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Is TUF going down?
Is TUF going down? |
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 172-130
Season: 17-13 (#1544)
Location: Canada
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I've stopped watching TUF this season and to be honest, I didn't really watch it much the last two seasons. I have found the drama to be just ridiculous lately. Also, during the premiere this season I thought a lot of the fighters were not that great and most just looked like they started doing MMA, and martial arts in general, in the past year. It seems I wasn't the only one as I have heard some similar remarks from some members.
My questions are.
Has TUF just become Big Brother with fighting instead of games? Has this made a less serious show?
Is the UFC putting on too many shows? There have been 7 seasons in about 3 years.
Is the UFC really trying to find great fighters? Or do they find a few good fighters that they think will win (and they can market), then fill the rest of the show with cans. Do they do this to try and get more finishes on the show?
Do they pick some fighters based on their potential to be strange or dramatic in front of the camera, more than their ability to fight in the ring?
We've been hearing that the ratings have gone down. Is that because the quality of fighters appears to be declining? Or has the UFC just saturated the viewers by putting on 2 shows over a year? Is it just that people are tired of the same old stuff every show? Dana said there would be big changes this season, but really that was only the first episode. Not only that, the format of the show was predictable from S1E1 in that it was easy to predict if a fight was a finish or decision and possibly whom got knocked out/lost.
Personally I think the show is starting on a downward spiral and that next season will be the beginning of the end. I don't see TUF going past 10 seasons.
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MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 13, IPs banned - 12
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Post #1 5/15/08 10:58:25AM
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mrsmiley
MMA Sensei
Career record: 135-88
Season: 15-11 (#3907)
Location:
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I continue to hear the shows ratings are going down,but to be honest I like watching it.The only problem I have is that it seems like they rely on the show too much sometimes.But they continue to make new seasons,so apparently they are doing something right.
I think Zuffa is trying to figure out the best format to have MMA on tv,and at the moment (other than PPV),having a show on SPIKE TV is the best way for people to get a constant fix of MMA everyweek.TUF is the perfect format to accomplish this as of right now.
I don't think MMA can work if it was promoted and handled the same way boxing is.Yet at the same time you can't advertise it like pro-wrestling and have a weekly event were all your top names are fighting,etc.
I think shows like Unleashed are good,and the pre-fight shows always give a good look into the training routines of fighters preparing for their upcoming matches.I think as a fan,I would much rather see more of that.Maybe a new show that interviews fighters live,take phone calls,show highlight reels and promote rivalries and upcoming fights.
Were the TUF is a genius idea though,is that not only do they get to promote a big fight between 2 champions and build tension,but they also get to highlight the up and comers and put newblood in the spot light.
So like you said though,why is it failing then?Or at least on a gradual decline.
and my answer...........................................
Hell I don't know.
I think what we are starting to see is the storm or big explosion of MMA starting to die down,and what is left is the core audieance. (at least until the next big fighter comes around)
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Post #2 5/15/08 11:16:54AM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 197-108
Season: 21-7 (#62)
Location: Champion City
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Actually, the reverse is true. You may have stopped watching at exactly the wrong time. The last few episodes have featured two fights each, with almost none of the frat-boy antics that were so tiresome in previous seasons.
As for TUF being a good tool for finding new talent, I think it's been a fantastic success. I mean, jeepers, imagine what the UFC would look like right now without all of the TUF graduates. I was thinking about the fact that TUF 8 won't feature Heavyweights, which seems to be what the UFC needs, and it might be because they just don't think there's enough of a talent pool out there to get 12-16 legit fighters onto the show.
As for the declining ratings, I think it's partly a function of the "Real World" stuff that drove you away, partly that the novelty has worn off, and partly because most UFC fans aren't yet MMA fans.
_______________________________________
"Don't start that again. Lance Hunt wears glasses. Captain Amazing _doesn't_ wear glasses."
"He takes them off when he transforms."
"That doesn't make any sense. He wouldn't be able to see."
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Post #3 5/15/08 11:21:18AM
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go vegan
Career record: 161-84
Season: 19-11 (#773)
Location: Cincinnati
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I agree with some of Achilles' thoughts. There has been ZERO in house drama this season. I have a feeling some may be coming soon now that fighters have been eliminated, but so far it has been all fighting. However, I DO think there is PLENTY of talent out there to fill 12-16 spots. The problem is a lot of the talent is tied up with IFL or EliteXC or DREAM etc and isn't really willing or available. Therefore, they pick up really really raw guys instead of proven vets for the most part. That's why most of the guys from the past couple seasons really don't belong in the UFC yet.
