Fitch |
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keith-hackney1
Belt Contender
Career record: 180-150
Season: 39-31 (#2153)
Location: hampshire, england
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Sorry fitch fans, the guy is over hyped, davis would smash him !!!
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Post #16 3/2/08 4:00:46PM
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warglory
MMA Sensei
Career record: 169-115
Season: 31-27 (#2819)
Location:
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Posted by keith-hackney1
Sorry fitch fans, the guy is over hyped, davis would smash him !!!
Marcus Davis is a damn good fighter, but he has never faced anyone at the caliber of Jon Fitch. Does he have better stand up than Fitch? I would say yes, but Fitch's wrestling is far superior and once he got into a clinch with Davis, I don't see Fitch having any difficulties taking Davis down, and once that happened, I highly doubt Fitch would have any problems having his way. Fitch would just need to stay inside of Davis' punching power since his dirty boxing and clinch are not his strong suit as an American style boxer.
Last edited 3/2/08 4:25PM by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #17 3/2/08 4:24:32PM
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cj_striker
MMA Regular
Career record: 91-62
Season: 33-24 (#3216)
Location: sebring, fl
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completely agree with warglory on his first and second posts. he took the words right out of my mouth.
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Post #18 3/2/08 5:45:01PM
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gartface
MMA Sensei
Career record: 147-96
Season: 51-19 (#178)
Location: Flo-town, SC
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Posted by warglory
Posted by keith-hackney1
Sorry fitch fans, the guy is over hyped, davis would smash him !!!
Marcus Davis is a damn good fighter, but he has never faced anyone at the caliber of Jon Fitch. Does he have better stand up than Fitch? I would say yes, but Fitch's wrestling is far superior and once he got into a clinch with Davis, I don't see Fitch having any difficulties taking Davis down, and once that happened, I highly doubt Fitch would have any problems having his way. Fitch would just need to stay inside of Davis' punching power since his dirty boxing and clinch are not his strong suit as an American style boxer.
In the same way you could say that Fitch hasn't fought the caliber of fighter Marcus Davis is.
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Post #19 3/2/08 5:59:14PM
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warglory
MMA Sensei
Career record: 169-115
Season: 31-27 (#2819)
Location:
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Posted by gartface
Posted by warglory
Posted by keith-hackney1
Sorry fitch fans, the guy is over hyped, davis would smash him !!!
Marcus Davis is a damn good fighter, but he has never faced anyone at the caliber of Jon Fitch. Does he have better stand up than Fitch? I would say yes, but Fitch's wrestling is far superior and once he got into a clinch with Davis, I don't see Fitch having any difficulties taking Davis down, and once that happened, I highly doubt Fitch would have any problems having his way. Fitch would just need to stay inside of Davis' punching power since his dirty boxing and clinch are not his strong suit as an American style boxer.
In the same way you could say that Fitch hasn't fought the caliber of fighter Marcus Davis is.
Touche, but you have to admit that Fitch deserves the title shot much more than Davis does, or anyone else for that matter in this division. Though I would like to see Davis vs. Fitch as a fan.
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Post #20 3/2/08 6:02:00PM
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Beardotheweirdo
Learning to Sprawl
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Career record: 208-122
Season: 45-25 (#266)
Location: Toronto
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It's got to be hard to motivate yourself to train for a fight against a guy who you should easily dominate. Fitch had a lot of pressure on himself to perform well. All it takes is one mistake in mma, Ficth made sure that he didn't make that mistake last night. Wilson has skills and if Fitch lost that fight, people would be calling him a scrub and his title-shot would be out the window.
And for Wilson, he had no pressure on him, because he had nothing to lose, EVERYONE expected him to get his ass kicked. That is a big advantage.
There are 100's of factors that affect the outcome of a fight.
I'm pretty sure Ficth will train much harder for his title-shot, when he gets it. It is very common for fighters to come under-prepared when facing lesser competition.
How do you motivate yourself to train at 100% when you only need 75% of your abilities to beat the opponent? You don't, because NO ONE likes pushing themselves 100%. It is human nature to seek the easier route.
