Sherk not even top ten... |
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Respect the Battle Axe
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Career record: 191-146
Season: 43-27 (#607)
Location: Missouri
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I found this on another website and thought it was an interesting read
I couldn’t help respond to a comment inquiring as to whether Sean Sherk’s omission from my top-ten lightweight rankings was intentional. And of course my decision to keep Sherk out was intentional. The question I have is when was the last time Sherk recorded a valid victory at lightweight?
Operative word: valid.
Sorry, but Sherk’s victory over Hermes Franca at UFC 73 this past July is not valid. If a fighter is suspended for testing positive for performance enhancers follow a victory, how can you still consider it a legitimate win? It doesn’t matter to me that Franca also tested positive because steroids are a banned substance and fighters are prohibited from using them.
If you go to Sherdog’s fight finder, you will see that Sherk’s victory is official. However, that’s only because by law the California State Athletic Commission does not have the authority to overturn a decision. Granted, Franca tested positive too so the decision shouldn’t be reversed, but if Sherk had tested positive in Nevada, his win would have been declared a no contest.
I really have no idea whether Sherk has ever used steroids. But you cannot argue the fact that he failed CSAC’s test for performance enhancers and that his appeal was denied. While Sherk’s suspension was reduced by CSAC from 12 months to six, he is still considered guilty. Until Sherk is successful in clearing his name, I just don’t see how anyone can look at the Franca victory and consider it legitimate.
So in my mind, the win over Franca is not really a win, which means that Sherk’s last victory at 155 lbs. was on October 14, 2006 at UFC 64 against Kenny Florian. I mean, it’s 2008 and his last win was in 2006! As such, it wasn’t even a toss up when deciding not to rank Sherk in my lightweight top ten. Let him register a valid victory for the first time in 18 months before making a claim that he’s one of the best lightweight fighters in the world.
If Sherk beats B.J. Penn in May, he’ll be top-ten worthy. And if he doesn’t, he’ll be stuck on the outside looking in.
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What was really needed was a fundamental change in our attitude toward life.We had to learn ourselves and, furthermore, we had to teach the despairing men, that it did not really matter what we expected of life, but rather what life expected from us. - Viktor Frankl
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Post #1 4/27/08 11:36:54AM
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ThE ThIcKFrEAkNeSs
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Career record: 211-121
Season: 41-29 (#1925)
Location: Paducah,KY
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Well in that case lets take a look at BJ Penn. He has only had to LW wins since 2004. He beat Stevenson and Pulver. Does that constitute him being top 10. There are arguments for both guys but you have to remember the UFC brought this division back and therefore had to crown a champion and bring in people to fight him. Sherk is a seasoned veteran who has stepped in with many great fighters. Is he number 1, 2, or 3. I personnally dont think so but if he beats Penn (which you are lying to yourself if you think he can't) then he is definately cemented as the top guy in the LW division. I want Penn to win but he is gonna get put on his back early. I just hope he can cope with Sherks power and control.
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Post #2 4/27/08 12:14:41PM
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NinjaCyborg
MMA Regular
Career record: 65-57
Season: 36-34 (#2608)
Location: Michigan
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that Sean Sherk is going to prison rape BJ Penn.
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Post #3 4/27/08 2:12:21PM
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nickcuc547
MMA Sensei
Career record: 219-128
Season: 45-25 (#813)
Location:
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i think sherk would beat any lightweight in the world including bj. bj, however, is the only lightweight that can beat sherk, and im not just talking ufc, im talking the entire lightweight division including gomi, sakurai, jz and aoki. sherk's career and title reign have earned him a top 10 ranking.
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Post #4 4/27/08 2:49:31PM
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GREENMAN!!!!
Career record: 134-73
Season: 50-20 (#178)
Location: selden, new york
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i keep Sherk out because of his steroid conviction. after he fights BJ i will rank him accordingly to how well he does in the fight.