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Post #4 5/15/08 11:35:21AM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 172-130
Season: 17-13 (#1544)
Location: Canada
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Posted by AchillesHeel
As for TUF being a good tool for finding new talent, I think it's been a fantastic success. I mean, jeepers, imagine what the UFC would look like right now without all of the TUF graduates. I was thinking about the fact that TUF 8 won't feature Heavyweights, which seems to be what the UFC needs, and it might be because they just don't think there's enough of a talent pool out there to get 12-16 legit fighters onto the show.
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I agree that some top fighters have come from TUF, but you have to admit, recently, the top TUF fighters could have (or should have) been in the UFC without the show.
Last season - too early to tell, but I felt that Mac could have been big in the UFC without TUF. This may be the season with the most talent, but again, time will tell.
S5 - Lauzon was in the UFC prior to TUF, Manny and Nate could have made noise without TUF. After those guys, I would say a few others may be good, but it is a little early to tell.
S4 - Not the a good example because the point was to get fighters that fought in the UFC before. However, IMO this was probably the best or second best season for idea and execution. Stil, who's left and considered decent? Lytle, Serra and Côté?
S3 - Bisping and Hamill. Bisping was pretty decorated before TUF and could have come to the UFC without it. TUF has been a blessing for Hamill, but again, I think he could have found a decent fight camp with his wrestling credentials if he tried.
I am looking through the lists of each season's fighters and with the UFC's latest string of cuts, there are only 2-4 fighters left from each season. Season 1 and 2 being the exceptions and S2 having a bunch of fighters that are on the bubble if you ask me.
Where am I going with this? I guess I feel that all the top fighters that came from TUF were good enough to either get in the UFC themselves without TUF and/or find high end fight camps on their own. I know TUF was made to promote these up and coming fighters, but the thing is, I find myself less interested in the show and thus the fighters each season, yet I am interested in MMA more than I ever was since I started watching it from UFC 2.
The guys that I think should be in TUF right now are the guys that are like 3-0 or 3-1 (less than 5 fights) and are pretty talented. some of the guys from S5 could fit this (like Grey Maynard), but again, it is early to tell how bright their futures might be. Unfortunatly most of the fighters that I have seen with those kind of records really look sloppy. So sloppy it makes me wonder how they could get on the show, but Jeff Joslin couldn't.
Last edited 5/15/08 11:55AM by Rush
Edit note/reason: n/a
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MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 13, IPs banned - 12
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Post #5 5/15/08 11:54:24AM
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JWils
Standup Guy
Career record: 133-70
Season: 20-10 (#733)
Location: Southern Illinois
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My opinion on TUF is that they need to stop having two seasons every year. Cut that back to 1 each year and I think it will survive. I think that the format they had for this season is good. I really enjoyed the first two episodes with the guys fighting their way on the show.
If I was calling the shots, I would cut back to 1 season a year with 1 weight class and have the guys fight their way on the show. My thinking behind the 1 weight class system is that there will be enought time to find quality fighters in the other weight classes by the time their chance comes to fight on the show. I think the talent well is running dry by having 2 seasons each year with most of the seasons having multiple weight classes.
Last edited 5/15/08 12:10PM by JWils
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #6 5/15/08 12:08:58PM
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Lockfrow
MMA Regular
Career record: 51-34
Season: 20-10 (#1293)
Location:
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Has TUF just become Big Brother with fighting instead of games? Has this made a less serious show?
Almost, not quite. I'm not sure it was ever a serious show.
Is the UFC really trying to find great fighters? Or do they find a few good fighters that they think will win (and they can market), then fill the rest of the show with cans. Do they do this to try and get more finishes on the show?
I felt bad for Mac, he didnt really get to showcase his skills, he just walked through those guys. I definitely think more cans=more KO's
Do they pick some fighters based on their potential to be strange or dramatic in front of the camera, more than their ability to fight in the ring?
Definitely, I'm waiting for Joe Son to be on a season.
We've been hearing that the ratings have gone down. Is that because the quality of fighters appears to be declining? Or has the UFC just saturated the viewers by putting on 2 shows over a year? Is it just that people are tired of the same old stuff every show?
Tired of same old stuff. Springer figured it out you have to keep pushing to grow the show in mainstream.
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Post #7 5/15/08 12:11:14PM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 172-130
Season: 17-13 (#1544)
Location: Canada
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Posted by JWils
My opinion on TUF is that they need to stop having two seasons every year. Cut that back to 1 each year and I think it will survive. I think that the format they had for this season is good. I really enjoyed the first two episodes with the guys fighting their way on the show.
I agree one show a year would be better, but I would change the format. I would make it a longer season. Sixteen fighters, eight each, from two weight classes.
