Please give James Irvin and Justin Levens a break... |
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go vegan
Career record: 185-100
Season: 43-27 (#832)
Location: Cincinnati
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There's so much hate spreading around about Irvin and to a lesser extent Levens. I understand how these drugs are "performance enhancing", but you have to realize that they have to be able to train to have a chance to win. A person can't train effectively when they are in horrible pain all of the time. This is their job and how they earn money - not just a hobby they do to entertain us. Irvin has had a long history with horribly painful injuries and I'm sure that had a lot to do with this. He took this fight after many others turned it down and probably trained his ass off for a fight he knew he was going to lose. During that training he could have re-aggrivated nagging injuries and took pain meds so he didn't have to drop out of a fight that was important to the UFC and to some of the fans. All of the negative talk is ridiculous and obviously not well thought out. Try using some empathy PLEASE and put yourself in their shoes. These are athletes dealing with injuries normal guys like me will never feel, but at least realize what he tested positive for is not necessarily such an awful thing for him to have done. Thank you if you made it this far.
That being said, I personally don't like Irvin, but I do empathize with his situation. It's pretty similar to what Joe Riggs is/has going/gone through.
Last edited 7/30/08 12:41AM by xposipx
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #1 7/30/08 12:40:45AM
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Mayhem13
MMA Sensei
Career record: 158-93
Season: 48-22 (#232)
Location: Ohio
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true, but they know that the substances are bannes....or should
plus Levens was was over 10 times the limit!!!!!
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Post #2 7/30/08 12:50:31AM
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go vegan
Career record: 185-100
Season: 43-27 (#832)
Location: Cincinnati
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Posted by Mayhem13
true, but they know that the substances are bannes....or should
plus Levens was was over 10 times the limit!!!!!
Do you really think being 10 times over the limit of pain killers would have helped his performance? Of course they know they're banned, but I genuinely think Irvin was doing it for the good of the UFC/sport. Do you not think it's a weird coincidence that a scheduled bout actually did not take place? When does this EVER happen? Affliction was most likely aware of some kind of situation with the Levens bout.
Last edited 7/30/08 1:08AM by xposipx
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #3 7/30/08 1:06:58AM
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soundboy1
MMA Regular
Career record: 91-56
Season: 40-29 (#2056)
Location: nyc
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Besides in helping train I don't see how painkillers cna help you fight. have you ever taken a Vicodin? Not exactly tough guy meds.
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Post #4 7/30/08 2:10:01AM
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The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Good message. I'm all for hanging roid users out by their neck, but this is a different story. Fighters shouldn't be hopped up on pain meds necessarily, but I know a hundred guys that load up on ibuprofen and analgesic creams before and after fights. Granted they're not as potent as some of the drugs being tested positive for, but they basically have the same effect.
In the case of being 10x over the limit it's not as bad as it sounds. Most meds will put a person's levels at 10x or even 50x their normal levels.
Another thing to consider is that the fighters may not realize they're breaking rules by taking these meds. In many cases they have doctor's prescriptions so why would they assume it's illegal?
Main point is- these are not performance enhancing drugs. These are pain mitigators, probably prescribed, and I'd be willing to extend some good faith to the fighters in these instances.
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"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
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Post #5 7/30/08 3:40:52AM
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The Cowboys Mod
Career record: 142-101
Season: 41-29 (#1705)
Location: Maryland
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Posted by Mayhem13
true, but they know that the substances are bannes....or should
plus Levens was was over 10 times the limit!!!!!
Actually, closer to 100x. The limit's 120 ng/mL. He tested at 10,141. That's over 84x over the limit.
_______________________________________
“Believe in yourself. Believe in your own potential for greatness. Believe that you can change the world. It is something that is within each of us.”
– Evan Tanner 1971-2008
MMA Playground's Stankie Mod-Keep It Clean Or Else I'll Send Stankie After You! (And Cowboys Mod Until May '09 because the Redskins got "hippysmacked" and I lost my first av bet as a result)
Members getting the Stankie treatment: 15
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Post #6 7/30/08 6:51:04AM
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Heavyweight Chump
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Career record: 127-62
Season: 53-17 (#30)
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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I honestly have no remorse for these guys. I think it's pretty much a slap in the face to those guys who DIDN'T try to mask the pain and fought their fights. No fighter is ever 100% going into a fight. If you're too hurt to fight, don't f'ing fight. You're jeopardizing your whole career by doing crap like this.
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Post #7 7/30/08 9:26:23AM
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McLovin'!!!
Career record: 176-83
Season: 55-15 (#5)
Location: Florida
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Posted by emfleek
I honestly have no remorse for these guys. I think it's pretty much a slap in the face to those guys who DIDN'T try to mask the pain and fought their fights. No fighter is ever 100% going into a fight. If you're too hurt to fight, don't f'ing fight. You're jeopardizing your whole career by doing crap like this.
I understand what you're trying to say, but Irvin has had A LOT of injuries in his career and was just coming off a broken foot injury. To add to that he had only 5 weeks to prepare for the BIGGEST fight of his career(Ton of pressure on his shoulders, etc..). Put yourself in his shoes and think about the WHOLE situation he was faced with. I honestly can't condone him for this, but I also don't think it is necessary to lash out at him and debase him as a fighter(not directed at you, only to those who have on this site). Just my two cents.
