Pick'em Leagues: THE BIG SHOW CASUAL BEST OF THE REST Single Event PvP: FANTASY POOLS Betting Leagues: THE BIG SHOW BEST OF THE REST
  MMA Playground 4.0 is live!     Returning members: check out the patch notes     New members: visit our getting started guide, read the FAQ's and start playing!

Evans vs Liddell

Print  
  Page 3 of 4     1     2     3     4  
Posted By Message

mkiv9secsupra

MMA Sensei

mkiv9secsupra Avatar
3


 
 
 


 
 
Posts:2,874
Career:1,051-706
Joined:Jan 2007
Chips:
361

Posted by ICSlegend
The guy was good at knocking out wrestlers with bad gameplans.



Evans has a GREAT gameplan. Takedown and control.......Yeah very deceptive. Chuck would maul this guy unrelentlessly.

Until you post something informative or educated no one is going to respect or even listen to what you have to say

Post #31   6/14/08 8:09:31PM   

tylerlee123

Standup Guy

tylerlee123 Avatar
2

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:460
Career:994-615
Joined:Nov 2007
Chips:
33
There is no way that Rashad will win

Post #32   6/14/08 8:17:34PM   

Aaronno9

King in the North

Aaronno9 Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,693
Career:796-457
Joined:Oct 2007
Camp: MMA Worldwide
Chips:
475

Posted by ICSlegend

And Aaronno9, yes it is pointless arguing unless you want to bring some facts to the table.








You want facts?

Chucks won 21 fights, 13 by way of k.o. Hes beaten great strikers in wandy, overeem and belfort. Hes beaten guys with great jits in jeremy horn, babalu and bustamante, and hes beaten great wrestlers in randy, randleman and tito. In his last 10 fights, hes only lost twice, once to the undisputed number 1 lhw, and once via split decision to a pretty well ranked jardine.

I know you have an excuse ready for every one, and ive heard them all before, wandy "didnt look the same" overeem was gassed, randleman was an early stoppage... and so on and so forth, but its just straight up ignorance to not rank liddell and spew some of shit that you do.

You talk about stating facts, and your main argument in regards to the wandy fight is that wandy would of mauled chuck in pride and he wasn't himself. What kind of fact is that? to me thats just a disillusioned opinion of somebody who hates for the sake of hating, and probably knows in their own minds chuck is better than they give him credit for.

Last edited 6/14/08 8:33PM server time by aaronno9
Edit note/reason: n/a

_______________________________________
@aaronjohnbird

Post #33   6/14/08 8:32:31PM   

ICSlegend

MMA Regular

ICSlegend Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:237
Career:56-40
Joined:Mar 2008
Chips:
26

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

Until you post something informative or educated no one is going to respect or even listen to what you have to say



ditto. you can't even follow your own advice

As far as Evans' gameplan are you a fortune teller now too? We have yet to see his gameplan SINCE THEY HAVEN'T FOUGHT YET!

Last edited 6/15/08 12:32AM server time by icslegend
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #34   6/15/08 12:31:35AM   

gartface

Heavyweight Champ

gartface Avatar
3


 
 
 


 
 
Posts:4,335
Career:1,406-898
Joined:Jul 2007
Camp: Hand Grenade Hillbillies
Chips:
542
Unrelentlessly? so he'd relent?

Post #35   6/15/08 12:36:13AM   

ICSlegend

MMA Regular

ICSlegend Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:237
Career:56-40
Joined:Mar 2008
Chips:
26

Posted by Aaronno9

You want facts?

Chucks won 21 fights, 13 by way of k.o. Hes beaten great strikers in wandy, overeem and belfort. Hes beaten guys with great jits in jeremy horn, babalu and bustamante, and hes beaten great wrestlers in randy, randleman and tito. In his last 10 fights, hes only lost twice, once to the undisputed number 1 lhw, and once via split decision to a pretty well ranked jardine.

I know you have an excuse ready for every one, and ive heard them all before, wandy "didnt look the same" overeem was gassed, randleman was an early stoppage... and so on and so forth, but its just straight up ignorance to not rank liddell and spew some of shit that you do.

You talk about stating facts, and your main argument in regards to the wandy fight is that wandy would of mauled chuck in pride and he wasn't himself. What kind of fact is that? to me thats just a disillusioned opinion of somebody who hates for the sake of hating, and probably knows in their own minds chuck is better than they give him credit for.



And Couture is 16-8. Garbage fighter right? Using logic in examining both WINS and LOSSES yields much better results in analyzing fighters.

And no, he hasn't "beaten" Wandy. He got the hometown decision based on UFC rules, sure. But wandy was not "defeated". If you have seen Wandy's other fights, you would notice that the Axe Murderer did not show up to fight Chuck. A guy that was knocked out back to back showed up and looked like he just wanted to not get KOd, not kill Chuck, which is what an in form Wandy would have tried to do (example not pouncing on Chuck when he dropped him).