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Post #5 4/27/08 2:55:47PM
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GSPCanada
MMA Regular
Career record: 77-42
Season: 48-20 (#347)
Location:
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Whether he knew he had taken roids or not is the real argument, but regardless it was found in his system, therefore we cannot deny he had the advantage of steroids against Hermes. In my opinion neither one of these guys has fought any one recently that should cement them as #1 Ken Flo, Hermes, Stevenson are great fighters but I don't consider them top 5 in overall lightweight ranks, I actually think Pulver is not the same guy anymore but we have to make the argument that he was the former champ. The inly guys Bj and Sherk could fight to cement themselves as #1 are Sherk and BJ
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Post #6 4/27/08 3:32:37PM
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WarWagon Never Die!
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Career record: 173-125
Season: 34-36 (#3376)
Location: talkin trash to the garbage around me
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Posted by nickcuc547
i think sherk would beat any lightweight in the world including bj. bj, however, is the only lightweight that can beat sherk, and im not just talking ufc, im talking the entire lightweight division including gomi, sakurai, jz and aoki. sherk's career and title reign have earned him a top 10 ranking.
Title reign? what title reign? He dec'd Florian to win it, in his first def he tested pos for roids and had a 6 mo suspension and it'll be just about a yr by the time he gets in to fight BJ who's had two impressive wins since then.
I think worldwide Sherk falls into the middle of the div. In UFC Penn will destroy him and then he falls somewhere near the top, not sure where yet. imo
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There can be ONLY 1 WarWagon
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Post #7 4/27/08 4:03:05PM
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ICSlegend
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-20
Season: 0-1 (#9125)
Location:
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Posted by nickcuc547
i think sherk would beat any lightweight in the world including bj. bj, however, is the only lightweight that can beat sherk, and im not just talking ufc, im talking the entire lightweight division including gomi, sakurai, jz and aoki. sherk's career and title reign have earned him a top 10 ranking.
You've been living in a dream world...
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Post #8 4/27/08 4:07:32PM
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EON
Banned
Career record: 55-29
Season: 20-12 (#4820)
Location: Amsterdam
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I've never had him in the top 10, even though he could probably beat the bottom 5 in the top 10 I can't put him in that group for how boring it is to watch him fight and how callous it is to cheat, lie about it and steal the belt away from deserving lightweights when he had the belt. BJ is going to get a technical submission because Sherk wont tap due to ego.
WAR SKILL
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Post #9 4/27/08 5:25:52PM
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xchickox
In Full Mount
Career record: 220-127
Season: 46-24 (#1331)
Location: Stoke-On-Trent
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i've got sherk at number 1 in my top ten because i think he dominated both florian and franca, both top 10/15 fighters (and i still believe sherk is innocent) and i also think he could beat anyone at LW including BJ
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Post #10 4/27/08 6:45:50PM
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playground samauri
Career record: 220-127
Season: 48-22 (#185)
Location: NW Ohio - 419
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Posted by ICSlegend
Posted by nickcuc547
i think sherk would beat any lightweight in the world including bj. bj, however, is the only lightweight that can beat sherk, and im not just talking ufc, im talking the entire lightweight division including gomi, sakurai, jz and aoki. sherk's career and title reign have earned him a top 10 ranking.
You've been living in a dream world...
We could say the same thing about your personal LHW, MW, and WW rankings.
I'm not definate that he could, but I agree that Sherk has the POTENTIAL to defeat ANY LW in the world. I'd choose him over anybody besides Penn at this point. Just my opinion, and I don't even like the guy.
Last edited 4/27/08 6:58PM by gspfan
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #11 4/27/08 6:57:03PM
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Pitbull09
MMA Sensei
Career record: 134-69
Season: 43-23 (#1565)
Location: PA
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I think why people rank him so high is because of his success in WW then in lightweight. Whether its on fight or not, he was crowned champion. His ranking will eventually level out in the next 5 fights so its nothing to worry over
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Post #12 4/27/08 10:03:53PM
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tepid55
In Full Mount
Career record: 215-123
Season: 43-27 (#1095)
Location: Texas
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In my opinion, Sherk is still a top ten lightweight.
