Machida style=boring match |
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Keeping the pimp hand strong
Career record: 181-78
Season: 47-23 (#525)
Location: Oklahoma
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Well I will say this it really doesn't matter to say you think some fighter is boring or exciting everyone is entitled to their opinions. But what I disagree with is people saying he doesn't try to finish fights or that he is running away. He almost finished Tito in the 1st round (with GnP) and in the 3rd(with a knee to the liver) the hole time he was picking Tito apart on his feet without take any damage at all himself. Machida also finished Sokoudjou a top 10 LHW in his last fight with a Arm Triangle. So just because he isn't standing flat footed trading shots doesn't mean he is running away or isn't trying to finish fights.
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Anxiously awaiting Scott "The Pit Bull" Ferrozzo's return.
The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose.
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Post #61 5/26/08 3:52:17AM
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Jlloyd
MMA Regular
Career record: 0-0
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Birmingham, England
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Machidas ******* awesome
I'm not an expert in MMA but i love watching Machidas tactical fighting
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Post #62 5/26/08 6:17:16AM
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Hammer of the Gods
Career record: 218-128
Season: 50-20 (#185)
Location: Hudson, NH
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A lot has been said here, both ways, but I just wanted to point a few things out. If you don't think Machida tries to finish fights, check out his fight vs. Franklin, Bonner and Heath. Franklin got absolutely tooled, Bonner has to have his cuts checked at least four times and Heath looked like hamburger waiting for the decision to come down.
I think of Machida like a Chinese finger trap. The harder you go at him, the harder he comes back at you, and the only reason Tito survived that fight was because he also fought an entirely conservative fight. Bonner tried to take it to him and ate so many counter lefts that his nose and both eyes were mashed. He looked twice as bad after that fight as with his first fight with Griffin. Franklin tried to run a clinch game and got blasted with counterpunches and knees until he dropped. Heath tried to brawl him and his legs and face were demolished in the process.
The guy can finish fights, but isn't going to risk losing the fight to do it. The majority of fans might want to see a haymaker bloodbath, but not only is that a foolish way to fight as far as your wins and loses are concerned, it takes YEARS off your fighting career from the broken noses and hands, facial scars, and potential brain damage. Look at the shape guys like Sakuraba and Ken Shamrock are in because of those kinds of fights. Machida is always injury free and walks away from his fights in shape to fight again the next day if he wanted to. Thats smart businesswise and healthwise.
As for his being boring outside the ring, Machida gives the best interviews in MMA in my opinion. You can learn a TON about the fight game from reading how he prepares for the fight and his mindset going into it, and believe me, mindset is 90% of the fight game.
You can think hes boring, but theres no denying hes a brilliant tactician and athlete for what he does, and comparing him to Kalib Starnes is an absolute insult.
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Post #63 5/26/08 6:27:34AM
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Broknmunky
MMA Regular
Career record: 114-52
Season: 28-11 (#3797)
Location: South Carolina
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I couldn't agree more! The man is undefeated and people in this thread are saying he has won all his fights by running away?! Another 30 seconds in that first rnd. and he woulda had a tko imo. And a great escape from that triangle in the third.
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Post #64 5/26/08 6:52:47AM
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keith-hackney1
Belt Contender
Career record: 180-150
Season: 39-31 (#2153)
Location: hampshire, england
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Posted by Svartorm
A lot has been said here, both ways, but I just wanted to point a few things out. If you don't think Machida tries to finish fights, check out his fight vs. Franklin, Bonner and Heath. Franklin got absolutely tooled, Bonner has to have his cuts checked at least four times and Heath looked like hamburger waiting for the decision to come down.
I think of Machida like a Chinese finger trap. The harder you go at him, the harder he comes back at you, and the only reason Tito survived that fight was because he also fought an entirely conservative fight. Bonner tried to take it to him and ate so many counter lefts that his nose and both eyes were mashed. He looked twice as bad after that fight as with his first fight with Griffin. Franklin tried to run a clinch game and got blasted with counterpunches and knees until he dropped. Heath tried to brawl him and his legs and face were demolished in the process.
The guy can finish fights, but isn't going to risk losing the fight to do it. The majority of fans might want to see a haymaker bloodbath, but not only is that a foolish way to fight as far as your wins and loses are concerned, it takes YEARS off your fighting career from the broken noses and hands, facial scars, and potential brain damage. Look at the shape guys like Sakuraba and Ken Shamrock are in because of those kinds of fights. Machida is always injury free and walks away from his fights in shape to fight again the next day if he wanted to. Thats smart businesswise and healthwise.
As for his being boring outside the ring, Machida gives the best interviews in MMA in my opinion. You can learn a TON about the fight game from reading how he prepares for the fight and his mindset going into it, and believe me, mindset is 90% of the fight game.
