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johnnycache

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Posted by nate22


Posted by Omega


Posted by nate22

Judo + Boxing for mma? I'd seriously say no to that and consider BJJ and Muay Thai.




Shhhhh, don't tell Karo that.

Honestly dude that is a very ignorant statement.



Sorry, please don't think I do not have the upmost respect for the need of both of these disciplines and I certainly will not be telling that to Karo!

I was considering more so as a base for MMA, if you are restricted to learning the two, BJJ and Muay Thai would be more beneficial than Judo and Boxing.

I'm not disagreeing with you and if you think otherwise, i'd be glad to listen as to why?



Notice there was a financial qualifier. . . BJJ is usually quite expensive and both arts you mention are hard to find in many, many parts of the US. Judo's usually almost free, and done just about everywhere. I did disclaim that both would require some alterations to make an MMA transition.

Yeah, if you're dealing with a perfect world, by all means train at a great BJJ academy and then walk down the street to an equally good Thai boxing school - but those arts are NOT all that's out there, and they aren't the only way to play.
The shidokan and kyukoshin karate organizations have turned out good american fighters for years, and there are judoka with some amazing ground and clinch skills. Muay-jay-jay is a mantra people pick up when they're learning about martial arts, but the best fighters are open to whatever helps their game.

There are some weaknesses in the muay-thai/BJJ combo, believe it or not.
BJJ shares a flaw with judo in that it's typically a gi art and takes refining to use in no-gi situations. Training for sport bjj can lead you to a passive back game that you will have to adjust when your opponent can freely punch and slam.

Muay thai fighters don't have particularly rarified hands, and the kicks they are infamous for become less useful vs a takedown specialist.. Muay thai teaches a high stance that's not particularly good for sprawling. Boxing has a stance that has to be adjusted for mma as well. No one outside art prepares you for the MMA arena.


Post #16   1/15/07 11:38:43PM   

strikefirstgear

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Posted by Omega

BJJ or Submission for Ground
SAMBO, Judo or Greco For Throws
Thai for knees and Elbow
Boxing for hands and body movement
Karate, Kickboxing or Tradition TKD for smart kicks

Plyometrics for strength conditioning



All great points. If your lucky you can find a well rounded (and hopefully experienced) instructor who teaches more than one or two of those. These days it seems like with MMA on the move every Karate studio is claiming they teach "Mixed" Martial Arts.

Also add wrestling to the list. At my gym the ones with wrestling background ALWAYS seem to have an advantage on the ground. Wish I had done more of that back when.

Post #17   1/17/07 2:37:31AM   

Omega

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Yeah, don't get me started with that shit. They actually advertise it in NAPMA, how you can make extra money teaching MMA. Or if you teach more than 1 style you are MMA.

Post #18   1/17/07 12:27:05PM   

strikefirstgear

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Posted by Omega

Yeah, don't get me started with that shit. They actually advertise it in NAPMA, how you can make extra money teaching MMA. Or if you teach more than 1 style you are MMA.



Going to be alot of that in the future. Just like anything else. When it gets big everybody jumps on board. Great thing about this sport though is it all gets sorted out in the octagon.

A well trained fighter is obvious and as for the other...

Last edited 1/17/07 3:22PM server time by strikefirstgear
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #19   1/17/07 3:21:37PM   

Unkoman

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If you want to build punching power- start with balistic plyometrics, throw in a heavy bag and shodow boxing.

All this is useless though if you are not punching right. Drop in to a boxing club and talk to the trainer let him show you some stuff. Keep in mind everyones punching is a little different depending on body type.

Train core - not only for muscular endurance, but also for strength and for power.

Some people are born great strikers but most of us have to work at it.

Post #20   1/19/07 12:03:54PM   

nate22

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Posted by johnnycache


Posted by nate22


Posted by Omega


Posted by nate22

Judo + Boxing for mma? I'd seriously say no to that and consider BJJ and Muay Thai.




Shhhhh, don't tell Karo that.

Honestly dude that is a very ignorant statement.



Sorry, please don't think I do not have the upmost respect for the need of both of these disciplines and I certainly will not be telling that to Karo!

I was considering more so as a base for MMA, if you are restricted to learning the two, BJJ and Muay Thai would be more beneficial than Judo and Boxing.

I'm not disagreeing with you and if you think otherwise, i'd be glad to listen as to why?



Notice there was a financial qualifier. . . BJJ is usually quite expensive and both arts you mention are hard to find in many, many parts of the US. Judo's usually almost free, and done just about everywhere. I did disclaim that both would require some alterations to make an MMA transition.

Yeah, if you're dealing with a perfect world, by all means train at a great BJJ academy and then walk down the street to an equally good Thai boxing school - but those arts are NOT all that's out there, and they aren't the only way to play.
The shidokan and kyukoshin karate organizations have turned out good american fighters for years, and there are judoka with some amazing ground and clinch skills. Muay-jay-jay is a mantra people pick up when they're learning about martial arts, but the best fighters are open to whatever helps their game.

