, Werdum)
#1 Do you think champions should fight champions (ie. GSP vs Penn)
#2 Do you beleive in gatekeepers? guys that should not fight for the title but should have to be beaten for a shot. (ie. Rich Franklin, K. Parisyan)
#3 Who should move up or down in weight class?
Last edited 8/12/08 12:40AM by loot613
Edit note/reason: n/a
3 total post edits
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Post #1 8/11/08 10:24:31PM
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Khaos
In Full Mount
Career record: 152-97
Season: 43-27 (#1674)
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
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Posted by Loot613
Heavy Weight (Lesnar, Mir, Kongo)
No way is Kongo close to a f**king title shot, Cain Velasquez is closer to a title shot the Cheick Kongo, who's on a 1 fight winning streak(over a virtual no name).
Last edited 8/11/08 10:47PM by Khaos
Edit note/reason: Censorship Issues
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Post #2 8/11/08 10:46:48PM
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Mchubb316
MMA Sensei
Career record: 217-120
Season: 45-25 (#1353)
Location: Southern Oregon
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I think Florian has some impressive wins to justify a title shot. I think Sherk needs to win a couple fights to get another shot. If Alves beats Sanchez, he will most likely get a title shot. Machida is next in line for a title shot at LHW, I think he will beat T. Silva, and fight Griffin. Mir gets his shot in December, and it would not suprise me if they make the Kongo vs Lesnar a title contender fight. As far as having title holders fight one another, I think as long as they can make weight, and the fight makes sense, I have no problem. BJ vs GSP's first fight was a good one, and a second fight makes sense to me.
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Post #3 8/11/08 10:48:10PM
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Loot613
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 165-114
Season: 36-22 (#2579)
Location:
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Khoas, that's why i'm asking for your guys opinions, don't lash out this is a chill discussion.
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Post #4 8/11/08 10:54:08PM
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RIP Evan Tanner 1971-2008
Career record: 108-58
Season: 44-26 (#796)
Location: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
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looks pretty good. i'd add shogun and t.silva at lhw, swick and kos at ww and clay guida to lw.
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Post #5 8/11/08 10:54:09PM
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Loot613
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 165-114
Season: 36-22 (#2579)
Location:
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I've edited my post to reflect suggestions, anyone else? and how about the gatekeeper subject and who should move up or down?
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Post #6 8/11/08 11:00:42PM
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mk1630
Standup Guy
Career record: 164-90
Season: 46-22 (#993)
Location: B-lo,New York
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Clay definately needs at least 3 solid wins before he gets a shot. I think after Mir, Werdum should get a shot. If Chuck wins i would guess he would get the next shot, then the winner of T. Silva/ Machida. In WW, Alves/ Sanchez winner should get it after GSP fights BJ for the belt. MW it should be Okami after Cote, but there are a few guys that are one fight off from being close to a shot. At LW, it should be Kenny, and im not too sure who deserves one after that.
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Post #7 8/11/08 11:43:55PM
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skatenate
MMA Regular
Career record: 114-66
Season: 25-15 (#4562)
Location:
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#1 contenders
LW: Florian
WW: D. Sanchez (only just)
MW: Okami
LHW: W. Silva/Machida
HW: Mir (id say lesnar will be right behind him, and will get the next chance)
a) i agree, as long as a) they both make weight and b) it makes sense, they are the best in the divisions, they should go for it.
b) i think gatekeepers are there, not by there choice, but maybe by danas choice. the main one that comes to my mind is Karo Parisyan.
c) anderson silva should go to 205 if he is successfull against Okami, that would be a good move for him, and would be a great challenge for him
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Post #8 8/12/08 12:16:45AM
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RNC
Standup Guy
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Career record: 132-73
Season: 48-22 (#628)
Location: New Jersey
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Posted by Loot613
Alot of speculation has been going around lately about #1 contenders, champions and who should fight who. I've set up some questions that I will answer myself after a few have weighed in on the subject. I will concentrate on UFC. Please rank as you see fit and add fighters you think are relevant to the discussion, btw I will put confirmed fighters who will fight for titles down too just for levity.
UFC
Light Weight? (Florian, Sherk, T. Griffin, Guida)
Welter Weight? (D. Sanchez, T. Alves, KOS, Swick)
Middle Weight? (D. Maia, D. Henderson, Okami, Cote)
Light Heavy Weight (Rampage, Liddel, W. Silva, Machida, Shogun, T. Silva)
Heavy Weight (Lesnar, Mir, Kongo, C.Valasquez)
#1 Do you think champions should fight champions (ie. GSP vs Penn)
#2 Do you beleive in gatekeepers? guys that should not fight for the title but should have to be beaten for a shot. (ie. Rich Franklin, K. Parisyan)
#3 Who should move up or down in weight class?
Excluding fights for the title already set to take place
LW:
#1 - Florian
#2 - Tyson (if he beats Sherk)
WW:
#1 - Winner of Alves/Sanchez
#2 - Koscheck (with one more win)
MW:
#1 - Okami
#2 - Winner of Leben/Bisping
LHW:
#1 - Lyoto Machida (if he wins against Thiago)
#2 - Chuck Liddell (if he wins against Rashad)
* In the event that Lyoto loses, Chuck moves up, Thiago takes Chucks spot
HW:
#1 - Werdum
#2 - Cain Velasquez
First, Champions should fight champions, for many reasons. First, when the champ cleans their weight class out, like Anderson Silva at MW or soon to be GSP at WW, what other choice do they have to change divisions and fight the best. They need competition. Then the whole #1 P4P fighter ranking comes into play. It can prove once and for all who the better fighter is. If both fighters can make weight then I think its great.