You can think hes boring, but theres no denying hes a brilliant tactician and athlete for what he does, and comparing him to Kalib Starnes is an absolute insult.
Props !!
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Post #65 5/26/08 7:12:34AM
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BigPappa
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 86-56
Season: 11-7 (#6651)
Location: Vermont
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Posted by 89vision
people who dont like him just dont understand what hes doing in there, hes not wandy goin in there out of control, lyoto's chin is underrated, he dosnt have to be so elusive but its a smart way to fight, and you've got to appreciate all facets of fighting, a guy whos patient while standing is twice as exciting as a LnP fighter
you're wrong, i don't like machida and i understand completely about what he's doing inside the cage. he's a smart fighter and thats why he is undefeated, but i just dislike his style and find it boring. it's not a misunderstanding on my part its just my opinion; people don't need a reason to dislike someone,.it could just be an arbitrary choice.
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Post #66 5/26/08 9:34:04AM
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JBatch
In Full Mount
Career record: 206-114
Season: 41-29 (#2608)
Location: Windsor
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Posted by jiujitsufreak74
Posted by fonduktoe
Posted by JBatch
He was Kalib Starned without a broken foot. I am not a Tito fan or a Machida fan but a huge MMA fan. I was incredibly excited for this fight and was extremely dissappointed. This is the precise reason why the UFC needs a yellow card system.
Anyone saying that was a great effort is delusional there is nothing great about running away throwing a kick or two then running some more. Also the fight being scored 30-27 by all the refs was ludacris, that whole fight was a farce.
I had the same feeling after that fight that I did after the Starnes fight, utter disbelief that someone calls themselves a fighter when all they do is run.
Both of you fail
running away and cutting angles are not the same thing...Kpro and JimiMak said all i have to say from there...please head their words because with those
comments you come off as ignorant
Iwill tell you what I respect all of you in support of Machida and his beautiful tactical style OK. I understand what he is trying to do, I have been a fanof the sport for many many years, I box, do some Jits and have been wrestling for years. I know how to cut angles and whatever else you guys propose he was doing.
He ran. I think Svartom brought up the point he almost finished 2 times, yes he did but that was about 30 seconds of a 15 minute fight. How much of the fight was he backpedaling or str8 up running and not engaging about 12 minutes. Yes Svartom he could fight the next day but you aren't being paid $70 000 to backpedal for 15 minutes your paid to fight. It is MO and IMHO I don't respect fighters who refuse to engage.
We are all entitled to our opinions and calling me ignorant will not change my opinion, telling meI know nothing about MMA is absurd.
I pose one question would you rather have a roster full of Machida's or a roster full of W. Silva's??? Would you pay $50 to watch a card with fights like Machida vs. Tito, Gonzaga vs. Jordan, Sylvia vs. Arlovski 3, Starnes vs. Quarry and Arlovski vs.Werdum???
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Post #67 5/26/08 10:30:48AM
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VictimSix
MMA Regular
Career record: 58-41
Season: 18-9 (#5434)
Location: Chicago
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He ran. I think Svartom brought up the point he almost finished 2 times, yes he did but that was about 30 seconds of a 15 minute fight. How much of the fight was he backpedaling or str8 up running and not engaging about 12 minutes. Yes Svartom he could fight the next day but you aren't being paid $70 000 to backpedal for 15 minutes your paid to fight. It is MO and IMHO I don't respect fighters who refuse to engage.
We are all entitled to our opinions and calling me ignorant will not change my opinion, telling meI know nothing about MMA is absurd.
If you have infact been boxing for years then you would not have said he was running. Watch close and you will see he hardly ever actually takes a step back, he slips, side steps and resets. The harder you press on Machida the harder he counters. I don't care if you think he's boring but saying he dosn't show up to fight is just plain disrespectfull. He had the most exciting strike of the night. Let me ask you something in all seriousness. What do you think of Ali and Pernell Whitaker ? Did you think they were running? Sense when is slick defense and flashy foot work running? Lateral movment is NOT backpedaling. Backpedaling is what Sherk did before he got caught.
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Post #68 5/26/08 10:51:33AM
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The People's Mod
Career record: 152-91
Season: 47-23 (#137)
Location: Getting choked out or arm barred
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Posted by JBatch
Iwill tell you what I respect all of you in support of Machida and his beautiful tactical style OK. I understand what he is trying to do, I have been a fanof the sport for many many years, I box, do some Jits and have been wrestling for years. I know how to cut angles and whatever else you guys propose he was doing.
He ran. I think Svartom brought up the point he almost finished 2 times, yes he did but that was about 30 seconds of a 15 minute fight. How much of the fight was he backpedaling or str8 up running and not engaging about 12 minutes. Yes Svartom he could fight the next day but you aren't being paid $70 000 to backpedal for 15 minutes your paid to fight. It is MO and IMHO I don't respect fighters who refuse to engage.
