UFC 87 Brock Lesnar analysis |
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The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Well Lesnar pulled off what I figured he would if he was going to beat HH. The Minnesota Martial Arts Academy Man Hump Special LnP Victory. (MMAAMHSLnPV for short  ) All credit goes to him and his camp for the victory. Still, even with this victory I can't give the man all the credit in the world. He certainly showcased his wrestling credentials (which I've always believed are there) and his cardio was very impressive. Below are a couple paragraphs analyzing Brock's performance.
He showed excellent wrestling control- but he showed little effort to finish the fight by anything other than the occasional big wound up GnP shot. He could have taken and held HH's back many, many times during the fight. Every time he earned full mount he lost it 5 seconds later. Against a gassed out and significantly weaker opponent I might add. He was still making mistakes in there that he absolutely 100% should not have made and once faced against a high level BJJ guy with an active guard he will be made to pay for. Mark my words true on that one.
One thing I was impressed with was Greg Nelson's tutelage. I've never been overly fond of Greg Nelson's training, but he obviously built a solid gameplan and convinced his fighter to stick to it. Props to both Greg and Brock for that. First with the faking of the double leg to the overhand right and then sticking to the wrestling top control to ride out the victory. Negative props for Lesnar trying to celebrate and make fun of HH by riding him like a bull at the end and losing his dominant position in doing so.
From a technical standpoint his standup still looked pathetic, but his shots for the takedowns looked phenomenal. Before people start screaming about the big shot landed being a testament to his standup skills- He obviously pushed the hell out of that punch with pure muscle. HH rolled right out of it and even though he had a decent sized mouse over his eye because of it there was absolutely 0 snap to the punch. That same set up and that same punch thrown by someone with legit standup skills would have KO'd HH on his feet. For a good example watch and more importantly LISTEN to when GSP landed his overhand right on Fitch. You could clearly hear the "snap!" sound of the punch. That's the sound that tells you the punch was thrown and landed correctly. He still showed a non commital jab (although effective to maintain space) and clumsy footwork. I'd look for his standup to be his major focus before his next fight.
All in all- I'm still lukewarm about him. He has potential, but he's got to mature in certain areas. His skillset will take a lot of time to develop with all of that muscle. It's going to work against him in BJJ and in the standup game. He could also stand to ease up on the tearing of the mic out of Rogan's hand and the unnecessary giddiness (like riding his opponent like a bull)
Post your thoughts and your flames. I've got my shields up, bitches! 
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"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
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Post #1 8/10/08 4:34:53AM
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JohnnyNapalm
MMA Regular
Career record: 22-14
Season: 22-14 (#5568)
Location: In a vacuum named Hoover
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Heath's face resembled Hamburger Helper at the end of the fight and his ribs won't be ready for ticklin' any time soon after the knees he absorbed and you have the brilliance to say he was "man humped"?
Good call.
Now tell us how white Kongo is.
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Post #2 8/10/08 4:42:01AM
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Mr_Dead_Sexy
MMA Regular
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Career record: 218-110
Season: 47-22 (#147)
Location: So Cal
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I remember one point in the match where I swear it looked like the keylock was wide open, but he was just using it to hold HH's arm down. And not that I'd expect it, but it looked like arm-triangles were there at a few points.
The thing that really turns me off about Lesnar is his cockyness. He was pushed to the moon and back by WWE. He was the boy there for awhile. So he was kinda used to getting it his way. I'm really hoping Dana doesn't try to market him as the face of the UFC HW division. He's a phenomenal athlete, don't get me wrong, but the arm pumping, laughing, celebratory BS talking he did in the last couple seconds, not a fan. I honestly thought Heath was going to head butt or something when they hugged at the end. I'm not saying that I'm against fighters celebrating a win, but act like you've been there before.
I really want to see Lesnar vs a top notch wrestler before I say much about him. If not a wrestler, then someone with above average TD defense. The HW division is shallow atm, almost the level when we had Eilers and Buentello as serious contenders. Here's my quick synopsis of next possible opponents.
O'Brien - Probably on his way out. This would ensure that.
Cain - Not yet. Guarantee that. Lose/lose for the UFC.
GG - Possibility.
Kongo - I don't think so. UFC will probably try to build him up again.
