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‘Elbow Room' Remains for Controversy

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thatfedorsohotrightnow

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What exactly constitutes an illegal elbow to the back of the head?

It depends who you ask.

That's the hot topic off the heels of June 7's Nate Marquardt-Thales Leites (Pictures) fight at UFC 85 in London, where referee Herb Dean (Pictures) took a point from Marquardt for illegal elbows, and the deductions made the difference on the scorecards. Leites, who was otherwise on the short end of a competitive but uphill battle, took a split duke by scores of 28-27, 28-27 and 27-28. Link

Herb was right!

Post #1   6/16/08 6:56:47PM   

teddythetuna

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He lost a point on that which he shouldnt have but got away with the piledriver so it all worked out IMO

Post #2   6/16/08 7:06:06PM   

thatfedorsohotrightnow

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Posted by teddythetuna

He lost a point on that which he shouldnt have but got away with the piledriver so it all worked out IMO



Try reading the article before you post a reply. The elbow was illegal. McCarthy was mistaken.

Post #3   6/16/08 7:16:11PM   

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Posted by thatfedorsohotrightnow


Posted by teddythetuna

He lost a point on that which he shouldnt have but got away with the piledriver so it all worked out IMO



Try reading the article before you post a reply. The elbow was illegal. McCarthy was mistaken.



Thales is right to not want a rematch, Marquardt should have been D/Qd after all the rules he broke, especially with the piledriver finish.

Post #4   6/16/08 7:53:03PM   

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I think Herb is one of the best refs in MMA. I'm not sure what was wrong with Nate Marquardt that night but he should have been DQed after the pill driver.

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Post #5   6/16/08 9:12:18PM   

jiujitsufreak74

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even after reading the article i still don't think those were illegal. maybe i have to re-watch the fight again but from what i remember they weren't even to the back of the ear but rather flush on the side. i agree with Herb on the headphone definition, but even using his own definition is till thought the elbows didn't land in the illegal zone. again, maybe i am misremembering but either way i would like to see a clean rematch to determine the absolute victor.

Post #6   6/16/08 9:30:28PM   

Wolfenstein

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I like Nate, but he was pulling every dirty trick out of the bag. Really dissapointing and that piledriver could have ended Leites career. It was awesome to watch, and I was shocked he was able to manhandle Leites like that, but he was also never the same after the illegal knee. At the same time though he really endangered Leites career and potentially his life with a clearly illegal move and he knew exactly what he was doing, frustrated or not.

I think he has to be fined. A statement has to be made that you're not going to get away with this kind of crap.

As far as what is the back of the head. I don't think it can be any clearer than how Joe Rogan stated it during the match. If you were wearing headphones, anything behind thephones is illegal.

Post #7   6/16/08 9:34:46PM   

bullettdodger

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well illegal or not, Nate got penalized twice, once without a doubt was correct, the other is debatable, my point is that while he was repremanded twice durring the fight no one really said very much about the elbows that Kenny was throwing to Lauzon's dome.

Post #8   6/17/08 3:49:55AM   

nubby

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According to the article the area that herb dean defines is not the official rule its the rule that he verbally agreed to enforce. Just because an official says it's what was verbally agreed between him and two athletic commission guys does not mean they can on the fly change the rules because it suits them. Whether or not the elbow was illegal, the mohawk definition is correct until the rules are re-written. Remember that each state uses the unified rules.

Post #9   6/17/08 11:11:43AM   

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I just hate all the "elbow" talk. It is getting out of hand.

I just wish they could eliminate elbows to a grounded opponent, and then allow knees instead.
Although the rule has never really changed, the enforcement has changed drastically. It used to only be called when an elbow was landed to the very back of the head (where the spine meets the back of the head). Now it seems like it is called if a strike is landed anywere past the very top of the head.

From a fighter's perspective this is nearly impossible to control, especially when every ref seems to have their own definition in their head. When you are dropping bombs as fast as you can and the scrambling opponent is constantly turning and moving their head, how can you expect fighters to land 100% clean blows?

At this point, I see the only way to avoid this problem is to just eliminate elbows on the ground (thus another rule taking away from the sport).

Post #10   6/17/08 1:30:50PM   

MMAcca

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More illegal elbow talk........


Unclear elbow rules a cause for concern

Post #11   6/17/08 2:15:18PM   

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Posted by MMAcca

More illegal elbow talk........


Unclear elbow rules a cause for concern



I think they need to show a dummy to the referees with the "illegal" areas in red.
Even after reading that article, I still could not tell you what is illegal or not.

Post #12   6/17/08 3:24:19PM