We are all entitled to our opinions and calling me ignorant will not change my opinion, telling meI know nothing about MMA is absurd.
I pose one question would you rather have a roster full of Machida's or a roster full of W. Silva's??? Would you pay $50 to watch a card with fights like Machida vs. Tito, Gonzaga vs. Jordan, Sylvia vs. Arlovski 3, Starnes vs. Quarry and Arlovski vs.Werdum???
I find it very, very, very hard to believe you box on any respectable level if you can't see that Machida wasn't backpedalling.
I DO understand where you're going with the excitement factor and I have since the beginning. One thing I will promise you is that Machida's fights won't always be this boring. You've got to lay at least 50% of the boredom factor on Tito's shoulders. He didn't know how to get inside and cut off the corners against Lyoto. In the few times he did get inside and they did trade punches he got his ass handed to him in the first couple seconds and had to back out. Tito does not and will never have standup skills to match up with a fighter like that. His forte is the ground, and he couldn't get it there. On the few times he did get inside to take Lyoto down he got schucked off and tossed to the side like a little girl. Maybe if he could have taken him down it would have been exciting for fans like yourself. The blame lies on Tito's head in that situation for not being able to take him down. If you think he "won" the fight by running away and that he has no skills then how can you explain him dropping Tito on his ass like a baby and pummeling him in the crucifix position towards the end of the first? Tito is supposed to be the one scoring takedowns here, not Lyoto!
Personally, I view all of those as the reasons why I find Lyoto exciting. He avoided the takedowns and ultimately made an accomplished MMA veteran, an Abu Dhabi submission wrestling 3rd place finisher (over the likes of Matt Hughes, Mike Van Arsdale, taking Ricardo Arona to a decision, etc. etc.) and one of the most dominant UFC LHW champions look like a fool in there.
Myself and members of my camp picked this fight to be a UD specifically because we knew the style matchup wouldn't make for a slugfest. Hell, if you want to blame the match makers for making a boring fight, then do it! I promise you Lyoto will be a sight to see for a long time coming. Put Machida in there against a guy like Wanderlei and I promise you there will be fireworks and very likely a finish by Lyoto Machida. It's just that these styles made for a boring fight. You can't blame Lyoto for not wanting to get caught by a sloppy haymaker from Tito.
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"It is a shame that in this society we've been taught to judge a man's worth by what he owns instead of who he is." - Evan Tanner
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Post #69 5/26/08 11:04:00AM
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LETS GO G-MEN!
Career record: 66-45
Season: 41-29 (#1865)
Location: Selden, Long Island
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I dont see how anyone say he was running away. as you saw hed hit tito and the move hit tito then move thats called strategy. its not like kalib sternes who didnt even try to hit quarry he just ran away. machida was the one that did the most damage unlike starnes who did absoloutely nothing
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Post #70 5/26/08 11:12:17AM
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GREENMAN!!!!
Career record: 134-73
Season: 50-20 (#178)
Location: selden, new york
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Posted by JBatch
Posted by jiujitsufreak74
Posted by fonduktoe
Posted by JBatch
He was Kalib Starned without a broken foot. I am not a Tito fan or a Machida fan but a huge MMA fan. I was incredibly excited for this fight and was extremely dissappointed. This is the precise reason why the UFC needs a yellow card system.
Anyone saying that was a great effort is delusional there is nothing great about running away throwing a kick or two then running some more. Also the fight being scored 30-27 by all the refs was ludacris, that whole fight was a farce.
I had the same feeling after that fight that I did after the Starnes fight, utter disbelief that someone calls themselves a fighter when all they do is run.
Both of you fail
running away and cutting angles are not the same thing...Kpro and JimiMak said all i have to say from there...please head their words because with those
comments you come off as ignorant
Iwill tell you what I respect all of you in support of Machida and his beautiful tactical style OK. I understand what he is trying to do, I have been a fanof the sport for many many years, I box, do some Jits and have been wrestling for years. I know how to cut angles and whatever else you guys propose he was doing.
He ran. I think Svartom brought up the point he almost finished 2 times, yes he did but that was about 30 seconds of a 15 minute fight. How much of the fight was he backpedaling or str8 up running and not engaging about 12 minutes. Yes Svartom he could fight the next day but you aren't being paid $70 000 to backpedal for 15 minutes your paid to fight. It is MO and IMHO I don't respect fighters who refuse to engage.
We are all entitled to our opinions and calling me ignorant will not change my opinion, telling meI know nothing about MMA is absurd.