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Post #21 3/2/08 6:02:33PM
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How do you like me so far?
Career record: 128-68
Season: 50-19 (#243)
Location: Land O' Lakes
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Posted by Beardotheweirdo
It's got to be hard to motivate yourself to train for a fight against a guy who you should easily dominate. Fitch had a lot of pressure on himself to perform well. All it takes is one mistake in mma, Ficth made sure that he didn't make that mistake last night. Wilson has skills and if Fitch lost that fight, people would be calling him a scrub and his title-shot would be out the window.
And for Wilson, he had no pressure on him, because he had nothing to lose, EVERYONE expected him to get his ass kicked. That is a big advantage.
There are 100's of factors that affect the outcome of a fight.
I'm pretty sure Ficth will train much harder for his title-shot, when he gets it. It is very common for fighters to come under-prepared when facing lesser competition.
How do you motivate yourself to train at 100% when you only need 75% of your abilities to beat the opponent? You don't, because NO ONE likes pushing themselves 100%. It is human nature to seek the easier route.
Nicely put.
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It don't hurt 'til the bone shows!
You have your way, I have mine. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way. It does not exist.
The Few, The Proud, The MMA Army!!
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Post #22 3/2/08 6:05:28PM
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WarWagon Never Die!
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Career record: 173-125
Season: 34-36 (#3376)
Location: talkin trash to the garbage around me
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Posted by MFOTHER
the only thing i count him out on is a win over the current champ.
You do realize Matt Serra is the current WW champ, right?
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There can be ONLY 1 WarWagon
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Post #23 3/2/08 6:34:26PM
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tberg420
Standup Guy
Career record: 220-127
Season: 46-24 (#388)
Location: Indianapolis
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Posted by Beardotheweirdo
It's got to be hard to motivate yourself to train for a fight against a guy who you should easily dominate. Fitch had a lot of pressure on himself to perform well. All it takes is one mistake in mma, Ficth made sure that he didn't make that mistake last night. Wilson has skills and if Fitch lost that fight, people would be calling him a scrub and his title-shot would be out the window.
And for Wilson, he had no pressure on him, because he had nothing to lose, EVERYONE expected him to get his ass kicked. That is a big advantage.
There are 100's of factors that affect the outcome of a fight.
I'm pretty sure Ficth will train much harder for his title-shot, when he gets it. It is very common for fighters to come under-prepared when facing lesser competition.
How do you motivate yourself to train at 100% when you only need 75% of your abilities to beat the opponent? You don't, because NO ONE likes pushing themselves 100%. It is human nature to seek the easier route.
I think that Fitch's striking game needs work in order for him to move to the next level. As far as Marcus Davis goes, he's overrated big time. He hasn't fought anyone and will get dominated when he fights someone in the Top 15.
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Post #24 3/2/08 6:36:11PM
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NatedawgThaM
MMA Sensei
Career record: 150-91
Season: 44-24 (#1353)
Location: New Providence, Pa
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Posted by MFOTHER
did not impress me last night. he gets so much hype on these kinds of boards. YEs he is an impressive fighter, but people were talking about wilson being a chump that was just supposed to further fitch's win record (to get close to or pass r. gracie's)
After last night i dont think he has a chance in hell againts GSP.
The only people who thought Chris Wilson was a can are not diehard fans. The man trains a Team Quest which is a wrestling powerhouse which is Fitch's strength.
That last sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This was his worst performance by far but didn't he still win? Get off GSP's nuts. Serra proved he's not unstoppable. Fitch has the exact style to beat him. He's a young explosive wrestler with good enough striking training at AKA. He has a better chance then Matt Hughes would ever have on a bad night.
Last edited 3/2/08 6:38PM by Natedawgtham
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #25 3/2/08 6:37:03PM
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keith-hackney1
Belt Contender
Career record: 180-150
Season: 39-31 (#2153)
Location: hampshire, england
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How do you motivate yourself to train at 100% when you only need 75% of your abilities to beat the opponent? You don't, because NO ONE likes pushing themselves 100%. It is human nature to seek the easier route.
