shields or fitch? |
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fedorwins1
MMA Sensei
Career record: 235-112
Season: 47-23 (#333)
Location: Amish Country aka Pennsylvania
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Posted by warglory
Posted by fedorwins1
Posted by jiujitsufreak74
Posted by fedorwins1
Shields. The guy is so well rounded. He beats Jon in everything except wrestling IMO.
exactly, and it will be Fitch's slight advantage in the wrestling department that grinds out a decision for him. both f these fighters rely on wrestling and have styles that utilize their wrestling, and even if Shields has an edge standing up, if Fitch controls the majority of the fight with his wrestling then he wins it.
Fitch's wrestling didn't seem to help him very much here. He was swept two times and Shields was basically toying with him and totally outclassed him.
Shields embarasses Fitch
He didn't get embarrassed or outclassed. Shields is obviously a superior BJJ practitioner considering he is a student of Cesar Gracie, and engaging Fitch who is trained in greco roman in a grappling match obviously put Fitch at a disadvantage. Had Fitch's pedigree been in catch wrestling, this match may have been different. Still though, Fitch was able to pass into Shields' half guard twice and keep the superior BJJ guy on his back while denying submissions for quite a while. I thought Fitch performed quite well.
You must not know JJ that much. Going to half guard equals no points at all, it doesn't matter that Fitch got to half guard; Shields might have just gave him half guard. Shields gave up position to look for submissions and he pulled guard, it's not like Fitch took him down with a double leg or anything like that.
On points, Shields had a huge advantage and Fitch didn't even come close to getting a submission. Shields swept him like it was nothing and was all over Fitch, Fitch had no offense in that match at all; it was all defense.
And I think losing = outclassed.
Last edited 5/1/08 3:34PM by fedorwins1
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #16 5/1/08 3:33:24PM
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warglory
MMA Sensei
Career record: 169-115
Season: 31-27 (#2819)
Location:
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Posted by fedorwins1
Posted by warglory
Posted by fedorwins1
Posted by jiujitsufreak74
Posted by fedorwins1
Shields. The guy is so well rounded. He beats Jon in everything except wrestling IMO.
exactly, and it will be Fitch's slight advantage in the wrestling department that grinds out a decision for him. both f these fighters rely on wrestling and have styles that utilize their wrestling, and even if Shields has an edge standing up, if Fitch controls the majority of the fight with his wrestling then he wins it.
Fitch's wrestling didn't seem to help him very much here. He was swept two times and Shields was basically toying with him and totally outclassed him.
Shields embarasses Fitch
He didn't get embarrassed or outclassed. Shields is obviously a superior BJJ practitioner considering he is a student of Cesar Gracie, and engaging Fitch who is trained in greco roman in a grappling match obviously put Fitch at a disadvantage. Had Fitch's pedigree been in catch wrestling, this match may have been different. Still though, Fitch was able to pass into Shields' half guard twice and keep the superior BJJ guy on his back while denying submissions for quite a while. I thought Fitch performed quite well.
You must not know JJ that much. Going to half guard equals no points at all, it doesn't matter that Fitch got to half guard; Shields might have just gave him half guard. Shields gave up position to look for submissions and he pulled guard, it's not like Fitch took him down with a double leg or anything like that.
On points, Shields had a huge advantage and Fitch didn't even come close to getting a submission. Shields swept him like it was nothing and was all over Fitch, Fitch had no offense in that match at all; it was all defense.
And I think losing = outclassed.
So you think Bisping outclassed Hamill in their match? And no, im no BJJ expert, but I can tell when a guy can hold his own. That match was Shields' from the get go. Throw striking and a cage into the mix though, and things dramatically change.
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Post #17 5/1/08 8:48:15PM
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fedorwins1
MMA Sensei
Career record: 235-112
Season: 47-23 (#333)
Location: Amish Country aka Pennsylvania
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Posted by warglory
Posted by fedorwins1
Posted by warglory
Posted by fedorwins1
Posted by jiujitsufreak74
Posted by fedorwins1
Shields. The guy is so well rounded. He beats Jon in everything except wrestling IMO.
exactly, and it will be Fitch's slight advantage in the wrestling department that grinds out a decision for him. both f these fighters rely on wrestling and have styles that utilize their wrestling, and even if Shields has an edge standing up, if Fitch controls the majority of the fight with his wrestling then he wins it.