I pose one question would you rather have a roster full of Machida's or a roster full of W. Silva's??? Would you pay $50 to watch a card with fights like Machida vs. Tito, Gonzaga vs. Jordan, Sylvia vs. Arlovski 3, Starnes vs. Quarry and Arlovski vs.Werdum???
i was merely pointing out that you came off as ignorant not that you actually were. i am sorry for the hostility that my post carried...it is just that i am frustrated with the lack of appreciation. again, you are right as it is your opinion but as Jackelope said it is hard to believe you box on a high level if you think what he was doing was backpedaling.
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Post #71 5/26/08 2:03:57PM
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Keeping the pimp hand strong
Career record: 181-78
Season: 47-23 (#525)
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted by Svartorm
A lot has been said here, both ways, but I just wanted to point a few things out. If you don't think Machida tries to finish fights, check out his fight vs. Franklin, Bonner and Heath. Franklin got absolutely tooled, Bonner has to have his cuts checked at least four times and Heath looked like hamburger waiting for the decision to come down.
I think of Machida like a Chinese finger trap. The harder you go at him, the harder he comes back at you, and the only reason Tito survived that fight was because he also fought an entirely conservative fight. Bonner tried to take it to him and ate so many counter lefts that his nose and both eyes were mashed. He looked twice as bad after that fight as with his first fight with Griffin. Franklin tried to run a clinch game and got blasted with counterpunches and knees until he dropped. Heath tried to brawl him and his legs and face were demolished in the process.
The guy can finish fights, but isn't going to risk losing the fight to do it. The majority of fans might want to see a haymaker bloodbath, but not only is that a foolish way to fight as far as your wins and loses are concerned, it takes YEARS off your fighting career from the broken noses and hands, facial scars, and potential brain damage. Look at the shape guys like Sakuraba and Ken Shamrock are in because of those kinds of fights. Machida is always injury free and walks away from his fights in shape to fight again the next day if he wanted to. Thats smart businesswise and healthwise.
As for his being boring outside the ring, Machida gives the best interviews in MMA in my opinion. You can learn a TON about the fight game from reading how he prepares for the fight and his mindset going into it, and believe me, mindset is 90% of the fight game.
You can think hes boring, but theres no denying hes a brilliant tactician and athlete for what he does, and comparing him to Kalib Starnes is an absolute insult.
Great post with everything you said. I would give props but got to spread my love around. (I feel dirty every time I talk about spreading my love)
_______________________________________
Anxiously awaiting Scott "The Pit Bull" Ferrozzo's return.
The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose.
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Post #72 5/26/08 2:22:13PM
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keith-hackney1
Belt Contender
Career record: 180-150
Season: 39-31 (#2153)
Location: hampshire, england
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For all you tito fans, i got to point out how satisfying it was to see ortiz lose a unanimous decision for once !!!!
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Post #73 5/27/08 6:18:25AM
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JBatch
In Full Mount
Career record: 206-114
Season: 41-29 (#2608)
Location: Windsor
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I am not saying I am a pro boxer I've been boxing at an amateur level for over a year now. As for Machida's style I have just finished rewatching the fight after taking so much flack over the last day or so. I will say maybe my disgust at the fight was a tiny bit to do with my betting on Tito and changing my pick in the fight from a Machida UD to Ortiz the night be4 the fight, plus the beers consumed prior to watching the fight.
Rd 1 Dominated by Machida.
Rd 2 2:35 mark I am almost ready to blame this fight being boring on Tito, he is too slow.
By mid rd 3 I have seen Machida basically run away from Tito 3 times but does it to get a better angle on his slow opponent. I woud love to see Machida vs. Lil Nog.
Still thought he spent way to much time running from engagements. Chuck has th esame style with the constant side shuffle but he engages way more frequently.
Positives about Machida.
1) Awesome TD defense.
2) Takes little punishment.
3) Dictates pace of fight and when and where exchanges will take place.
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Post #74 5/27/08 1:26:27PM
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Pookie
Heavyweight Champ
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Career record: 203-92
Season: 52-18 (#56)
Location: 707
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Posted by JBatch
I pose one question would you rather have a roster full of Machida's or a roster full of W. Silva's??? Would you pay $50 to watch a card with fights like Machida vs. Tito, Gonzaga vs. Jordan, Sylvia vs. Arlovski 3, Starnes vs. Quarry and Arlovski vs.Werdum???
Well thats a terrible comparison. I would rather have my roster full of w. silva's over any other fighter in fighting history period.
Thats like saying would you rather have Martin luther king jr. speak at your graduation or Jesus. Yeah of course everybody is going to choose jesus, but it doesnt mean MLK jr. isnt more than worthy or the spot.
Last edited 5/27/08 2:39PM by pookie
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #75 5/27/08 2:36:14PM
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