Second, there will always be gate keepers, whether you want them or not. For instance, Tyson Griffin vs Sean Sherk. If Griffin beats sherk, he will be coming off of 5 straight wins, all against tough opponents. He clearly deserves a shot. On the other hand, if Sherk wins, he does not deserve a title shot. His last fight was a loss against the champ, and this would be his first win. He needs a few more victories before he is ready. So yes, there will always be gate keepers.
Lastly, on moving up and down in weight classes. The only fighter I see really benefiting from changing weight classes would be GSP. GSP should clear out the WW division with a few more fights and move up to fight Anderson Silva for the MW title. GSP is a huge 170 and could easily make 185. I think that he would have the best shot at beating Anderson. GSP would be able to take him down at will, and if Hendo can GNP Anderson, GSP certainly can. He is also skilled in JJ, so I don't see him getting submitted by Silva. If GSP could manage to keep the fight on the ground, he certainly could grind out a victory. Other than that, Hendo should stay at 185, he has the best shot at the belt there and Vera should stick to 205 and never even think about going back to HW.
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Post #9 8/12/08 12:17:22AM
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Pskinner_mma314
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-34
Season: 25-34 (#5049)
Location: San Antonio, Tx
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Yes champions should fight champions just because of the p4p fact.
I hate that there will always be gatekeepers, but its a well known fact that they will always be there. I see Rich Franklin move up to LHW and I kinda feel sorry for him. He has proven that he can beat everybody at MW except Silva. Now as soon as he trys to avoid being a gatekeeper, Silva makes his move up to LHW as well, so he is kinda screwed at this point if Silva ever wins the LHW title.
Anyone else think of that.
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Post #10 8/12/08 1:54:46AM
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RNC
Standup Guy
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Career record: 132-73
Season: 48-22 (#628)
Location: New Jersey
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Posted by Pskinner_mma314
Yes champions should fight champions just because of the p4p fact.
I hate that there will always be gatekeepers, but its a well known fact that they will always be there. I see Rich Franklin move up to LHW and I kinda feel sorry for him. He has proven that he can beat everybody at MW except Silva. Now as soon as he trys to avoid being a gatekeeper, Silva makes his move up to LHW as well, so he is kinda screwed at this point if Silva ever wins the LHW title.
Anyone else think of that.
The only reason Anderson doesn't want to fight at 205 is because of Lyoto. But if Lyoto gets a title shot and loses, I could see Anderson moving up to 205 and becoming champion. Depending on who gets a shot first, Lyoto could be fighting Forrest or maybe even possibly Liddell.
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Post #11 8/12/08 2:19:03AM
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loller90278
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 164-119
Season: 34-19 (#2756)
Location: Redondo Beach
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if karo wins his next shot, i say he gets his title shot just so he can stop talking about it. we'll see a nice grinding match between him and gsp
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Post #12 8/12/08 4:36:11AM
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iceliddell240
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 129-82
Season: 43-26 (#2479)
Location: USA
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lw-give guillard time and he might get the lw title but i truly believe bj will b the champ in both divisions leavin melvin and florian as gate keepers
ww- Penn, alves/ kos are the best tests, gsp will want a rematch
mw-anderson silva will own that dicision for a while but his next opponents after cte will probably b okami, henderson, and who knows...mayb bisping
lhw-chucks gonna get a shot, his first defense after beatin griffin should be either lyoto or shogun
hw-nog will prob beat mir but its close, they both submission guys, randy will come back and be champ(i guartentee it)...cain velasquez and shane carwin will probably have title shots in the future
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Post #13 8/12/08 11:58:43AM
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Aether
MMA Sensei
Career record: 120-82
Season: 38-23 (#2266)
Location: Canada
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well I think after the last couple of events pretty much all of the contenders are obvious so I'll just answer the questions.
1. Yes, as long as they either defend their current title regularly or vacate the title and stay in their new weight class so an interim champ can be crowned.
2. A gatekeeper is not a position that people have assigned to them by the UFC. Gatekeepers create themselves by hitting a certain skill level and being unable to improve beyond that level. It isn't that they aren't allowed to have title shots, it's that they can't EARN title shots because they aren't able to break the skill barrier required to beat top level fighters. Rich Franklin can't possibly be considered a gatekeeper since no one can beat him other than Anderson. (he could become a gatekeeper at 205 though)
A gatekeeper is just a guy who can't make the jump from good to great. They sit around the upper tier of B level fighters and the lower tier of A level fighters.
3. I'd like to see Anderson and BJ move up in weight, I don't see anyone in their divisions beating them.
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Post #14 8/12/08 3:34:09PM
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Aether
MMA Sensei
Career record: 120-82
Season: 38-23 (#2266)
Location: Canada
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rich franklin is not a gatekeeper guys... I think you're misunderstanding the term. Rich franklin is just a #1 contender in a division ruled by a dominant fighter. If Rich is a gatekeeper at 185 the gates have been closed for a long ass time.
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Post #15 8/12/08 3:40:01PM
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