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Wanderlei Silva now linked to fight Rashad Evans, then title shot.

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89vision

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Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by finnish_line

Pretty much a draw except for the fact it wasn't.

Wand was almost out on his feet a few times in that bout.

Chuck's the former long time champ. That has to count for something.

He lost a split decision to Jardine and he lost the belt to Rampage with a quick knockout.

If Chuck beats Shogun, that's more impressive than Wand beating Rashad.

Getting a title shot with a 2-1 record in UFC and a 2-3 record in your last five fights is ludicrous, especially when one of those losses wasn't you losing your title (like Chuck's situation).




Watch the fight objectively with the sound off (Rogan praises Liddell like a god, and completely ignores everything Wand does). If Liddell didn't get those punk takedowns (they would be legit if he actually intended to do something with them), it would be far from a clear cut victory.

And speaking of "almosts", Wandy almost finished Liddell when he dropped him. Maybe it was him holding back from stomping him (like he would have in Pride), or just lack of aggressiveness, but that could have been the end of the fight right there.

Split nothing with Jardine, he got outpointed the whole time, except for a few power shots he hit Jardine with. Jardine was dominating with kicks. Judges are not infallible, and I'm sure if they re-watched fights on tape they would make some different choices.

And Chuck-Page II was no "quick knockout". Wandy over Jardine was pretty quick, but 2 min is not "that quick". Rampage completely outclassed Liddell. Not his fault Liddell's boxing is technically poor. He just took complete advantage of that. I think Liddell's lost a step, and Page was able to finish him that much quicker than the first time. Don't see how it would be different the 3rd time around.

And yes, if Chuck beats Shogun (one that doesn't look like crap) that will be A LOT more impressive than Wand beating Rashad, no doubt.

Getting a title shot after 4-3 in one weight division, and 2 losses the last time at HW for Couture was a lot more ludicrous. Didn't stop the UFC from doing it.



im glad someone mentioned the bias of the liddell wandy fight, everyone was saying joe was gonna be bias for wand and that was definatly not the case, that fight was closer than a UD for Chuck but Chuck won by one point on my score card

agreed with everything else too

Post #31   5/25/08 10:47:29PM   

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Posted by ICSlegend

Watch the fight objectively with the sound off (Rogan praises Liddell like a god, and completely ignores everything Wand does). If Liddell didn't get those punk takedowns (they would be legit if he actually intended to do something with them), it would be far from a clear cut victory.

Split nothing with Jardine, he got outpointed the whole time, except for a few power shots he hit Jardine with. Jardine was dominating with kicks. Judges are not infallible, and I'm sure if they re-watched fights on tape they would make some different choices.




Regardless of what you saw in the fight, Wand/Chuck wasn't a draw, it was a loss for Wand. And Chuck/Jardine was a split decision (I don't agree with that, but what are you going to do).

These are the facts that must be taken into consideration.



Posted by ICSlegend

And Chuck-Page II was no "quick knockout". Wandy over Jardine was pretty quick, but 2 min is not "that quick". Rampage completely outclassed Liddell. Not his fault Liddell's boxing is technically poor. He just took complete advantage of that. I think Liddell's lost a step, and Page was able to finish him that much quicker than the first time. Don't see how it would be different the 3rd time around.



Now you're just inventing things. It was the first or second time they engaged. Chuck hit a body shot, left himself open, Rampage hit a punch. That's it.

There's nothing else to learn from that fight. It was a quick knockout. It wasn't set up by anything. Chuck wasn't gassed from three brutal rounds. A punch connected. Great for Rampage, sucks for Chuck.




Posted by ICSlegend

Getting a title shot after 4-3 in one weight division, and 2 losses the last time at HW for Couture was a lot more ludicrous. Didn't stop the UFC from doing it.



That was a special situation and a combination of:

-Randy coming out of hall of fame retirement
and
-No other real options for a marquee heavyweight title fight

LHW is loaded with options, many of them much more logical than Wanderlei beating up Rashad and thus getting an automatic title shot.


Post #32   5/25/08 10:48:11PM   

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Posted by 89vision
besides, theres no doubt that Machida is next anyway




I see no way of that happening.

Post #33   5/25/08 10:50:46PM   

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I think Rashad / Machida for the #1 contender would be the most fair. Besides Thiago (who hasn't faced the same level of competition) they are the only two who haven't lost.

My I think marketability is more what the UFC is thinking. UFC could sell Wand / Rampage 3 or Wand / Chuck 2 much easier.

Post #34   5/25/08 11:21:22PM   

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I can't remember who said this but I last time I checked 4-3 and getting a title shot doesn't seem way more ludicrous than being 2-3. That's just ridiculous. Oh no Randy got knocked out twice in a row Last time I checked so did Wanderlei. He doesn't deserve a shot yet and I really don't see how beating Evans would get him one.

