that was a tap....that was a tap |
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Kimbo Slice's Punchout!
Career record: 204-116
Season: 47-23 (#163)
Location:
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It's lose, not loose!
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Post #16 6/22/08 12:51:19AM
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Hit me with those laser beams!
Career record: 236-111
Season: 53-17 (#11)
Location: Morrison, CO
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Posted by grappler0000
Yep... clear tap... and according the rules on UFC.com, that's a submission.
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Accolades:
UFC 70: Nations Collide: 18 points #2978 out of 3669
UFC 81: Breaking Point: 28 points #5248 out of 7305
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Post #17 6/22/08 12:55:02AM
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LETS GO G-MEN!
Career record: 66-45
Season: 41-29 (#1865)
Location: Selden, Long Island
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Posted by ObsoleteMan
Well, the rules on wikipedia say specifically that one must tap three times:
# Submission: a fighter may admit defeat during a match by:
* tapping three times on his opponent's body;
* tapping three times on the mat or floor;
* verbal announcement.
Personally, I'm really ambivalent about this. I think that Amir was about to win either way, but like the Kimbo fight, I think the ref should've waited for it to be definite. I can understand where Herb Dean was coming from though, he saw one clear tap, and jumped in right away. How many times do you see one clear tap, and then an escape?
EDIT: I'm lazy, and didn't check any further. Both the Nevada and New Jersey website merely say "physical tap", not referencing the number of taps at any point.
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-467.html
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html
you do know people could write anything on wikipedia.. so if there is another site you can find it on please do cause thats not a vaild refrence
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11-0 UFC 84 Picks.
Tuf 7 Finale ranked # 25 (8-2 77 points)
3 underdog bonus
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Post #18 6/22/08 1:00:58AM
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LIVEVIL
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Career record: 189-104
Season: 49-21 (#388)
Location: Where the Tall Corn Grows
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Posted by DiabloFreak56
Posted by ObsoleteMan
Well, the rules on wikipedia say specifically that one must tap three times:
# Submission: a fighter may admit defeat during a match by:
* tapping three times on his opponent's body;
* tapping three times on the mat or floor;
* verbal announcement.
Personally, I'm really ambivalent about this. I think that Amir was about to win either way, but like the Kimbo fight, I think the ref should've waited for it to be definite. I can understand where Herb Dean was coming from though, he saw one clear tap, and jumped in right away. How many times do you see one clear tap, and then an escape?
EDIT: I'm lazy, and didn't check any further. Both the Nevada and New Jersey website merely say "physical tap", not referencing the number of taps at any point.
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-467.html
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/sacb/docs/martial.html
you do know people could write anything on wikipedia.. so if there is another site you can find it on please do cause thats not a vaild refrence
Fail... read the posts... he already did.
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Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.
#10 points EXC: Heat
#8 points Sengoku 5
#24 points DREAM 2
#50 earnings TUF 6 Finale
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Post #19 6/22/08 1:09:52AM
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Twenty20Dollars
MMA Sensei
Career record: 168-91
Season: 47-23 (#640)
Location: KC,MO
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cb did the same type of tap during the TUF and didnt complain. cb tapped amir's leg once in the finale and complains about it. be a man cb you tapped, camera's dont lie.
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Post #20 6/22/08 3:17:23AM
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Next WW Champ!
Career record: 156-95
Season: 41-29 (#2239)
Location: So Cal.
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Posted by Rush
Anyone who thinks that was an official tap (including Dean, Rogan and Goldberg) need to review the UFC's rules.
That call by Herb Dean is about on par with calling a KO finish due to an illegal blow or deducting a point for a legal blow.
Sorry dude the bitch Taped out.
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Blessed be the Lord my strength which teacheth my hands to war and my fingers to fight. Psalm 144:1...................WAR BJ
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Post #21 6/22/08 5:08:32AM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
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You know I said I was done with this, but I wanted to throw in something.
I remember when Randy tapped on Tito's ass (twice I think) in their fight. Why wasn't that stopped? I cna't remember if Tito was going for a leg lock or ankle lock, but that is besides the point because you don't have to be in a submission hold to tap out.
The wikpedia list was based off of the official UFC page, but the official site has since been changed to be more vague. Hasn't anyone else learned that the more vague a rule is, the less liability they have to enforce it to a "tee"? Now that it has been changed, there is little point arguing this case though.
