P4P Fighter |
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mrsmiley
MMA Sensei
Career record: 120-77
Season: 58-33 (#2581)
Location:
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Posted by MMA
Posted by Pookie
and GSP i place 4rth behind bj penn, Its not his fault his division is saturated with wrestlers but regardless i still feel he hasnt faced a very diverse set of fighters like the 3 above him have.
See, I just don't understand it with BJ fans.
The dude comes off of a 1 year hiatus and losses to GSP and Matt Hughes. Drops down to 155lbs and beats Jen Pulvers (not a top 10 fighter) and Joe Stevenson (decent win, arguably top 10 fighter). Yeah, he has beat some really solid guys in the past but GSP has been beating solid guys pretty much his entire career.
Then there's always the argument about how he almost beat Hughes and he should have beat GSP. If those excuses don't work than those fights shouldn't have even count since he was fighting at a higher weight class. Seriously, there are a handful of fighters that I rank higher than BJ in both the P4P and lightweight ranking. Of course, I'll definitely rank BJ higher if he defeats Sherk.
But whatever, P4P rankings are so damn subjective. Like I do look at overall accomplishments but I definitely place more weight on recent performances than ones 3 years ago. You're as good as your last fight.
You make good points,but BJ needed to beat Pulver.It doesn't matter what his ranking was,BJ wanted the revenge.And their was a time in this sport,when Jens was considered one of the most well rounded fighters around,and if he had beaten Penn a second time,he would have all sorts of people on his bandwagon right now.Sometimes people just really forget how great a fighter is,or were his skill level is at after he loses a few.
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Post #16 5/8/08 10:14:36AM
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rabbit915
In Full Mount
Career record: 81-47
Season: 67-34 (#272)
Location: Wisconsin
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Inspite of being the resident anti-GSP nuthugger, im going to make the following statement:
I think GSP is the number 1 P4P guy in the world right now simply because of how he has dominated the division. Neither Silva or Fedor hold wins over as many guys currently ranked in the top 10. Also, GSP only has the two loses to Hughes and Serra but he came back and dominated Hughes twice and then dominated Serra. He has come back and avenged his two losses to those guys which mostly eliminates them for me.
I will also say that its incredibly tight and a decisive win by Fedor over Sylvia or a win by Silva over somebody good (not sure Okami is going to do the trick for me) could alter that.
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Post #17 5/8/08 11:32:50AM
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Buy the ticket, take the ride
Career record: 74-36
Season: 67-34 (#356)
Location: My big ass bed
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Posted by MMA
See, I just don't understand it with BJ fans.
The dude comes off of a 1 year hiatus and losses to GSP and Matt Hughes. Drops down to 155lbs and beats Jen Pulvers (not a top 10 fighter) and Joe Stevenson (decent win, arguably top 10 fighter). Yeah, he has beat some really solid guys in the past but GSP has been beating solid guys pretty much his entire career.
Then there's always the argument about how he almost beat Hughes and he should have beat GSP. If those excuses don't work than those fights shouldn't have even count since he was fighting at a higher weight class. Seriously, there are a handful of fighters that I rank higher than BJ in both the P4P and lightweight ranking. Of course, I'll definitely rank BJ higher if he defeats Sherk.
But whatever, P4P rankings are so damn subjective. Like I do look at overall accomplishments but I definitely place more weight on recent performances than ones 3 years ago. You're as good as your last fight.
 This is sense!
Anyway back on topic I would say GSP top right now with Fedor number two and Silva coming in third...
But hear my reasons before you flame me!
I always think that the P4P king would still be the champ if every fighter was the same hight and weight. Like just for example if GSP, Silva and Fedor were all 6ft and 205lb who would be the champ of that devision if you can get what I mean.
I would say it was GSP mainly because he could see the GSP Silva fight going pretty much the same way as GSP Vs Serra. Silva isn't known for his TD defense and GSP dominated a BJJ black-belt on the ground before and i doubt Silva would be able to keep the fight standing.
GSP Vs Fedor would probably be the closest of the two fight but i'd still give the advantage to GSP in this one again. Even though GSP said he is sometimes unwilling to stand i think he has better hands than Fedor and once again could use his wrestling to keep anything Fedor does underwraps.
I personally think GSP is easily the best P4P fighter alive today, but that being said, its only a mentally prepared GSP.
Last edited 5/8/08 12:27PM by SmileR
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #18 5/8/08 12:26:17PM
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I'm A Midnight Fistfight!
Career record: 71-39
Season: 67-34 (#282)
Location: In Gina Carano's Dreams
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Posted by Tailgunner
Posted by Pitbull09
GSP gets 3rd only because his two losses are decisive. Hughes destroyed him in their first fight and Serra KO'd him in the first round. I know he avenged the losses (Hughes twice), but he has to pay a bit for losing that bad when being picked for P4P.
Did you even see the first GSP vs Hughes??? Cause Hughes was getting schooled until he pulled off that arm-bar with one second left in the round!
Hughes was not destroying GSP ever in that fight.
people tend to forget what they dont want to remember
and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1
Last edited 5/8/08 1:30PM by CantAndleDaRiddum
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #19 5/8/08 1:28:14PM
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Ben_Hutch
Standup Guy
Career record: 71-48
Season: 58-43 (#1452)
Location: London
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"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "
Obviously not!
So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......
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Post #20 5/8/08 1:39:05PM
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Buy the ticket, take the ride
Career record: 74-36
Season: 67-34 (#356)
Location: My big ass bed
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Posted by Ben_Hutch
"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "
Obviously not!