There are some weaknesses in the muay-thai/BJJ combo, believe it or not.
BJJ shares a flaw with judo in that it's typically a gi art and takes refining to use in no-gi situations. Training for sport bjj can lead you to a passive back game that you will have to adjust when your opponent can freely punch and slam.

Muay thai fighters don't have particularly rarified hands, and the kicks they are infamous for become less useful vs a takedown specialist.. Muay thai teaches a high stance that's not particularly good for sprawling. Boxing has a stance that has to be adjusted for mma as well. No one outside art prepares you for the MMA arena.





Great post thanks for that Johhny.

Post #21   1/19/07 12:12:20PM   

Scott_Evil

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What would people recommend if one already knows their weakness? I for damn sure have fists of 'pillow', but I know that I can wrestle pretty well. I've wanted to focus primarily on wrestling & grappling arts.

So what do I do? (besides the obvious "Join an academy you 'tard" or "Just quit n00b" would be appreciated) Oh, and please keep in mind the current assumptions that not everyone has $ to burn..

Post #22   1/19/07 12:42:52PM   

Omega

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LOL, completely dependent on if we're still talking about MMA. Because you're going to have to learn to punch if you are.

Post #23   1/19/07 12:47:54PM   

Scott_Evil

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Posted by Omega

LOL, completely dependent on if we're still talking about MMA. Because you're going to have to learn to punch if you are.



I'm definitely still talking about MMA . I know I'd still have to throw strikes, but I'm more a fan of the likes of Couture, Parisyan, and Fedor. I guess not everyone can be a Liddell or Cro Cop, ya know?

I guess I can use the basketball analogy: to be a good player, you gotta know how to pass, dribble, and shoot (at least)- but that doesn't mean you can't train yourself to be *real* good at one, right? Those are three different skills sets (similiarly to MMA: striking/grappling/cardio?) that some players are naturally more adept at one then the other.

Ok, maybe I should've been more specific- what can a n00b like me do in the Los Angeles/San Fernando Valley area? I saw your post in another thread that you yourself have an academy. Maybe you can point a brutha in the right direction?

Last edited 1/19/07 1:05PM server time by Scott_Evil
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #24   1/19/07 1:04:27PM   

Omega

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Not a problem are you willing to travel to the Glendale area because there's a non profit team over there out of the Glendale Parks and recreation. BJJ/SAMBO mostly but they have a striking program as of last year from what I hear.

Post #25   1/19/07 1:23:09PM   

Scott_Evil

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Saweeeett.. Glendale is definitely not out of the question. I'll google up their Rec & Parks I guess and see what they've got.

I've also thought about enrolling in the Hayastan Acedemy in North Hollywood (Gokor & LeBell). So far they've produced Parisyan who I really like, and they focus on no-gi Judo, Sambo, and Jiu-Jitsu, the stuff I wanted to try out anyways. Any opinion on that? I'll still drop in of course, but I'd like to hear from others.

Post #26   1/19/07 1:40:06PM   

Omega

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They're actually have a tournament coming up. You will get beat up at that academy (emphasize the wiiillll). Gokors stuff is more of what I do. I like throwing guys and being on top, just ask my wife (I can't believe I just went there). The Parks and Rec of Glendale are closely associated with those guys.

Post #27   1/19/07 1:43:12PM   

flaw

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Posted by Omega

throwing guys and being on top, just ask my wife (I can't believe I just went there). of

Hahaha
Well thanks everyone and please post more. I am a pretty good striker but im buying a heavey bag because I need to be able to punch alot and not tire my arms out like I usually do. I punch fast and hard and it seems to work I just put so much of my self into it

Post #28   1/20/07 6:14:53PM   

loller90278

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if anybody is around the redondo/torrance/hermosa/manhatten beach area in socal..

on 5th street and pch theres South Bay jiu Jitsu and Boxing works door to door... fairly cheap and every monday instructors from boxing works come to south bay jiu jitsu to help the stand up game.. nice people also and learn really fast..

come whatever day you like, any hours

Post #29   1/21/07 2:16:01PM   

Red_Elvis

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Posted by nate22

Judo + Boxing for mma? I'd seriously say no to that and consider BJJ and Muay Thai.



Yeah, but BJJand Muay Thai aren't free. For that you are forking out minimum $100+ per month.

He was talking in terms of budget training.

It'll be a fine day when you can do BJJ and MT for free. Most likely though a cold day in hell.

Edit: Just read that this has been sorted out. Teach me to post before reading the whole thread!

Last edited 1/21/07 5:40PM server time by Red_Elvis
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #30   1/21/07 5:36:32PM   
 
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