How do you solve a problem like Machida? |
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Sam_Rothstein
Belt Contender
Career record: 199-116
Season: 47-23 (#450)
Location: Iowa/Minnesota/California
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Lyoto Machida posted his 13th straight career victory -- and his fifth win in the UFC -- with Saturday's UFC 84 unanimous decision over former title-older Tito Ortiz.
But is his latest victory really worth celebrating? Does he now deserve a title shot or a fight with another top contender?
It depends on whom you're asking.
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Post #1 5/26/08 7:03:02PM
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jomatty
In Full Mount
Career record: 67-42
Season: 5-7 (#8043)
Location: c-ville va
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i think of mma as a sport and if you are a great competitor then you deserve to compete against other great competitors. machida has proven he deserves to be fighting the other top guys
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Post #2 5/26/08 7:13:47PM
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dannyfrank
MMA Sensei
Career record: 56-38
Season: 37-25 (#2961)
Location: Chuck Town
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machida has a fighting style that works for him, even if some do believe it to be "boring." it's better for him to have a technical fight and win than to come into the fight, guns blazing, and get knocked out. he has every right to go for a title shot. even if his style isn't exciting, he has proved that it works many times.
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Post #3 5/26/08 7:23:29PM
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seanfu
In Full Mount
Career record: 90-55
Season: 31-19 (#5037)
Location: Fort Wayne IN
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A fighter with a strong fearless chin and controlled explosive flurrys.
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Post #4 5/26/08 7:23:34PM
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gartface
MMA Sensei
Career record: 147-96
Season: 51-19 (#178)
Location: Flo-town, SC
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MMA needs a good Karate fighter, and Machida is amazing. That knee to Tito's liver almost knocked him out.
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Post #5 5/26/08 7:39:06PM
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WarWagon Never Die!
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Career record: 173-125
Season: 34-36 (#3376)
Location: talkin trash to the garbage around me
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There's a loud minority against him, but he puts on a great fight. Making Tito Ortuz look that bad is certainly something to celebrate. He beat him up. He outpointed him. He controlled the pace and distance. And he made sure that a top notch wrestler couldn't get him down. He took Tito down easily when he decided to. He almost pounded him out twice. He got out of an tight triangle. What didn't he do besides get a ko? He should get a title shot, but I don't think I would bet against him right now no matter who he fights. He also has a great ground game that we just don't see much cuz he doesn't need to use it.
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There can be ONLY 1 WarWagon
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Post #6 5/26/08 7:49:52PM
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MMeh?
Career record: 120-71
Season: 29-17 (#3866)
Location: vancouver
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i'm the type of fan who can enjoy a techical fight whether its standing or on the ground, whether its wrestling, jj, judo, boxing, muay thai... like footwork, transitions, head movement, its all fun to watch when you understand it. My problem with machida is the same problem that i've had with a few other fighters... he doesnt fight to win, he fights not to lose.
The goal of every fighter when entering the fight is to finish the fight. The reason why we have a point system and limited rounds is because there's only so long that a fighter's cardio can last, and theres only so long we wanna see them fight for.
With the exception of machida's fortunate or incredibly well placed knee (pretty sure that was a liver shot or a broken rib), machida has trouble creating effective offense in a fight. He has an amazing ability to elude his opponents offense during a fight, but his own offense is seriously lacking.
The reason why I dont think he deserves a title shot is because everyone knows what machida's game plan is. Machida evades his opponent and makes them create the offense and once he's figured out the timing, he sneaks in a shot here and there when he's confident that he wont get hit. How do you defeat this? dont create offense. You wanna throw machida out of his element, let him come to you... will he? who knows, but you risk that in a title fight, two fighters who wont engage.. so get him a title shot? not unless you wanna see 5 rounds of starnes vs starnes.
I recommend giving him chuck liddel.. see how he handles a patient counter striker who has the ability to knock machida's head clean off
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Post #7 5/26/08 7:53:36PM
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three_days_of_grey
MMA Regular
Career record: 145-93
Season: 37-29 (#3249)
Location: Stockton, CA.