So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......
Are you serious! Tim is easily top 10 and i wouldn't argue with anyone who had him in the top 5!
I think he means if he is fighting top competition and dominating them again he should be moved back up.
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After what Batman did to The Penguin, real penguins decided to move to Antartica - just in case....
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Post #21 5/8/08 1:52:19PM
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I STAB WATERBEDS
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Career record: 166-72
Season: 65-36 (#402)
Location: Issaquah
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Posted by Ben_Hutch
"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "
Obviously not!
So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......
What 10 guys do you have ahead of Sylvia?
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Post #22 5/8/08 2:21:36PM
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Jackelope
MMA Sensei
Career record: 105-68
Season: 56-33 (#1452)
Location: Maricopa, AZ
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Posted by Ben_Hutch
"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "
Obviously not!
So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......
I know you already got flamed for it twice, but here's number 3 
Big Tim not being top 10 HW... hahahaha
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Post #23 5/8/08 2:29:45PM
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fullerene
Belt Contender
Career record: 142-64
Season: 68-33 (#430)
Location:
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Good list. I can see the argument for any of those three guys being #1.
Snce p4p is even more subjective than within-weight rankings, I'm going to pick someone else, though. I'll put Kid Yamamoto as my #1. The rationale for this is:
1) I think he is easily the #1 fighter in his natural weight class (135) the #1 fighter in the weight class above him (145) and a top 10-15 fighter two weight classes above him (155). All the other candidatesmentioned can compete in only 1 or maybe 2 weight classes and nobody else has established a strong argument for being #1 in two (maybe Penn a few years ago).
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2) If we had the magic shrinking/growing ray to make everyone the same size I think he would beat anyone else in the world. He is the only guy who is simultaneously competitive (as in not getting blown away right away) wrestling with Olympic caliber wrestlers and striking with K-1 champion level fighters. I don't see that talent level anywhere else, even with the three great fighters in the original post.
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Post #24 5/8/08 2:42:44PM
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Ben_Hutch
Standup Guy
Career record: 71-48
Season: 58-43 (#1452)
Location: London
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Tim is in the top 10 p4p d*ckheads, maybe fighters to, but deff not top 5
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Post #25 5/8/08 3:25:38PM
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Jackelope
MMA Sensei
Career record: 105-68
Season: 56-33 (#1452)
Location: Maricopa, AZ
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Posted by Ben_Hutch
Tim is in the top 10 p4p d*ckheads, maybe fighters to, but deff not top 5
So your rankings are based on how many top p4p guys they've beaten? There aren't very many ranked p4p heavyweights so what the guy was saying is if Fedor beats Tim Sylvia (a top 10 HW) he will go back up on the p4p list.
If you want to break down your top 10 p4p fighters like that you probably won't get very far. It's rare that these top p4p guys fight each other (because obviously they're in different weight classes)
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Post #26 5/8/08 4:02:01PM
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Ben_Hutch
Standup Guy
Career record: 71-48
Season: 58-43 (#1452)
Location: London
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Posted by Jackelope
Posted by Ben_Hutch
Tim is in the top 10 p4p d*ckheads, maybe fighters to, but deff not top 5
So your rankings are based on how many top p4p guys they've beaten? There aren't very many ranked p4p heavyweights so what the guy was saying is if Fedor beats Tim Sylvia (a top 10 HW) he will go back up on the p4p list.
If you want to break down your top 10 p4p fighters like that you probably won't get very far. It's rare that these top p4p guys fight each other (because obviously they're in different weight classes)
I have no problem with fedor moving up the list, but the guy stated that Fedor would be the #1 P4P fighter in the world if he beat Tim, which is not true. It also depends where you rank fedor in the top 10 before the fight.
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Post #27 5/8/08 4:06:00PM
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kaskd
MMA Regular
Career record: 124-65
Season: 65-36 (#808)
Location: Hawaii
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I have to agree with the OP. My rankings are Silva, Fedor, GSP. To me P4P has to do with who you could handle, meaning the diversity of fighters that you could beat.
Silva has shown he can handle anyone regardless of who comes at him. Strikers, wrestlers, jiu jitsu guys whatever.
Fedor too. He's taken out THE best strikers, jiujitsu, and wrestlers when they were in their prime. Now inactivity (non high level competition) does play a factor and I won't argue about him dropping to third right now. He would be my #1 right now if it wasn't for his recent competition.
Now GSP has only taken on wrestlers recently. I agree it's not his fault that he's fought only wrestlers, it's just his division. (Please don't bring up Serra because he was just a flash in the pan and that's a whole different topic). I believe GSP could and will hang with some of the best strikers in mma he just hasn't yet. When he does he could jump up to #1, but unfortunately he just hasn't.
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Post #28 5/8/08 4:15:51PM
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Pookie
MMA Sensei
Career record: 151-74
Season: 65-36 (#896)
Location: 707
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Posted by Ben_Hutch
"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "
Obviously not!
So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......
top 5
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Post #29 5/8/08 4:24:49PM
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Ben_Hutch
Standup Guy
Career record: 71-48
Season: 58-43 (#1452)
Location: London
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Posted by Pookie
Posted by Ben_Hutch
"and if Fedor beats Timmay, he goes to #1 "
Obviously not!
So by beating a guy who isn't in the top 10, fedor automaticly goes to first? Right.......
top 5
Agreed.
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Post #30 5/8/08 4:46:00PM
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