Post #35   5/25/08 11:31:04PM   

ICSlegend

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Posted by finnish_line

Regardless of what you saw in the fight, Wand/Chuck wasn't a draw, it was a loss for Wand. And Chuck/Jardine was a split decision (I don't agree with that, but what are you going to do).

These are the facts that must be taken into consideration.



Well officially, yeah, and while it should be taken into consideration, it should not be a DEFINING FACTOR. Finishing someone holds a lot more ground than a decision.


Posted by finnish_line

Now you're just inventing things. It was the first or second time they engaged. Chuck hit a body shot, left himself open, Rampage hit a punch. That's it.

There's nothing else to learn from that fight. It was a quick knockout. It wasn't set up by anything. Chuck wasn't gassed from three brutal rounds. A punch connected. Great for Rampage, sucks for Chuck.



Ok, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, and rewatched the fight. And it is in fact as I remembered it, you're WAY OFF BASE here.

Chuck threw TWENTY-TWO punches/jabs.
Rampage partially hit him with a 1-2.

You completely ignored the above. Chuck made 22 attempts to hit Rampage and ZERO connected, Rampage dodges or parried ALL OF THEM. That's just straight up outclassing right there.

THEN Chuck went for the body shot and left himself wide open, and Rampage capitalized.

Of course Chuck wasn't gassed from 3 rounds, he wasn't good enough to last that long.


Posted by finnish_line

That was a special situation and a combination of:

-Randy coming out of hall of fame retirement
and
-No other real options for a marquee heavyweight title fight

LHW is loaded with options, many of them much more logical than Wanderlei beating up Rashad and thus getting an automatic title shot.





Well I said it was "more ludicrous" in comparison, but I didn't really have a problem with Couture challenging for the title.

And you would have a solid argument against Wandy, if he hadn't ALREADY DOMINATED AND FINISHED Rampage TWICE before.

Last edited 5/25/08 11:53PM server time by ICSlegend
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Post #36   5/25/08 11:50:52PM   

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ok this is the order no bias or nething the order is
1. machida (mostly cuz the tito fight and soko fight cuz he has a hard time stopping figths which anoys me about him)
2. Rashad (he is yet to lose he wins boring as hell but he wins)
3. real close between liddel and wandy but i have 2 give it 2 wandy he lost a extreme close decsion to liddell but what makes me give it 2 him is he DESTROYED the champ not once but TWICE and the guy who just beat the ice man for 2 out of 3 rounds wandy ran right through With alot of style points plus wandy rampage 3 is way more intriguing then rampage liddell 3
4. Chuck liddell
5. Thiago silva just hasnt fought top class opponets yet but hes getting there
6. jardine who got knocked down alot after that fight with wandy
7. Shogun who is a wildcard in this all

my call is machida gets it next no matter what
loser of griffin rampage (hopefully rampage) fights wandy and if wandy wins tittle shot
then chuck vs shogun winner there would shoot 2 the top
and thiago vs either rashad or jardine ... idc just get him a top fight

Post #37   5/26/08 12:47:27AM   

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Posted by 89vision


Posted by Red-Dragon

Everyone seems to be forgetting Machida. He deserves a title shot before Wandy who is 1-1 in the UFC.




uh, wandy is 2-3 in the UFC bud

besides, theres no doubt that Machida is next anyway



Yeah fair enough if you want to be picky but I was talking about since his return to UFC. You knew that.

Post #38   5/26/08 7:08:34AM   

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Posted by ICSlegend

Ok, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, and rewatched the fight. And it is in fact as I remembered it, you're WAY OFF BASE here.

Chuck threw TWENTY-TWO punches/jabs.
Rampage partially hit him with a 1-2.

You completely ignored the above. Chuck made 22 attempts to hit Rampage and ZERO connected, Rampage dodges or parried ALL OF THEM. That's just straight up outclassing right there.

THEN Chuck went for the body shot and left himself wide open, and Rampage capitalized.




The first minute or two of a title fight is a feeling out process. Range finding.

I haven't seen the fight since it happened, but I still think you're giving Rampage too much credit considering the sample size we have to work off of.


And what happened in PRIDE between Rampage and Wand or Rampage and Chuck means nothing to 90% of the UFC ppv buying audience.

What does mean something to them is seeing their hero Liddell lose to Rampage and wanting to see him get a shot again at the belt he held for so long.

Post #39   5/26/08 9:56:21AM   

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I think Liddell fights have become less interesting since he seems to have abandoned his kicks. Now he relies on his heavy hands to much and is getting found out. Silva is much more exciting to watch and Machida is a far better fighter in technique.

Post #40   5/26/08 10:38:21AM   
 
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