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Cung Le -- Still Doubtful

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ncordless

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Posted by Rush

As for Le's striking, well, after watching the fight I have to agree that his strikes did not have much power. My hunch is that his striking will be much less effective given a match with more takedowns.

I agree with the assessment that Frank lost this fight because of the way he fought not so much the was Le fought. Frank did not have a lot of movement, which caused him to absorb a lot of hits. Even if the hits were not power hits, they do take a toll.

That being said, I would like to see Cung fight a more dynamic striker and/or someone that will test his ground game. Frank did neither of that and did not succeed in changing my opinion about Cung.



I've heard mention of Kazuo Misaki as the next opponent for Cung Le. IMO he would be a very strong test for Cung's striking. I'd lean towards Misaki in that one.

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Post #16   3/30/08 3:45:01PM   

Rush

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Posted by ncordless


Posted by Rush

As for Le's striking, well, after watching the fight I have to agree that his strikes did not have much power. My hunch is that his striking will be much less effective given a match with more takedowns.

I agree with the assessment that Frank lost this fight because of the way he fought not so much the was Le fought. Frank did not have a lot of movement, which caused him to absorb a lot of hits. Even if the hits were not power hits, they do take a toll.

That being said, I would like to see Cung fight a more dynamic striker and/or someone that will test his ground game. Frank did neither of that and did not succeed in changing my opinion about Cung.



I've heard mention of Kazuo Misaki as the next opponent for Cung Le. IMO he would be a very strong test for Cung's striking. I'd lean towards Misaki in that one.




I think Misaki would be a fair test for Cung. Hopefully you are right.

Post #17   3/30/08 5:15:50PM   

Mastodon2

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Well, he certainly didn't impress me. I know a lot of guys are riding the anti-cung bandwagon, but having trained in Thai boxing, and being a striking fanatic, Cung's weak, out of context kicks just didn't wow me. He was just throwing kicks for kicks sake, hardly any of them were really landing clean and hard. Watch masters like Aerts and Le Banner at work, and you'll see how they barely waste a strike.

Cung on the other hand was just throwing them out willy-nilly. He doesnt seem arrogant, so the obvious show off factor of spinning back kicks and what not is perhaps not if. Maybe in his San Shou past he could get away with it, but he doesnt seem as versed as say, Badr Hari with such techniques. As soon as someone starts really aggressively trying to put him on the ground and keep him there, his fancy, yet somewhat sloppy and weak kicking game won't be much use!

Post #18   3/30/08 5:49:32PM   

Rush

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Posted by Mastodon2

As soon as someone starts really aggressively trying to put him on the ground and keep him there, his fancy, yet somewhat sloppy and weak kicking game won't be much use!



I totally agree and we even saw that in the Shamrock fight. The two times Frank decided to engage (end of first and third rounds) Cung was in trouble.

I'm not anti-Cung Le myself, but you know it takes more than one "big" win for me to jump on the wagon. Let's just say that I haven't bought into the Cung Le hype

Post #19   3/30/08 7:47:57PM   

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I agree with cordless, people that say Le does not have skill and does not deserve to be one of the top fihgter in this division do not know what they are talking about.....look at Chuck Lidell, his stand up skills is not as good as Le but he is the top fighter and the former champ in his weight class....Chuck is the the top fighter b/c he is an intelligent and smart fighter....he knows how to avoid the take down (because that is his weakness) and knock out people that try to take him to the ground .How many fighters can take chuck down and finish him? ..what I am saying is Le can do the same as Chuck, avoid the take down and use yours kicks and punches to keep them away....He is 6-0 and no one has taken him down and ground and pound him yet.....

Frank did try to take Le down...he did try and did not succeed.....we don't know how's Le ground game is.......but beware just stop and think for a second....if Le ground game is just decent. who can match up with him?

Post #20   3/30/08 8:48:47PM   

warglory

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Posted by ricardo

I agree with cordless, people that say Le does not have skill and does not deserve to be one of the top fihgter in this division do not know what they are talking about.....look at Chuck Lidell, his stand up skills is not as good as Le but he is the top fighter and the former champ in his weight class....Chuck is the the top fighter b/c he is an intelligent and smart fighter....he knows how to avoid the take down (because that is his weakness) and knock out people that try to take him to the ground .How many fighters can take chuck down and finish him? ..what I am saying is Le can do the same as Chuck, avoid the take down and use yours kicks and punches to keep them away....He is 6-0 and no one has taken him down and ground and pound him yet.....

Frank did try to take Le down...he did try and did not succeed.....we don't know how's Le ground game is.......but beware just stop and think for a second....if Le ground game is just decent. who can match up with him?




Chuck is an effective fighter because he is a defensive striker with BIG power, and in his heyday, the dominant fighters were wrestlers and BJJ artists, so they would often get caught by him trying to go for a clinch or a takedown. Chuck also has an incredible ability to simply stand up when he is taken down, absorbing punishment on the way up. Chuck is a brawler who has adopted MMA very very well in his career. Cung on the other hand is a traditional martial artist who has attempted to adopt his style. So far, he has had success and this can be attributed to his quick feet and range finding skills. However, he has faced c level fighters and one a level fighter with a horrible gameplan. No one has seen Cung under pressure (except for a few moments in the Shamrock fight) yet, so comparing him to Chuck is a bit premature.

Post #21   3/30/08 9:37:53PM   

warglory

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Also, everyone saying that Cung is green and Shamrock is over the hill for a fighter, keep in mind that both fighters are the exact same age of 37. So can we realistically expect Cung to really improve his power and ability before he physically can't handle it anymore? Randy is an aberration, so please no comparisons.

Post #22   3/30/08 9:40:20PM   

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Posted by warglory

Also, everyone saying that Cung is green and Shamrock is over the hill for a fighter, keep in mind that both fighters are the exact same age of 37. So can we realistically expect Cung to really improve his power and ability before he physically can't handle it anymore? Randy is an aberration, so please no comparisons.




They are both 35 years old.

Post #23   3/30/08 11:04:33PM   

warglory

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Posted by Rush


Posted by warglory

Also, everyone saying that Cung is green and Shamrock is over the hill for a fighter, keep in mind that both fighters are the exact same age of 37. So can we realistically expect Cung to really improve his power and ability before he physically can't handle it anymore? Randy is an aberration, so please no comparisons.




They are both 35 years old.



Oh, my bad, I thought they were 37 for some reason. I stand corrected.

Post #24   3/31/08 10:29:16PM   

ButterBalls

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I love how before the fight happened people were saying that Frank was going to kill Cung, how he wasn't even in the same class as Frank etc etc, and now people are saying Frank is over the hill (even though he is the same age as Cung.)

I personally like Cung and I think he's the real deal. Just because he didn't knock Frank out doesn't mean shit to me...I mean, lets be honest here...how many people HAVE knocked Frank out? He broke his damn arm kicking him, and not many people can say they have done that. Obviously his showy, no power kicks were doing SOMETHING.

I watch Cung and what I see is an unpredictable fighter who uses a good variety of kicks and punches to effectively keep his opponent off balance. He isn't ever going to amass a Crocop-like highlight real, but that too is fine with me. He's fast, he's agile, and he is good at evading punches (for the most part). He kept Frank at bay, and Frank isn't a bum, despite what some of you are NOW saying.

Post #25   3/31/08 11:39:28PM   
 
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