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Post #22 6/22/08 10:57:07AM
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Hit me with those laser beams!
Career record: 236-111
Season: 53-17 (#11)
Location: Morrison, CO
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Posted by Rush
The wikpedia list was based off of the official UFC page, but the official site has since been changed to be more vague. Hasn't anyone else learned that the more vague a rule is, the less liability they have to enforce it to a "tee"? Now that it has been changed, there is little point arguing this case though.
I did not know this...
If this is the case, than that is BS that they changed it so it was more vague. Or maybe the view on that was changed to make it safer... who knows?
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Accolades:
UFC 70: Nations Collide: 18 points #2978 out of 3669
UFC 81: Breaking Point: 28 points #5248 out of 7305
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Post #23 6/22/08 11:02:19AM
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tdietel01
MMA Regular
Career record: 60-33
Season: 19-9 (#5755)
Location: Findlay Ohio
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looked pretty clear that he changed his mind after the first tap. still think it was a good call though. if you wait for a clear 3 or 4 taps then you are gonna have broken limbs and people passing out left and right
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Post #24 6/22/08 11:21:07AM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
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Posted by npayant
I did not know this...
If this is the case, than that is BS that they changed it so it was more vague. Or maybe the view on that was changed to make it safer... who knows?
I don't know why they changed it for sure, but I am cynical, so that's why I think it is to make it more vague.
Had Herb Dean said that he made the decision based on the extension of the arm, I would have accepted that. I mean, other than my picks I didn't really care who won TUF7. I didn't even watch the show to like or hate any of these guys. I just don't like to see fights end like this.
Note** I have done some research regarding this.
First I tried using the wayback machine to look at older versions of the ufc website. Some of the older UFC contained the same page of rules (wording wise) going back to 2005.
I looked up the NSAC and NJAC pages on this. They are a little different, but neither indicate what constitutes a tap.
NJAC
i. Tap Out:When a contestant physically uses his hand to indicate that he or she no longer wishes to continue; or ii. Verbal tap out:When a contestant verbally announces to the referee that he or she does not wish to continue;
NSAC
1. Submission by:
(a) Physical tap out.
(b) Verbal tap out.
So I guess I was imagining it. I know the UFC has mentioned the three time rule and I am sure it is not from wiki because I never read the wiki article prior to last night.
I stand corrected, but like the whole definition with striking to the back of the head (as stated in the BJM interview) there seems to be more detailed definitions as to what rules consist of behind the scenes, more than what is in print, which seems a little strange to me. Maybe it's a legal thing.
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MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
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Post #25 6/22/08 11:39:30AM
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gartface
MMA Sensei
Career record: 147-96
Season: 51-19 (#178)
Location: Flo-town, SC
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He tapped but didn't completely submit. He was clearly trying to lock his arms up again to try and slam Amir. Another thing to keep in mind is that Tim Sylvia didn't tap, and that resulted in a broken arm, the same result I see happening if the fight wasn't stopped. Just like Chael Sonnen, he didn't tap, and was pissed off, but his arm was going to get broken regardless.
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Post #26 6/22/08 3:50:42PM
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In Full Mount
Career record: 158-93
Season: 44-26 (#1016)
Location: Austin, TX
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I think both Sylvia and Sonnen had a valid complaint considering they did not tap. However, I don't understand how you can actually tap, and then complain.
It is definitely possible that CB did not mean to tap out, but I don't know a ref in any organization that would not have stopped that.
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Post #27 6/22/08 8:51:05PM
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RMFG_187
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 129-84
Season: 38-24 (#1754)
Location: Toronto, Canada
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he tapped once, he was gonna tap twice if Dean didnt grab his arm, and IMO it was a good stoppage. remember Din Thomas vs Jeremy Stephens, Din had im in a full armbar, one of the deepest ever, yet Jeremy says he didn't tap but that was one of the deepest armbars I had ever seen. These things happen all the time, and its hard to say, cuz if your a ref, ur job is enforce the rules, make sure everything is fair and to keep the fighters safe. If u see a dangerous armbar and someone tapped once and was going for a second tap, I think I woulda stopped the fight at the same time.
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Post #28 6/23/08 5:37:32AM
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thevoodooninja
MMA Regular
Career record: 54-35
Season: 48-22 (#129)
Location: SW Cleveland, OH. the 440
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 cb cant stop bitching because thats what he is............... a bitch
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Post #29 6/24/08 3:30:33AM
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