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I really find it diffiuclt to see how anyone would find Machida boring. I know Machida's witchcraft style of 'stick and move' is relatively new to the world of combat sports, but after he sacrifices some chickens, he works a near flawless strategy. Ortiz is a former champion and was unable to do anything against Machida, with the exception of that sub attempt that Machida worked out of. What I find less entertaining are the 36 seconds KO's from simply standing and slugging away.
I don't know if the UFC will have trouble marketing Machida as I don't feel they have done that much anyway. So they may get a good response if they throw some promotional dollars his way. I do believe that since Machida is softspoken and unassuming that his matches would almost have to have a good-vs-evil vibe to them, like the Ortiz fight. Or maybe that's just how I felt since I don't care for Ortiz.
-OUT-
I wanted to add that I feel the octagon is a major assist in Machida's gameplan as the shape proves difficult for cutting off the ring.
Last edited 5/26/08 8:00PM by three_days_of_grey
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #8 5/26/08 7:58:28PM
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bigbubbano23
In Full Mount
Career record: 108-86
Season: 39-31 (#2579)
Location: the hills
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you give him some one who can catch him.
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Post #9 5/26/08 8:15:11PM
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Sam_Rothstein
Belt Contender
Career record: 199-116
Season: 47-23 (#450)
Location: Iowa/Minnesota/California
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Posted by wapttn
i'm the type of fan who can enjoy a techical fight whether its standing or on the ground, whether its wrestling, jj, judo, boxing, muay thai... like footwork, transitions, head movement, its all fun to watch when you understand it. My problem with machida is the same problem that i've had with a few other fighters... he doesnt fight to win, he fights not to lose.
The goal of every fighter when entering the fight is to finish the fight. The reason why we have a point system and limited rounds is because there's only so long that a fighter's cardio can last, and theres only so long we wanna see them fight for.
With the exception of machida's fortunate or incredibly well placed knee (pretty sure that was a liver shot or a broken rib), machida has trouble creating effective offense in a fight. He has an amazing ability to elude his opponents offense during a fight, but his own offense is seriously lacking.
The reason why I dont think he deserves a title shot is because everyone knows what machida's game plan is. Machida evades his opponent and makes them create the offense and once he's figured out the timing, he sneaks in a shot here and there when he's confident that he wont get hit. How do you defeat this? dont create offense. You wanna throw machida out of his element, let him come to you... will he? who knows, but you risk that in a title fight, two fighters who wont engage.. so get him a title shot? not unless you wanna see 5 rounds of starnes vs starnes.
I recommend giving him chuck liddel.. see how he handles a patient counter striker who has the ability to knock machida's head clean off
I agree. People always mention how machida has stopped franklin, bonnar, sokoudjou. Which is a very impressive list I will say myself. The only thing is if you watch those fights, every one of those guys pushed the pace and were the ones engaging while machida countered and tee'd off. Even dmitri wanderley pushed the pace against him.
I would like to see how he would do against another guy who can stay in the pocket and tee off on you. Who better right now besides chuck liddell? Last year I would of picked machida to win because I would not imagine liddell being able to stay in the pocket and wait for the fighter to come to him, basically because he wanted to be a croud pleaser.
After seeing chuck go 3 rounds with silva, i think he could get back to his old pre-title ways and beat machida with a similar style to what he used against vitor belfort or jeff monson.
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Post #10 5/26/08 8:20:12PM
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loller90278
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 164-119
Season: 34-19 (#2756)
Location: Redondo Beach
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i dont get why everyone says hes boring. just because he's not aggressive does not mean he's boring. he has DROPPED every single opponent that he's faced. he knocked down franklin before he KO'd him, he knocked down Tito with that knee, he knocked down sokoudjou in the 2nd round and tried to finish it, knocked down sam hogar.. i mean, name me one person who's done all that, and is still undefeated.