The first round would be pseudo round robin, where each fighter needs to fight 3 fights, which are randomly generated and would not fight the same guy twice. Here would be my schedule.
Come to the house, train 2 weeks with UFC coaches
round 1 of round robin
Go home and train 2 months
Come to house and train with 2 different UFC coaches (2 weeks)
round 2 of round robin
Go home and train 2 months
Come to house and train with 2 different UFC coaches (2 weeks)
round 3 of round robin
Go home and train 2 months
Seed the fighters in an 8 man elimination style bracket with respect to how they did in the round robin. Hold one bracket each week for a month, while they train and stay at the house.
The round robin fights would not count toward the official record, but the elimination fights would. Heck, the elimination fights could even be part of an fight night event.
Total fights - 36 fights
round robin - 16 fighters x 3 fights each divided by 2 = 24 fights
elimination - 7 fights per bracket x 2 = 14 fights (- 2 for the finale show)
Under the new format there are currently - 16 + 14 - 1 = 29 fights (not including the finale fight) per season. The fighters spend roughly the same time in the house and the same time with the coaches. However, the show (I think) will put more emphasis on the development of the fighter over time as opposed to what a fighter can pick up in a few weeks.
This business of control and pitting the coaches against each other is crapola if you ask me. The show, by definition, should be about the fighters, but I find that it is as much or more about the coaches.
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MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 13, IPs banned - 12
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Post #8 5/15/08 12:43:08PM
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2-0-9 Represent!
Career record: 119-84
Season: 18-12 (#1965)
Location: In A Gina Carano Peruvian Neck Tie
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Posted by Rush
I've stopped watching TUF this season and to be honest, I didn't really watch it much the last two seasons. I have found the drama to be just ridiculous lately. Also, during the premiere this season I thought a lot of the fighters were not that great and most just looked like they started doing MMA, and martial arts in general, in the past year. It seems I wasn't the only one as I have heard some similar remarks from some members.
My questions are.
Has TUF just become Big Brother with fighting instead of games? Has this made a less serious show?
Is the UFC putting on too many shows? There have been 7 seasons in about 3 years.
Is the UFC really trying to find great fighters? Or do they find a few good fighters that they think will win (and they can market), then fill the rest of the show with cans. Do they do this to try and get more finishes on the show?
Do they pick some fighters based on their potential to be strange or dramatic in front of the camera, more than their ability to fight in the ring?
We've been hearing that the ratings have gone down. Is that because the quality of fighters appears to be declining? Or has the UFC just saturated the viewers by putting on 2 shows over a year? Is it just that people are tired of the same old stuff every show? Dana said there would be big changes this season, but really that was only the first episode. Not only that, the format of the show was predictable from S1E1 in that it was easy to predict if a fight was a finish or decision and possibly whom got knocked out/lost.
Personally I think the show is starting on a downward spiral and that next season will be the beginning of the end. I don't see TUF going past 10 seasons.
My answers to the questions (in order):
No, although it does seem there is now a little less emphasis on the fights and more on just what goes on in the house. The last episode (last week, not last night) showed that if they want to really build up a fight, they can.
Yes, they are doing too many shows. Well, 2 a year isn't too bad but it now seems that they're too close together. Run one from March-May then go September-November. That's probably the best way and it gives us some nice downtime between shows and allows UFC to focus on the bigger PPV cards.
No, it just seems that they look for some guys with legit potential and experience but also guys that have a look/persona that can be marketable. If Dana had to choose between a Rich Franklin and a Tim Sylvia in terms of marketability instead of actual fighting skills/potential, he'll probably take the Franklin. He's got the looks, personality, and charisma to attract fans, sponsors, and money.
Yes, pretty much answered the last question above.
I'd like to see TUF keep going as it's had good fights, good fighters, and some great stories come out of it, but Dana really needs to take a look at this season's ratings because what he's doing is not working. But as long as Spike keeps drawing in the 18-34 guys they will be happy. That's why TNA Wrestling is still on despite only averaging a 1.0-1.1 rating like TUF does now.
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Post #9 5/15/08 12:50:57PM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 197-108
Season: 21-7 (#62)
Location: Champion City
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Posted by Rush
I agree that some top fighters have come from TUF, but you have to admit, recently, the top TUF fighters could have (or should have) been in the UFC without the show.
Yeah, totally. I always thought it was weird to see Danzig in TUF. It took away a lot the anticipation. And guys like Nate Diaz and Manny Gamburyan might have been discovered anyway, because of their ties to known UFC guys. On the other hand, how many guys come out to the TUF tryouts, just as a way to get on the UFC's radar? All of 'em, I imagine. It's probably better than competing at small, local shows in the hope of being discovered. It's like the UFC's version of the NFL combine.