You mention Bustamante, but have you seen the fight? It was razor close and Busta is a MW!!! Soleuv also edged Chuck. He couldn't even knock out these natural MWs...Not to mention I think Vitor-Chuck was razor close as well.

Randy owned him the first fight, and had some mental issues (divorce and others) in the rematches, so its safe to say either one can beat the other.

Randleman we all now is not a consistant fighter. He seems to be able to KO guys like CC and suplex Fedor on his neck (anyone else would be dead), and yet looks like crap in other fights. Nothing new here.

Tito is not really that great of a win. Who has Tito ever beaten? Not to mention the stoppages were early (not saying Tito would have won, but still).

In your opinion Rampage is the undisputed #1. I dispute that. Now its disputed. In any case, Rampage was a guy that could never get the belt in Pride. And he took care of Liddell so easily the second time around (and not too much trouble the first). And I don't believe Jardine was ranked let alone "well-ranked". And the split was BS. Look up the stats on that fight, Jardine landed at least twice as many shots as Liddell. No contest there, just typical UFC favoritsm.

And these "excuses" are more like "reasons". Look up the definitions if you are not familiar with them. Overeem ALWAYS gasses....have you seen his fights? I didn't rank Liddell because there's a good case for everyone I ranked ahead of him to beat him rather easily imo. All rankings are subjective anyway, so what's your point with rankings?

As far as Wandy not himself, just watch his other fights. It's a FACT he was not as aggressive as he is known for. Whether or not Liddell would have still won is of course disputable, maybe he would have fought differently and won. But imo and many others' an aggressive Wandy would have won.

I don't hate for the sake of hating, I respect Chuck for what he has done, being a longtime champ and managing to keep winning despite limited technical striking ability. I just prefer technically skilled fighters, that's all. And you forgot the Mezger win, huge win for Chuck, all the credit there.

I'm just sick or morons "guaranteeing" victory. Just like Serra had no chance in hell against GSP. Complete nonsense.

Last edited 6/15/08 12:48AM server time by icslegend
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #36   6/15/08 12:46:08AM   

Aaronno9

King in the North

Aaronno9 Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,693
Career:796-457
Joined:Oct 2007
Camp: MMA Worldwide
Chips:
475
Dude, i hate to break it to you, but chuck beat wandy fair and square. And i think you'll find if we did a poll on these forums, which are probably the most educated mma forums ive been on, you'll find a very large majority agree chuck won that fight. Not that that remotely matters, becouse if you check the record books, it goes down as a win for chuck.

All your exuses for chuck winning fights are stupid, your going to tell me a guys made his career becouse every fight he fought in he had some luck or something went his way? And it doesnt matter if you think the fights where close, or even if they where, chuck still won them. Also, i could easily come out and say man i wish chuck had fought wandy in pride becouse i think chuck would wreck him, but you know what, it doesnt mean shit, becouse they never fought in pride and never will.

Pretty much everything you posted in that post was your opinion, everything i posted was fact. Just get over it, chucks a top lhw, and he beat your boy wandy fair and square. Doesnt matter how much you run around message boards saying wandy won or it was a draw.

_______________________________________
@aaronjohnbird

Post #37   6/15/08 11:29:22AM   

ICSlegend

MMA Regular

ICSlegend Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:237
Career:56-40
Joined:Mar 2008
Chips:
26

Posted by Aaronno9

Dude, i hate to break it to you, but chuck beat wandy fair and square. And i think you'll find if we did a poll on these forums, which are probably the most educated mma forums ive been on, you'll find a very large majority agree chuck won that fight. Not that that remotely matters, becouse if you check the record books, it goes down as a win for chuck.



Where did I say Chuck cheated to win? Of course he won fair and square. Just not against the Axe Murderer. All I was saying.


Posted by Aaronno9

Pretty much everything you posted in that post was your opinion, everything i posted was fact.



spoken like a true child.



Post #38   6/15/08 11:43:43AM   

Aaronno9

King in the North

Aaronno9 Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,693
Career:796-457
Joined:Oct 2007
Camp: MMA Worldwide
Chips:
475

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by Aaronno9

Dude, i hate to break it to you, but chuck beat wandy fair and square. And i think you'll find if we did a poll on these forums, which are probably the most educated mma forums ive been on, you'll find a very large majority agree chuck won that fight. Not that that remotely matters, becouse if you check the record books, it goes down as a win for chuck.



Where did I say Chuck cheated to win? Of course he won fair and square. Just not against the Axe Murderer. All I was saying.