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Post #13 4/27/08 11:45:29PM
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ICSlegend
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-20
Season: 0-1 (#9125)
Location:
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Posted by gspfan
We could say the same thing about your personal LHW, MW, and WW rankings.
I'm not definate that he could, but I agree that Sherk has the POTENTIAL to defeat ANY LW in the world. I'd choose him over anybody besides Penn at this point. Just my opinion, and I don't even like the guy.
What's wrong with my rankings? I don't rank guys who have done nothing like Hamill and Florian (#3 on your top LWs  ), unlike you. And you don't even know enough MMA fighters to round out top 10s.
And for the record, I do have Sherk in top 10, just for sheer domination (even if it was mostly cans).
You just proved my point with your statement - Sherk has the "POTENTIAL" to defeat ANY LW in the world. Just like any LW in the world has the "POTENTIAL" to defeat Sherk. Any elite fighter has a chance to beat any other elite fighter. Anyone making blanket statements like nickcuc547, about NO TOP LWs having the ability to beat Sherk is living in a dream world.
And in my opinion your opinion is uninformed. What top 10 guys has Sherk put away? Everytime he gets pitted against an elite guy (which isn't often) he loses. He couldn't even finish Florian or Franca!
Last edited 4/28/08 12:36AM by icslegend
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #14 4/28/08 12:34:04AM
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playground samauri
Career record: 220-127
Season: 48-22 (#185)
Location: NW Ohio - 419
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Posted by ICSlegend
Posted by gspfan
We could say the same thing about your personal LHW, MW, and WW rankings.
I'm not definate that he could, but I agree that Sherk has the POTENTIAL to defeat ANY LW in the world. I'd choose him over anybody besides Penn at this point. Just my opinion, and I don't even like the guy.
What's wrong with my rankings? I don't rank guys who have done nothing like Hamill and Florian (#3 on your top LWs ), unlike you. And you don't even know enough MMA fighters to round out top 10s.
And for the record, I do have Sherk in top 10, just for sheer domination (even if it was mostly cans).
You just proved my point with your statement - Sherk has the "POTENTIONAL" to defeat ANY LW in the world. Just like any LW in the world has the "POTENTIAL" to defeat Sherk. Any elite fighter has a chance to beat any other elite fighter. Anyone making blanket statements like nickcuc547, about NO TOP LWs having the ability to beat Sherk is living in a dream world.
And in my opinion your opinion is uninformed. What top 10 guys has Sherk put away? Everytime he gets pitted against an elite guy (which isn't often) he loses. He couldn't even finish Florian or Franca!
Ah, I really don't want to take it any further and have this progress. I'll just be more direct. It is my opinion, that at this point Sean Sherk could defeat any current ranked LW, besides BJ Penn. I could be wrong. That was my whole point of saying "POTENTIAL". Because nothing is garunteed, especially in MMA. Main point being, you don't have to be living in a dream world to think Sherk is that good.
About not being able to finish, that means nothing in our conversation. It's about winning and losing, period.
As far as me not knowing enough fighters to round out my top 10...???????
 Just because I don't finish my personal rankings doesn't mean I don't know enough fighters. I just think it's virtually a rat race for the remaining spots for a group of fighters basically in the same position. And yea, I have Hamill at #10 in the LHW division. I think he's a sleeper. But c'mon. You got Wanderlei at #2 with Chuck nowhere in sight. Nakamura at #9. Saku at #2 at MW. Anderson Silva at #3. Frank Trigg at #7 at WW. So even if I don't know enough fighters, like you claim. I know at least enough to know that, those are some rediculous rankings buddy.
Last edited 4/28/08 1:34AM by gspfan
Edit note/reason: corrections
3 total post edits
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and if you don't know, now ya know......
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Post #15 4/28/08 1:15:49AM
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