Wellisch - Maybe.
Coleman - If he heals/doesn't fight Shogun.
The Insane One - Won't prove much. But hey, who else do they have?
From this, Gonzaga looks like the best bet, and what would probably be his toughest fight. Never been much a fan of Kongo. His ground game has been improving, but it's still nothing to write home about.
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Post #3 8/10/08 4:51:30AM
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Hammer of the Gods
Career record: 218-128
Season: 50-20 (#185)
Location: Hudson, NH
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If you've seen Herring fight before, he ALWAYS looks like that. Even against Brad Imes he was moused up and bleeding, and Imes barely laid a finger on him. He just bruises easily after a decade in the sport, and cutting his teeth in Vale Tudo.
Brock looked better than last time cardio wise, although Herring didn't have the skill set to really make him work in there. His wrestling was solid, but thats the one thing we DID know about Brock coming into this.
Overall, if they give him the right opponents and build him, he could develop a deadly skillset in a hurry, but he has more than a few weaknesses that size and strength can't overcome.
Last edited 8/10/08 5:04AM by svartorm
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #4 8/10/08 4:59:13AM
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The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Posted by JohnnyNapalm
Heath's face resembled Hamburger Helper at the end of the fight and his ribs won't be ready for ticklin' any time soon after the knees he absorbed and you have the brilliance to say he was "man humped"?
Good call.
Now tell us how white Kongo is.
Favoring control over finishing your opponent is LnP (/man humping) Making no attempt at furthering your position because you favor the control and GnP you can lay out from side control is LnP. The shots he landed on HH in some instances were big, yes, but it wasn't the kind of ground and pound you see getting the fight stopped. It was the kind of GnP you see laid out on a fighter to soften them up and earn points. Hence, LnP.
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"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
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Post #5 8/10/08 5:00:56AM
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MuSh
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 28-18
Season: 16-13 (#5902)
Location:
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i wasnt impressed at all. yes i was rooting for HH. But the way BL won and his cockiness at the end he still thinks this is WWE. show some class, A-hole; is all i want to say to BL.
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Post #6 8/10/08 6:11:55AM
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Obey The Stank-Nasty
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Career record: 144-84
Season: 43-26 (#1754)
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Well I agree with you jack, it just really didn't seem that he was concerned with finishing the fight, but merely maintaining the status quo. We all know he has quality top game and control, not to mention beastly strength, and lets face it speed as well. I've really never seen anyone his size move that quick. But Lesnar is still too green. The fact that Herring was able to hang in there for three rounds (and trust me it was painful for me as i was rooting for him) Lesnar had more than enough oppertunities to finish the fight and just maintained for the UD win.
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Props To Grappler0000 for making the Stank-A-Tar
Bas "El Guapo" Rutten: "Godspeed and Party On"
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Post #7 8/10/08 6:31:18AM
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NeaRMisS
MMA Regular
Career record: 62-50
Season: 3-8 (#8687)
Location:
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I was just annoyed that brock wouldn't take any chances at all. LNP 100%. I really wanted to see him punch more when he had him on the ground. He had the back of heath like 3 times in the fight? He never once put the hooks in, and just went straight back to a standard position from wrestling. He needs to try and attempt to finish his fights imo. Looked like he was scared to let it all hang out. Maybe it was the game plan, but overall was disapointed.
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Post #8 8/10/08 6:39:31AM
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Aether
MMA Sensei
Career record: 120-82
Season: 38-23 (#2266)
Location: Canada
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I think the LnP was a result of him being terrified of getting caught in a submission honestly. If you look at his previous fights he just goes wild on the guys but it seems like he really wanted to just play it completely safe and get a much needed win over a big name. I also think that he was afraid of being penalized for hitting the back of the head after he was warned. Hopefully we don't see the same thing in every fight.
I also think his showboating was garbage and he has a really bad attitude. He came over from pro wrestling where all of that stupid crap is standard and he doesn't seem to realize that this sport is all about respect. It was a pretty stark contrast with the GSP fight where a true champion showcased an amazing skillset and then got on his knees and bowed to his defeated opponent. I lost a lot of respect for Lesnar, and I kind of want to see him get submitted or KOed. He has potential but he needs to learn LnPing your way past one ranked HW doesn't make you king of the cage. Talking smack in pre-fight interviews to sell tickets is one thing, doing it in the cage or after a victory is classless.