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Post #11 5/26/08 9:05:19PM
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Mchubb316
MMA Sensei
Career record: 217-120
Season: 45-25 (#1353)
Location: Southern Oregon
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I think Machida is a low risk fighter. He doesn't put him in situations where he can get caught by a fluke KO. He picks his spots carefully and calculates when to attack and then does it and gets out. This is why he scores well, he takes little damage and lands a a high percentage of strikes. People may call this boring, but this is his style. Like it or not it is effective, and he wins fights. I think someone who can push the action, and not be afraid of getting hit, and has a hard chin could pose a threat to Machida.
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Post #12 5/26/08 9:24:42PM
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Santa Says: No Stampeding!
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Career record: 189-104
Season: 49-21 (#388)
Location: Where the Tall Corn Grows
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Posted by Sam_Rothstein
Posted by wapttn
i'm the type of fan who can enjoy a techical fight whether its standing or on the ground, whether its wrestling, jj, judo, boxing, muay thai... like footwork, transitions, head movement, its all fun to watch when you understand it. My problem with machida is the same problem that i've had with a few other fighters... he doesnt fight to win, he fights not to lose.
The goal of every fighter when entering the fight is to finish the fight. The reason why we have a point system and limited rounds is because there's only so long that a fighter's cardio can last, and theres only so long we wanna see them fight for.
With the exception of machida's fortunate or incredibly well placed knee (pretty sure that was a liver shot or a broken rib), machida has trouble creating effective offense in a fight. He has an amazing ability to elude his opponents offense during a fight, but his own offense is seriously lacking.
The reason why I dont think he deserves a title shot is because everyone knows what machida's game plan is. Machida evades his opponent and makes them create the offense and once he's figured out the timing, he sneaks in a shot here and there when he's confident that he wont get hit. How do you defeat this? dont create offense. You wanna throw machida out of his element, let him come to you... will he? who knows, but you risk that in a title fight, two fighters who wont engage.. so get him a title shot? not unless you wanna see 5 rounds of starnes vs starnes.
I recommend giving him chuck liddel.. see how he handles a patient counter striker who has the ability to knock machida's head clean off
I agree. People always mention how machida has stopped franklin, bonnar, sokoudjou. Which is a very impressive list I will say myself. The only thing is if you watch those fights, every one of those guys pushed the pace and were the ones engaging while machida countered and tee'd off. Even dmitri wanderley pushed the pace against him.
I would like to see how he would do against another guy who can stay in the pocket and tee off on you. Who better right now besides chuck liddell? Last year I would of picked machida to win because I would not imagine liddell being able to stay in the pocket and wait for the fighter to come to him, basically because he wanted to be a croud pleaser.
After seeing chuck go 3 rounds with silva, i think he could get back to his old pre-title ways and beat machida with a similar style to what he used against vitor belfort or jeff monson.
If people think that Machida's style is boring (I think it's interesting and innovative, but can lead to a pretty slow-paced fight), they are not going to want to watch Machida/Liddell. There could very well be whole rounds where they do nothing but circle each other and wait for the other to throw. I might be wrong, but I don't see Machida attacking Liddell and I don't see Liddell attacking Machida. Unless this is a five round fight I wouldn't expect to see much offense.
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Flame Not, Lest Ye Be Flamed Yourself.
#10 points EXC: Heat
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#24 points DREAM 2
#50 earnings TUF 6 Finale
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Post #13 5/26/08 9:40:46PM
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jgtribbett
Belt Contender
Career record: 175-106
Season: 44-25 (#1220)
Location: New Orleans, LA
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Posted by gartface
MMA needs a good Karate fighter, and Machida is amazing. That knee to Tito's liver almost knocked him out.
yeah that was great.
i wanted tito to win.. but it was awsome.. and i think it'll take someone like wandy...
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Post #14 5/26/08 9:41:28PM
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scpd400
MMA Regular
Career record: 117-81
Season: 43-27 (#1393)
Location: Oklahoma
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I think Machida has proven himself as a great fighter. I think his style is exciting. For the other fighters to try and figur him out is great. He does not let his opponent draw him to their style of fighting instead nthey have to fight his style. He deserves every shot at the title but won't beat griffin
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Post #15 5/26/08 10:18:56PM
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