Pick'em Leagues: THE BIG SHOW CASUAL BEST OF THE REST Single Event PvP: FANTASY POOLS Betting Leagues: THE BIG SHOW BEST OF THE REST

Vitor's future, your thoughts

Print  
  Page 1 of 2     1     2  
Posted By Message

DoTheMMAth

MMA Sensei

DoTheMMAth Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,564
Career:1,441-893
Joined:Dec 2006
Chips:
356
Ok... we most likely all know the story of Vitor Belfort... "Vitor of Old", he's lost 5 of his last 7 fights... yada yada... but Vitor is only 29 years old. Does anyone with an inside track think that he still has a shot at becoming "a force to be reckoned with" again? I mean... look at the age on Chuckwagon, and even Randy coming back, Vitor has time still, but from what you've seen of him, do you think that he has the inner fortitude to make an impact again before he's done?

_______________________________________

Post #1   2/19/07 11:03:40PM   

ac_gi

Standup Guy

ac_gi Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:479
Career:1,688-1,022
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Pride FC Forever
Chips:
35
Belfort has 22 fights, Randy has 22 and Chuck has 23.

I think that Belfort is old for his age, and will never be a force again. 5 of his last 7 fights have gone down as a loss.

Post #2   2/19/07 11:30:42PM   

DoTheMMAth

MMA Sensei

DoTheMMAth Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,564
Career:1,441-893
Joined:Dec 2006
Chips:
356
True, but I don't know if you can use # of fights as a real measuring stick. Take Jeremy Horn for example, I would still consider him a threat to most fighters in his weight class and he's had (from what I can recall without looking) over 90 fights on record and is still going. Granted, he may never be a belt holder in Pride or UFC again at this point, but he has been good for a long time and Vitor is so young... maybe I'm just an optimist and a "Vitor of Old" nuthugger, but I'd just like to see him step his game up to the current field of play and make an impact again before he's not physicall capable anymore

_______________________________________

Post #3   2/19/07 11:49:19PM   

Svartorm

Hammer of the Gods

Svartorm Avatar
9
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:4,166
Career:2,077-1,253
Joined:Jan 2007
Chips:
854
It doesn't matter how old or young a fighter is if they're not there mentally, which Vitor isn't anymore. Hes even said in interviews that hes fighting at about 10% nowadays and doesn't have the fire anymore.

_______________________________________
All brave men with hearts of war, ride the path of mighty Thor.

DREAM 1 - 2nd in Pts
Cage Rage 23 - 6th in Pts
Secondary League Season 3 - 12th in Pts
Secondary League Season 7 - 16th in Wagers
Primary League Season 7 - 26th in Wagers
Secondary League Season 6 - 30th in Pts
Secondary League Season 1 - 31st in Pts
Primary League Season 6 - 39th in Wagers
Secondary League Season 7 - 41st in Pts

Post #4   2/20/07 12:04:45AM   

OB_Juan

MMA Regular

OB_Juan Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:227
Career:481-329
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Bloodyknux.com
Chips:
19
Vitor could still probably hang w/ any of the current top LHWs but probably not beat them and if he did win he'd likely lose a rematch.

IMO he hasn't been the same since he broke his hand on Sak's skull. That seemed to have killed his psyche. He's been an inconsistent headcase ever since and scared to let his hands go like he used to.

He's a case of peaking too early. His pinnacle (Wand) was immediately followed by his downturn (Saku) IMO.

Post #5   2/20/07 12:10:36AM   

hippysmacker

Boondock Saints Mod

hippysmacker Avatar
6





 
 
 


 
 
Posts:5,235
Career:1,946-1,103
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Nutthuggers Suck
Chips:
611
I think If any top 15 fighter survives the first round against Vitor ( maybe just the first 2 minutes) he's basically done these days. To me he hasn't been the same since his sister's kinapping. The Saku fight could have been the beginning , but I think that personal tragedy changed him. He's supposed to rematching Eastman in Cage rage soon. After the huge cut Beastman got the first time, I'm surprised this isn't called a mismatch. Hopefully we'll see a flash of the phenom and a quick KO. He's supposedly training with the new brazilian superteam Black House( Casa Preta) that is an affilition of guys from BTT,Muay thai dream team, and Nova Uniao.Maybe they will give us a new improved Vitor. I hope so, he was one of the most exciting, explosive fighter's at his best.

_______________________________________
“Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie ,cheat ,or steal.for selfish gain. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.”
The Iron Code

Post #6   2/20/07 2:31:33AM   

aceprone

Standup Guy

aceprone Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:325
Career:1,037-635
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Slackers
Chips:
42
I hope his new training camp helps him out on his mental game. He should of destroyed Henderson. He is so much stronger and faster then him. I've watched the fight with him and Overeem and I think he lost that fight. He did good for the first couple minutes and then just faded away. Regardless if he claimed injury or not, he just seemed like his natural progression in his fights. I he does dominate the first couple minutes then it is down hill from there. But I always have hope for him and will always be cheering for him.