Posted by Aaronno9

Pretty much everything you posted in that post was your opinion, everything i posted was fact.



spoken like a true child.







Awesome comeback.

_______________________________________
@aaronjohnbird

Post #39   6/15/08 11:47:33AM   

NatedawgThaM

MMA Sensei

NatedawgThaM Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:2,901
Career:676-444
Joined:Jun 2007
Chips:
339
Chuck, Unanimous Decsion...why?

Because yes Chuck Liddell has a habit of KOing just fighters with barely decent stand up and awesome ground games, but Rashad's stand up is better then half way decent, it's actually decent. A decent boxer will beat Chuck, but I just don't see it happening with Rashad. Just because he'll be too intimidated by Chuck which he shouldn't. Rashad has good boxing and agility so Liddell's sloppy and slow punches will barely even touch him. All you go to be is a good boxer and not be so scared and you can beat Chuck just because Chuck is all power. But Chuck is so intimidating with all his KO's so I think that alone will be Rashad. Rashad can beat him but I don't see it happening. I think Rashad's speed and above average boxing will keep Liddell from landing the big shots early Both will gas late since Rashad will keep pointlessly shooting even though he can easily beat him on the feet but Liddell is so intimidating, so he'll keep pointlessly shooting in even though not even Tito or Randy could get him down who are better wrestlers. It will come down to who has the better gas tank in which I think it will be Liddell since Evans will be gassed out totally in the 3rd after using the speed and agility all fight and shooting takedowns takes a lot out of you, I know from experience. But since Evans won't be using offense but defense on the feet, Liddell will be more active and eek out a decision.

and btw, IMHO I wouldn't call Wandy exactly a great striker. At least technically. He's a great brawler but not a great striker overall. It's the same reason I wouldn't call Liddell a great striker. Their both good strikers, but their poor technique keeps them at just good(Not trying to take anything away from their amazing legacies). But their definitely the best brawlers in MMA history. If Wandy knew how to stick and move and not just come at you or kicked like Rogan kept screaming, he could have beat Liddell. But he's strictly a Muay Thai guy and in Muay Thai they don't teach you how to stick and move, just come forward. And Wandy just brawler boxed, which is bad against Liddell since he counter punches and had a reach advantage. Just my opinion though.

Post #40   6/16/08 10:28:39PM   

ICSlegend

MMA Regular

ICSlegend Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:237
Career:56-40
Joined:Mar 2008
Chips:
26
nice anaylsis Natedawg. I knew there were more intelligent posters around then the blind chuck fans yelling "Chuck by murder'.

I think you're absolutely right about everything, but IF Rashad is too intimidated by Chuck he will lose by decision. After watching the Jardine fight, and by virtue of being young and training hard, I think Rashad won't be intimidated by Liddell. I mean when was the last time he KOd someone?

Post #41   6/16/08 11:40:44PM   

jiujitsufreak74

,,[],, *******,,[],,

jiujitsufreak74 Avatar
8
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:5,256
Career:1,056-572
Joined:Sep 2007
Chips:
1,150
well here is my take on the fight:

i am going to have to go with Liddell on this one. too much experience, too much KO power and he has too good of a sprawl to lose to Evans. Liddell has made his career out of beating fighters like Rashad Evans (wrestlers with decent stand-up) and i don't think he will stop now. i see another sprawl and brawl KO for Chuck because this is a bad style match up for Rashad.

now, the argument has been brought up that he hasn't KOed anyone in a while, but every time he has faced a wrestler in his career he has knocked them out (besides Couture the first time, but he got his revenge twice so i think it makes up for it). Beating wrestlers is what Chuck does and i would again like to reiterate that the style match up for Rashad is just horrific.

and for the record, i am not a Liddell fan at all and i will be rooting for Rashad top win the whole time.

EDIT: Rashad's stand up is on par with Tito's and we all have seen how Liddell dealt with Tito. i don't think Rashad has proven that his stand up is good enough to frustrate Chuck Liddell and that this fight will go exactly like Chuck vs Tito II with a late KO for Chuck except maybe he gets the win in the 2nd instead of the 3rd since he would only have 3 rounds instead of 5.

Last edited 6/17/08 12:08AM server time by jiujitsufreak74
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #42   6/17/08 12:04:30AM   

NatedawgThaM

MMA Sensei

NatedawgThaM Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:2,901
Career:676-444
Joined:Jun 2007
Chips:
339

Posted by 89vision

3 Round Stand n' Pray [insert winner here]



I AGREE 100%!!! Liddell is a typical slow(sometimes boring) paced counter puncher when he faces good wrestlers like Rashad and Rashad's only way to win is to stick and move with the 1,2. So I think it will turn out to be a boring boxing match unless Liddell presses like he has surprisingly done in his last 2 fights, but that will let Rashad take him down since his takedown won't be near as good coming forward and Rashad could steal a win on points. But when Liddell gets down, he's getting straight back up unless he gets KO'd off a knockdown. Their's no denying on dissing Chuck on the way he uses his wrestling ability to stand back up and sprawl while counter punching.