But does any of that make watching these fights less fun? I suppose Danzig made the TUF6 competition less exciting, because he was such a heavy favorite, but I still watched it, to see the other guys. TUF, to me, is simply the bottom tier of UFC events, Ultimate Fight Night and pay-per-view cards being the 2nd and 1st tier. I suppose they could rearrange it so that live UFN cards are more frequent, and include more unknown fighters. People would complain about that, of course, but people will complain about anything.
The only thing I see about the TUF fights that's questionable is the fact that the fights aren't sanctioned, and therefore don't "count." If all of the fights we see in TUF took place during live Ultimate Fight Nights, they would be "official." I'm not sure how much I care, though. The only time I find it irritating is when I can't remember who beat whom, and I can't go look it up on Sherdog.
To me, TUF means 1 or 2 MMA fights a week, featuring guys I've mostly never heard of before, for free. It's like watching the Red Sox' Double-A team once a week on television (which, incidentally, I can't do, so the UFC has gone MLB one better, in that respect). And lately, they've decided to subject me to less of the boring frat-house shenanigans that I always surfed away from anyway. So much the better.
_______________________________________
"Don't start that again. Lance Hunt wears glasses. Captain Amazing _doesn't_ wear glasses."
"He takes them off when he transforms."
"That doesn't make any sense. He wouldn't be able to see."
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Post #10 5/15/08 1:12:02PM
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Twenty20Dollars
MMA Sensei
Career record: 141-78
Season: 20-10 (#1544)
Location: KC,MO
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I like watching the show but i think it should stop after season 8. its kinda getting like american idol. the ratings are going down. i mean i dont watch idol, but i like watching TUF but idk if it can last i mean every show has to end.
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Post #11 5/15/08 1:26:37PM
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emfleek
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 97-52
Season: 23-7 (#297)
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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I'll watch TUF until the day it dies...which, hopefully, is never.
This season has been the best, so far, in regards to being drama-free. Hardly any drunken BS has been shown, which is great. That was my biggest complaint.
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Post #12 5/15/08 1:38:20PM
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Manfred
MMA Sensei
Career record: 189-113
Season: 20-10 (#176)
Location: Brasov, Romania
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I find it TUF  to complain about free MMA and seeing MMA stars (coaches) in another enviroment.
I agree it's getting old, but I still enjoy it. Since TUF 1 there has been an MMA explosion and many of the top up-an-comers have other outlets and orgs. to fight in and build themselves up. So the guys right on the verge of the UFC don't really need TUF now anyways.
I can't believe that TUF 8 isn't going to be HWs. LWs and LHWs according to the latest Sherdog report.
I think they need to take a break after TUF 8 for awhile.
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Post #13 5/15/08 1:57:52PM
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Twenty20Dollars
MMA Sensei
Career record: 141-78
Season: 20-10 (#1544)
Location: KC,MO
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Posted by emfleek
I'll watch TUF until the day it dies...which, hopefully, is never.
This season has been the best, so far, in regards to being drama-free. Hardly any drunken BS has been shown, which is great. That was my biggest complaint.
but i remember seeing the preview for the show i think it had some drunken young BS sometime soon. but im not positivie on that. like i dont want any jackass shit but i would to see like heated stuff. like jeremy vs matt brown.
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Post #14 5/15/08 2:57:59PM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 172-130
Season: 17-13 (#1544)
Location: Canada
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Posted by AchillesHeel
But does any of that make watching these fights less fun? I suppose Danzig made the TUF6 competition less exciting, because he was such a heavy favorite, but I still watched it, to see the other guys. TUF, to me, is simply the bottom tier of UFC events, Ultimate Fight Night and pay-per-view cards being the 2nd and 1st tier. I suppose they could rearrange it so that live UFN cards are more frequent, and include more unknown fighters. People would complain about that, of course, but people will complain about anything.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I generally want to see fights were both fighters' skills are showcased. So without working my way into a circular argument I guess I would say this.
I want to see guys with some skills fight. If two guys are pretty skilled and have a good base of experience in MMA, I would rather watch them fight on an actual fight card. The kind of fights I think are appropriate for TUF are ones where the guys are both inexpereinced in MMA, but have some solid skills in another aspect of fighting.
What I am seeing in TUF is that there is either parity between fighters where neither have apparant skills worthy of entering the UFC
OR
Polarity where the better fighter is that much better and really shouldn't have been on the show (IMO)
All in all I'm just complaining because I am not getting what I want. 
_______________________________________
MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 13, IPs banned - 12
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Post #15 5/15/08 3:07:33PM
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