Post #7   2/20/07 2:41:16AM   

OB_Juan

MMA Regular

OB_Juan Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:227
Career:481-329
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Bloodyknux.com
Chips:
19
I used to cheer for Vitor, but then I got tired of disappointment. Call me fickle.

Post #8   2/20/07 2:58:45AM   

waylon_o

In Full Mount

waylon_o Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:670
Career:162-90
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Wicked Wizards
Chips:
35
I don't like any cheaters...and he most definitely is a cheater. The last thing mma needs are a bunch of douche-bags testing positive for steroids and giving all of the haters that much more fuel to use against us. And by the way, what's the story on his sister getting kidnapped?

Post #9   2/20/07 8:06:11AM   

JunCTion

READY TO SMILE AND LOVE LIFE!!

JunCTion Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:807
Career:543-390
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Camp David
Chips:
27

Posted by DoTheMMAth

True, but I don't know if you can use # of fights as a real measuring stick. Take Jeremy Horn for example, I would still consider him a threat to most fighters in his weight class and he's had (from what I can recall without looking) over 90 fights on record and is still going. Granted, he may never be a belt holder in Pride or UFC again at this point, but he has been good for a long time and Vitor is so young... maybe I'm just an optimist and a "Vitor of Old" nuthugger, but I'd just like to see him step his game up to the current field of play and make an impact again before he's not physicall capable anymore




if there was a way he could right himselt mentally and make the most of his new training affiliation and get in his top physical and mental shape i think he could make an impact. i think he could take rashad and keith and his tito fight was a close one. vitor. you're still young. make a run in the LHW div. motivate yourself. do it for your sister


Posted by aceprone

He should of destroyed Henderson. He is so much stronger and faster then him. I've watched the fight with him and Overeem and I think he lost that fight. He did good for the first couple minutes and then just faded away. If he does dominate the first couple minutes then it is down hill from there. But I always have hope for him and will always be cheering for him.



i agree recent losses hurt, but henderson decision, overeem decision, tito split, randy doctor, chuck decision, all judges /doctor decisions. overeem is the only one to submit him, randys the only won to tko him (1 strikes/1 doctor,cut)
all his wins since chuck are by ko/tko

if he can dominate early he has the tools to stop anybody in the first round, but he would definately have to billed up his cardio cause he cant winn decisions anymore.

give him a shot dana, (whats his pride contract)

Post #10   2/20/07 11:10:45AM   

OB_Juan

MMA Regular

OB_Juan Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:227
Career:481-329
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Bloodyknux.com
Chips:
19
No, Dana, please do NOT give him a shot. If he signed a 3 fight contract they'd be lucky to get 1 decent performance out of him.

How about we look at Vitor's entire career. His first 4 fights a roided up Vitor KO's bigger, mostly out of shape fighters w/ relatively low skill levels. Then Randy puts him in his place. Then another win for Vitor vs Charles (woohoo). Next, the pinnacle of his career. A 21 yr old Vitor KOs a 22 yr old Wanderlei (who was a fraction of the fighter then that he is now). A 6-1 Vitor moves to Pride.

That's when he takes his down turn IMO. He breaks his hand on Sak's head and suddenly he's scared to throw punches like he used to. The remainder of his stint in Pride consists primarily of LnP decisions (including a BS dec over Herring).

So (at 10-2 on paper) he comes back to the UFC and loses a decision to Chuck. I think that was the very last fight that I actually rooted for Vitor personally.

A year later he gets a nice cut stoppage over Eastman. Enter the Old Vitor, "We back mama! We back!". Could it be so? Apparently the nuthuggers thought so because in his next fight he manages to cut Randy w/ a punch that didn't even connect. "The new LHW champ! War Old Vitor!!!"

Then of course Randy teaches him a lesson in their rubbermatch. Nuthuggers cry "headbutt" but ignore the fact that the accidental cut from the butting of heads was not even the same cut that stopped the fight. Rather, it was one of the several other cuts he received from dozens of unanswered elbows. But yeah, you can call that a just doctor's stoppage (kind of like his win over Eastman, right) even though he was totally outclassed the entire fight save for some eye gouging he did on Randy.

Next is Tito. While Belfort fans claim that he was robbed, he really did very little but clip Tito's nose in rd 1 and hold him down for most of rd 2 while Tito was actually the busier striker from his back in that round. Vitor's little flurry that was completely blocked by Tito apparently gassed him out and Vitor offered nothing the rest of the fight. Round 3 Vitor ends up on his back as soon as BJM makes him let go fo the fence and that's it. Vitor didn't even initiate any of the stand up exchanges the entire fight. Even though he should have had the advantage standing he only counter punches.

Over his next 5 fights he KOs a couple C level fighters, gets choked out, and loses 2 decisions to other fighters w/ questionable gas tanks themselves and in both cases where he SHOULD have been the favorite. There you have it, the carreer of "The Phenom" in a nutshell. Hmmm... when you really look at it it's not quite as impressive as it is on paper.