Fitch's wrestling didn't seem to help him very much here. He was swept two times and Shields was basically toying with him and totally outclassed him.
Shields embarasses Fitch
He didn't get embarrassed or outclassed. Shields is obviously a superior BJJ practitioner considering he is a student of Cesar Gracie, and engaging Fitch who is trained in greco roman in a grappling match obviously put Fitch at a disadvantage. Had Fitch's pedigree been in catch wrestling, this match may have been different. Still though, Fitch was able to pass into Shields' half guard twice and keep the superior BJJ guy on his back while denying submissions for quite a while. I thought Fitch performed quite well.
You must not know JJ that much. Going to half guard equals no points at all, it doesn't matter that Fitch got to half guard; Shields might have just gave him half guard. Shields gave up position to look for submissions and he pulled guard, it's not like Fitch took him down with a double leg or anything like that.
On points, Shields had a huge advantage and Fitch didn't even come close to getting a submission. Shields swept him like it was nothing and was all over Fitch, Fitch had no offense in that match at all; it was all defense.
And I think losing = outclassed.
So you think Bisping outclassed Hamill in their match? And no, im no BJJ expert, but I can tell when a guy can hold his own. That match was Shields' from the get go. Throw striking and a cage into the mix though, and things dramatically change.
You're example about Bisping and Hamill is a bad one. That was a horrible/bias decision, every once in a while that happens. The match between Fitch and Shields didn't go to decision anyway, so what is your point?
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Post #18 5/3/08 2:56:02PM
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NatedawgThaM
MMA Sensei
Career record: 150-91
Season: 44-24 (#1353)
Location: New Providence, Pa
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This would look VERY similar to Jon Fitch/Diego Sanchez. On the ground Fitch will win by just keeping Shields on his back and Fitch has nice submission defense as he got out of a lot of very tight submissions against Diego.
The only difference is Shields would come out on top. Shields is bigger then Diego so Fitch wouldn't have as much of an easy time keeping him on his back and Shields is better with submissions then Diego even though Shields won't sub him IMO. Also Diego charged at Fitch looking to take it to the ground. Shields knows he has the better stand up so he'll keep it standing. It will be a very close fight though. VERY SICK CLOSE FIGHT!!!
Jake Shields by Split Decision.
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Post #19 5/3/08 4:28:43PM
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cagefighter30
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 11-8
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Lebanon,VA
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Jon Fitch by a land slide!!!!!
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Post #20 5/4/08 10:35:07AM
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mrliquid
Standup Guy
Career record: 135-98
Season: 38-31 (#3492)
Location: new port richey florida
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Shields isn't a finisher he has alot of decision wins Fitch would KO him in the 3rd or win by UD he is a better striker by far
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Post #21 5/5/08 7:21:04PM
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bls1919
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 155-90
Season: 48-19 (#352)
Location: Clarendon, PENNSYLVANNIA
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This is almost too close to call. I will have to go withg Fitch, i think he might be a bit stronger and can take a good shot
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Post #22 5/5/08 8:59:07PM
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EON
Banned
Career record: 55-29
Season: 20-12 (#4820)
Location: Amsterdam
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Shields, only because he beat Fitch pretty bad in ADCC (I think) but I doubt theyll ever fight since there tied tightly to different orgs.
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Post #23 5/6/08 6:02:09AM
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tylerlee123
Standup Guy
Career record: 118-61
Season: 38-22 (#2457)
Location: New Brunswick
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Definately Fitch, He is the man I remember the first time I seen him fight it was against Joslin at Freedom Fight Canada vs USA, he didn't impress me much and he called a time out in the middle of the fight so i did't really like him at the time, little did i know that he would be the top contender in the welterweight divsion 4 or 5 years later. So ya Fitch will Win
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Post #24 5/7/08 8:42:09PM
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Pookie
Heavyweight Champ
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Career record: 203-92
Season: 52-18 (#56)
Location: 707
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Sheilds' style is perfectly set-up to combat wrestlers IMO.