I finally read the 1st two pages and I got to say, I'm a little shocked. I just got to clear up some things. 1st, I tend to think Rashad is overrated just because he did just barely beat Bisping and should have lost to Tito. Very overrated if you rank him top 5 unless your a diehard Rashad fan, but that's still a crappy place to put him. But he is CLEARLY UNDERRATED when I hear the type of nonsense in this thread. Their is no clear winner in MMA before the fight actually happens, their's no guaranteed wins, just heavy favorites. Bias Liddell fans look it up who give Rashad absolutely no chance, look it up or watch MMA 2007. And how can anybody say Bisping beat Rashad unless your bias in the fact you like a stand up fights much more then ground fights. Rashad CLEARLY had octagon control the whole fight which is a big part when judging a fight. Rashad took him down whenever he shot and controlled him on the ground, LNP'd afterwards, but still, Bisping did absolutely NOTHING on the feet to ignore how bad Rashad out wrestled him. Only bias Rashad haters or stand up lovers would say Bisping clearly won. You could say you though he edged it out, but if anybody clearly won, it was Rashad.

I say Rashad is being very underrated in this fight just for the simple fact, HIS BOXING IS BETTER THEN THE OTHER WRESTLERS LIDDELL KO'D!!! He's faster then all of them and Liddell by a long shot and has great agility. His boxing is very fun to watch, problem, he does not use it that much offensively which makes him boring IMHO. I'm 100% his speed and agility could even make a primed Liddell look slow since he's all power, no speed or technique with his hands. If Rashad stick and moves, trust me on this since I've been a big boxing fan for awhile now, that he will absolutely SCHOOL Liddell. I just think he will overrate Liddell's power so much, that he will just use his boxing to bob and weaving and then shooting in which he will gas so I can even see a late 3rd round TKO after Rashad gasses even though I almost guarantee Rashad stands right back up to argue the call. But if he boxes offensive and defensively, he will beat Liddell. But Liddell is just to damn intimidating when you watch all of his crazy KO's from sloppy flurries coming at the craziest angles. I'm not ashamed to say that I am even afraid of liddell. He could throw a flurry and KO me with a sloppy right that KO's me after he goes around my head and hits my chin for the KO at the completely other side of my head that it's suppose to hit. LIDDELL'S CRAZY!!!

Post #43   6/17/08 12:34:50AM   

Aaronno9

King in the North

Aaronno9 Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:3,693
Career:796-457
Joined:Oct 2007
Camp: MMA Worldwide
Chips:
475
Just to clear things up, im not writing rashad off at all. Chucks not superman, its it shows that his age is catching up with him, so if anybody wants to make a name for themselves by beating chuck liddell, now is that time to do it. I pretty much think jj freak summed up how i actually feel about the fight favorites aside, and i just dont think rashads going to pose chuck a hole lot of problems. He struggled to take bisping down in their fight, so i cant see him taking chuck down, and he does have a tendancey to gas late in fights. I mean, if you watch the bisping fight, mike was able to tee off at will in the later stages of the fight, if rashad lets chuck do that, hes going down. I see this fight going down the same as the second tito fight, rashad will land some shots, and he might hurt chuck, but in the end he'll go down like all the other wrestlers chucks faces.

Also, im not 100%, but im assuming chuck will have a decent reach advantage in this fight, so it that is that case it might negate rashads boxing even more.

_______________________________________
@aaronjohnbird

Post #44   6/17/08 1:52:59PM   

ICSlegend

MMA Regular

ICSlegend Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:237
Career:56-40
Joined:Mar 2008
Chips:
26

Posted by Aaronno9

Guys, theres just no point arguing with isclegend or whatever his name is when it comes to chuck, hes blinded by his dislike for the guy to the point where he doesn't even have him in the top 10 lhws. If chuck where to fight himself, this guy would still go around telling everybody how chucks going to loose.

I mean, seriously, rashads striking sucks, yeah its improved from tuf, when it was pretty much non existant. Chuck might not be the best striker out there but hes been knocking guys out for years, who has rashad knocked out apart from sean salamon??



A guy by the name of Chuck Liddell...which everyone in this post made IGNORANT declarations of easy victory for.

The sad thing is most of you guys haven't learned your lesson and will be screaming Chuck by murder in his next fight too.

And I agree that Rashad's striking isn't that great...just better than Chuck's.

Post #45   9/7/08 2:26:46PM   
 
  Page 3 of 4     1     2     3     4