Vitor is quite easily the biggest waste of potential in the history of MMA. He had so many tools and natural abilities yet he's proven to be a mental midget (Tito's words, not mine). Haters say he lacks heart but i'm not sure if I totally agree. Sure, he apparently gives up when a fight isn't going his way but he sticks it out even if it means taking a beating until the final bell. I do respect that, however I do not respect dirty fighting. Meh...

Post #11   2/20/07 2:38:13PM   

madmarck

MMA Sensei

madmarck Avatar
2

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:2,910
Career:802-575
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Canadian Fight Club
Chips:
138
What is with MMA ages. If a fighter is under 30 it is said oh he is onyll 29. If a fighters is 33+ he is considered old.
So is it at age 30-33 that fighters are no longer considered young?

I think anyone under 40 is still young. Even someone beyond that age can still compete and be the best in the world. Like Randy Couture (not Ken Shamrock).

I think Vitor is just one fo those guys like Frank Shamrock. Back in the day they dominated other fighters just becasue of their well roundness and overall atheletic ability. We are always seeing the old Vitor and Frank. They have never changed other athletes have just managed to see what they were doing and follow the same pattern.

Post #12   2/20/07 3:33:17PM   

JunCTion

READY TO SMILE AND LOVE LIFE!!

JunCTion Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:807
Career:543-390
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Camp David
Chips:
27

Posted by OB_Juan

No, Dana, please do NOT give him a shot. If he signed a 3 fight contract they'd be lucky to get 1 decent performance out of him.

How about we look at Vitor's entire career. His first 4 fights a roided up Vitor KO's bigger, mostly out of shape fighters w/ relatively low skill levels. Then Randy puts him in his place. Then another win for Vitor vs Charles (woohoo). Next, the pinnacle of his career. A 21 yr old Vitor KOs a 22 yr old Wanderlei (who was a fraction of the fighter then that he is now). A 6-1 Vitor moves to Pride.

That's when he takes his down turn IMO. He breaks his hand on Sak's head and suddenly he's scared to throw punches like he used to. The remainder of his stint in Pride consists primarily of LnP decisions (including a BS dec over Herring).

So (at 10-2 on paper) he comes back to the UFC and loses a decision to Chuck. I think that was the very last fight that I actually rooted for Vitor personally.

A year later he gets a nice cut stoppage over Eastman. Enter the Old Vitor, "We back mama! We back!". Could it be so? Apparently the nuthuggers thought so because in his next fight he manages to cut Randy w/ a punch that didn't even connect. "The new LHW champ! War Old Vitor!!!"

Then of course Randy teaches him a lesson in their rubbermatch. Nuthuggers cry "headbutt" but ignore the fact that the accidental cut from the butting of heads was not even the same cut that stopped the fight. Rather, it was one of the several other cuts he received from dozens of unanswered elbows. But yeah, you can call that a just doctor's stoppage (kind of like his win over Eastman, right) even though he was totally outclassed the entire fight save for some eye gouging he did on Randy.

Next is Tito. While Belfort fans claim that he was robbed, he really did very little but clip Tito's nose in rd 1 and hold him down for most of rd 2 while Tito was actually the busier striker from his back in that round. Vitor's little flurry that was completely blocked by Tito apparently gassed him out and Vitor offered nothing the rest of the fight. Round 3 Vitor ends up on his back as soon as BJM makes him let go fo the fence and that's it. Vitor didn't even initiate any of the stand up exchanges the entire fight. Even though he should have had the advantage standing he only counter punches.

Over his next 5 fights he KOs a couple C level fighters, gets choked out, and loses 2 decisions to other fighters w/ questionable gas tanks themselves and in both cases where he SHOULD have been the favorite. There you have it, the carreer of "The Phenom" in a nutshell. Hmmm... when you really look at it it's not quite as impressive as it is on paper.

Vitor is quite easily the biggest waste of potential in the history of MMA. He had so many tools and natural abilities yet he's proven to be a mental midget (Tito's words, not mine). Haters say he lacks heart but i'm not sure if I totally agree. Sure, he apparently gives up when a fight isn't going his way but he sticks it out even if it means taking a beating until the final bell. I do respect that, however I do not respect dirty fighting. Meh...



wow. youre good. i cant even respond to that bacause i was looking at it on paper (actually on the computer screen.)

Post #13   2/20/07 3:33:53PM   

waylon_o

In Full Mount

waylon_o Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:670
Career:162-90
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Wicked Wizards
Chips:
35
What exactly happened with Vitor's sister's kidnapping? I can't believe I've never heard about that.

Post #14   2/20/07 4:27:31PM   

OB_Juan

MMA Regular

OB_Juan Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:227
Career:481-329
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Bloodyknux.com
Chips:
19
She disappeared for like 2 yrs and was eventually found dead.

Post #15   2/20/07 4:39:45PM   
 
  Page 1 of 2     1     2