Last edited 8/10/08 6:54AM by aether
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #9 8/10/08 6:53:02AM
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Bas Will Destroy Your Liver
Career record: 135-71
Season: 50-20 (#26)
Location: The Eye MN
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Posted by Svartorm
Overall, if they give him the right opponents and build him, he could develop a deadly skillset in a hurry, but he has more than a few weaknesses that size and strength can't overcome.
I agree that the UFC needs to pick Brocks opponents carefully. Allow him some time to continue to learn. They need to give him opponents that he can handle so he can continue to get his confidence up.
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I got a lot to teach but even more to learn
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Post #10 8/10/08 7:51:28AM
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mrsmiley
MMA Sensei
Career record: 151-105
Season: 31-28 (#4236)
Location:
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I was impressed with Brock.I was cheering for Heath,but I think Brock showed improvment from the Mir fight.
The biggest thing I want to see though,is Brock's chin tested.The guy doesn't have amazing standup,but with just one punch he was able to knock Mir,and herring both on their buts.That's some serious power. I say give him Gonzaga next.That would prove to be a very intersting fight.
Last edited 8/10/08 8:25AM by mrsmiley
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #11 8/10/08 8:24:30AM
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nickcuc547
MMA Sensei
Career record: 219-128
Season: 45-25 (#813)
Location:
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whether he was boring or not is arguable, this isn't: He was better than anybody I have ever seen in just their third professional fight. he still looked pretty raw but he took out one of the toughest veterans in the sport, give the man some love.
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Post #12 8/10/08 8:26:16AM
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mrsmiley
MMA Sensei
Career record: 151-105
Season: 31-28 (#4236)
Location:
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Posted by nickcuc547
whether he was boring or not is arguable, this isn't: He was better than anybody I have ever seen in just their third professional fight. he still looked pretty raw but he took out one of the toughest veterans in the sport, give the man some love.
Yeah you can't deny that.For only having three fights the guy is exceptionaly scary.
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Post #13 8/10/08 8:38:15AM
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imanidiot777
Standup Guy
Career record: 95-67
Season: 43-27 (#1251)
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted by nickcuc547
whether he was boring or not is arguable, this isn't: He was better than anybody I have ever seen in just their third professional fight. he still looked pretty raw but he took out one of the toughest veterans in the sport, give the man some love.
Yeah really, forget how it was done he beat Heath Herring in only his THIRD professional fight. I think the reason he didn't go for the finish is because he wanted to take no risks and just wanted to get a UFC win under his belt. And for whoever said "look like you've been there before", he HASN'T been there before lol. The raw physical tools he possesses are INSANE. If he can get some experience and learn more stand-up and subs/defense he's going to be a BEAST.
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Post #14 8/10/08 8:38:35AM
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The Axe Kick Murderer
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Career record: 159-78
Season: 51-19 (#39)
Location: who's asking?
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I was Impressed by Brock.
But I disagree with you, Brock did exactly what he should have done. And that was use his strenght and control to nullify Herrings BJJ, no way should he have played JJ with Herring on the ground, Herring purposely gives up his back (ala Huerta, and him against Nog) because he has very good defence and always seems to be able to escape by rolling into the persons guard, If Brock would have taken Herring's back he would end up on his back, and his corner knew that (every time Brock has mount herring gave his back).... The position he had for most of the fight was good, he couldnt throw alot of big shots because Herring was putting his face on the mat and pointing the back his head towards Lesnar so he couldnt hit him much, he let Herring choose what positon he stayed, on his back or on his knees, either way Brock was winning the fight.
As far as his stand up goes, obviously needs alot of work (alot of boxing), but he's got great raw power and speed, which already make him dangerous, especially if he fakes a takedown and throws a right. Defenately needs sme work on his boxing.
And as far as is celebration went, really dont care much for it, Lesnar is a natural showman and competitor. He still knows how to work a crowd..
Last edited 8/10/08 10:41AM by juanez13
Edit note/reason: n/a
3 total post edits
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Post #15 8/10/08 9:45:10AM
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