Last edited 7/30/08 10:13AM by wolfman
Edit note/reason: n/a
_______________________________________
“Believe in yourself. Believe in your own potential for greatness. Believe that you can change the world. It is something that is within each of us.”
-Evan Michael Tanner 1971-2008
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Post #8 7/30/08 10:11:42AM
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I miss the outside
Career record: 115-64
Season: 45-24 (#281)
Location: 360 Washington State
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I do not have a bleeding heart.....
and understand that these are grown men and that they make their own decisions....
I do not feel the same type of anger towards some one who fails their roid test as I do some one who fails for pain meds or weed...
There is clearly a difference in my opinion (not up for debate)
But doing what these guys did was dishonest and still wrong....
My example it doesn't matter if you did'nt cheat on your girl because if you lied about going out to the Party/Bar.... All she care about is that you Lied
So when people make bad decisions like this it doesn't really matter what their excuses are what matters is that they broke the rules and got caught
They may not loose their jobs but it will take a win back their fans
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Post #9 7/30/08 10:25:15AM
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McLovin'!!!
Career record: 176-83
Season: 55-15 (#5)
Location: Florida
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Posted by Kracker_Jap
I do not have a bleeding heart.....
and understand that these are grown men and that they make their own decisions....
I do not feel the same type of anger towards some one who fails their roid test as I do some one who fails for pain meds or weed...
There is clearly a difference in my opinion (not up for debate)
But doing what these guys did was dishonest and still wrong....
My example it doesn't matter if you did'nt cheat on your girl because if you lied about going out to the Party/Bar.... All she care about is that you Lied
So when people make bad decisions like this it doesn't really matter what their excuses are what matters is that they broke the rules and got caught
They may not loose their jobs but it will take a win back their fans
Yeah, testing positive for steriods is MUCH worse than being positive for pain meds...
_______________________________________
“Believe in yourself. Believe in your own potential for greatness. Believe that you can change the world. It is something that is within each of us.”
-Evan Michael Tanner 1971-2008
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Post #10 7/30/08 11:14:45AM
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FrankTheTank1181
Standup Guy
Career record: 115-56
Season: 48-22 (#352)
Location: Washington State
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They shouldn't be gettin' killed as bad as they are. However, they deserve a little, cause they should know what they can and cannot take under the rules.
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Post #11 7/30/08 6:30:43PM
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ThE ThIcKFrEAkNeSs
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Career record: 211-121
Season: 41-29 (#1925)
Location: Paducah,KY
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I can't figure out why these people are defending Irvin and Levens. True they may have been injured and that is why they took the meds but they still took them. It was the easy way out to a payday for these guys. To say that vicodin or pain killers do not enhance your performance is ridiculous. These meds are given to mask PAIN. Pain is what you receive from someone like Anderson Silva and to try and mask it for any reason is cheating. Sorry.......but it is. I mean if I weigh 150 lbs. and sign to fight at 235 and use steroids to get to that weight you would say I was a cheater. To me it is a similar situation. Yes they needed the meds to deal with the pain but they knew with this sport comes pain and if they can't handle the day in/day out pain then maybe they need to take up golf or tennis.
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Post #12 7/30/08 6:53:01PM
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The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Posted by jimmypockets
I can't figure out why these people are defending Irvin and Levens. True they may have been injured and that is why they took the meds but they still took them. It was the easy way out to a payday for these guys. To say that vicodin or pain killers do not enhance your performance is ridiculous. These meds are given to mask PAIN. Pain is what you receive from someone like Anderson Silva and to try and mask it for any reason is cheating. Sorry.......but it is. I mean if I weigh 150 lbs. and sign to fight at 235 and use steroids to get to that weight you would say I was a cheater. To me it is a similar situation. Yes they needed the meds to deal with the pain but they knew with this sport comes pain and if they can't handle the day in/day out pain then maybe they need to take up golf or tennis.
No amount of pain killers will improve your KO reaction and no amount of pain killers will stop your limbs from snapping in a submission. 90% of fighters are on pain killers in one form or another when they walk into the cage. The ones who are on the prescription pain killers are actually at a bigger disadvantage because they sacrifice clarity of mind and balance for greater pain tolerance.
_______________________________________
"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
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Post #13 7/30/08 9:23:42PM
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go vegan
Career record: 185-100
Season: 43-27 (#832)
Location: Cincinnati
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Plus, saying "everyone else fights injured" is becoming a big cliche. Look at the injuries he has dealt with in comparison to others and you will see....there is no comparison.
Last edited 7/30/08 10:32PM by xposipx
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #14 7/30/08 10:32:25PM
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Taylor8766
In Full Mount
Career record: 157-88
Season: 44-26 (#954)
Location: Ontario, Canada
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i could see pain killers being banned, but what gets me is pot it should not be banned, it does absolutely nothing to enhance ur performance
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Post #15 7/31/08 12:36:05AM
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