He may not have the best takedowns but once it gets to the ground(and against fitch, it most certainly would hit the ground) he'll reverse, sweep, and get on top of fitch.
Sheilds by UD.
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Post #25 5/7/08 9:00:30PM
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I STAB WATERBEDS
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Career record: 218-90
Season: 52-18 (#69)
Location: Issaquah
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Shields by Unanimous Decision.
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Post #26 5/8/08 1:05:13PM
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warglory
MMA Sensei
Career record: 169-115
Season: 31-27 (#2819)
Location:
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Posted by fedorwins1
Posted by warglory
Posted by fedorwins1
Posted by warglory
Posted by fedorwins1
Posted by jiujitsufreak74
Posted by fedorwins1
Shields. The guy is so well rounded. He beats Jon in everything except wrestling IMO.
exactly, and it will be Fitch's slight advantage in the wrestling department that grinds out a decision for him. both f these fighters rely on wrestling and have styles that utilize their wrestling, and even if Shields has an edge standing up, if Fitch controls the majority of the fight with his wrestling then he wins it.
Fitch's wrestling didn't seem to help him very much here. He was swept two times and Shields was basically toying with him and totally outclassed him.
Shields embarasses Fitch
He didn't get embarrassed or outclassed. Shields is obviously a superior BJJ practitioner considering he is a student of Cesar Gracie, and engaging Fitch who is trained in greco roman in a grappling match obviously put Fitch at a disadvantage. Had Fitch's pedigree been in catch wrestling, this match may have been different. Still though, Fitch was able to pass into Shields' half guard twice and keep the superior BJJ guy on his back while denying submissions for quite a while. I thought Fitch performed quite well.
You must not know JJ that much. Going to half guard equals no points at all, it doesn't matter that Fitch got to half guard; Shields might have just gave him half guard. Shields gave up position to look for submissions and he pulled guard, it's not like Fitch took him down with a double leg or anything like that.
On points, Shields had a huge advantage and Fitch didn't even come close to getting a submission. Shields swept him like it was nothing and was all over Fitch, Fitch had no offense in that match at all; it was all defense.
And I think losing = outclassed.
So you think Bisping outclassed Hamill in their match? And no, im no BJJ expert, but I can tell when a guy can hold his own. That match was Shields' from the get go. Throw striking and a cage into the mix though, and things dramatically change.
You're example about Bisping and Hamill is a bad one. That was a horrible/bias decision, every once in a while that happens. The match between Fitch and Shields didn't go to decision anyway, so what is your point?
You said losing equates to being outclassed. My point is that there are many matches, even ones that are less controversial than Bisping and Hamill, that are very close that could have gone either way. Outclassed is exactly what the word means, and that doesn't equate to every fight.
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Post #27 5/8/08 8:33:55PM
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warglory
MMA Sensei
Career record: 169-115
Season: 31-27 (#2819)
Location:
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Posted by Pookie
Sheilds' style is perfectly set-up to combat wrestlers IMO.
He may not have the best takedowns but once it gets to the ground(and against fitch, it most certainly would hit the ground) he'll reverse, sweep, and get on top of fitch.
Sheilds by UD.
And what makes you think he could hold Fitch down? Fitch isn't one to just lay there and allow his opponents to have his way with him.
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Post #28 5/8/08 8:35:03PM
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Pookie
Heavyweight Champ
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Career record: 203-92
Season: 52-18 (#56)
Location: 707
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the fact that hes not nearly as strong off of his back as he is on top, and if he over commits himself trying to get up i could see him getting caught in a sub.
His only chance IMO would be to keep it standing but still i dont think hes all that great on his feet.
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Post #29 5/8/08 8:40:18PM
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pimpcane_69
Banned
Career record: 1-1
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: The Brothel
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Fitch all the way, me and my hows have a saying"Fitch is no bitch"
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Post #30 5/8/08 10:02:51PM
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