I think that Fitch's striking game needs work in order for him to move to the next level. As far as Marcus Davis goes, he's overrated big time. He hasn't fought anyone and will get dominated when he fights someone in the Top 15.
You will change your mind when davis ko's swick !!!!
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Post #26 3/7/08 5:34:48PM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
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Am I the only one finding it funny that people in here are assuming they know the mental state of a fighter while they are training?
Another thing, saying "all a fighter needs to do is practise this and watch that and he will beat so and so" means nothing. Talk is cheap. Doing it is the hard part and not everyone can do everything they need to do.
Fitch is a good fighter with lots of potential. He does not deserve a title shot at this moment. He needs to fight more recognized fighters for his shot to be more legit. I keep saying this, there is a reason why Fitch's competition has stagnated (for the most part) over his last 4 fights.
I can only speculate what that reason(s) might be:
1) The UFC might not think he is the most marketable fighter right now
2) The UFC might think he isn't ready (or Fitch himself might not think he's ready)
3) There are issues with ranking (who came first) with him and Koscheck (and now Swick) or even Karo
4) TUF and Serra's injury have literally screwed up the WW division rankings and title shots.
5) Any combination of the the above
Last edited 3/7/08 6:28PM by Rush
Edit note/reason: n/a
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MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
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Post #27 3/7/08 6:27:14PM
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Tailgunner
MMA Regular
Career record: 81-47
Season: 24-17 (#5634)
Location: California
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Posted by JimiMak
You do realize Matt Serra is the current WW champ, right?
Not for much longer.........I hope Serra savored being the Champ cause he will never be Champ again come April!
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Post #28 3/8/08 9:13:03PM
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warglory
MMA Sensei
Career record: 169-115
Season: 31-27 (#2819)
Location:
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Posted by Rush
Am I the only one finding it funny that people in here are assuming they know the mental state of a fighter while they are training?
Another thing, saying "all a fighter needs to do is practise this and watch that and he will beat so and so" means nothing. Talk is cheap. Doing it is the hard part and not everyone can do everything they need to do.
Fitch is a good fighter with lots of potential. He does not deserve a title shot at this moment. He needs to fight more recognized fighters for his shot to be more legit. I keep saying this, there is a reason why Fitch's competition has stagnated (for the most part) over his last 4 fights.
I can only speculate what that reason(s) might be:
1) The UFC might not think he is the most marketable fighter right now
2) The UFC might think he isn't ready (or Fitch himself might not think he's ready)
3) There are issues with ranking (who came first) with him and Koscheck (and now Swick) or even Karo
4) TUF and Serra's injury have literally screwed up the WW division rankings and title shots.
5) Any combination of the the above
I couldn't disagree more. Fitch is the clear front runner for the next title shot. Fitch has fought and beaten convincingly everyone they have thrown at him (including Sanchez; that split decision was a horrible call on the judge's part). Every opponent he has had has been tough, and not one of his opponents has come close to beating him in the UFC. I really don't understand how so many fans can have such a lack of confidence in him. Everyone else in the division has lost matches in between winning them, including the top dogs in the division like Karo, Sanchez, Davis and Koscheck. The next title fight needs to be Fitch vs. GSP/Serra or I will be immensely disappointed.
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Post #29 3/9/08 2:33:12PM
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Laying down the beats
Career record: 192-150
Season: 37-33 (#1810)
Location: Canada
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Posted by warglory
I couldn't disagree more. Fitch is the clear front runner for the next title shot. Fitch has fought and beaten convincingly everyone they have thrown at him (including Sanchez; that split decision was a horrible call on the judge's part). Every opponent he has had has been tough, and not one of his opponents has come close to beating him in the UFC. I really don't understand how so many fans can have such a lack of confidence in him. Everyone else in the division has lost matches in between winning them, including the top dogs in the division like Karo, Sanchez, Davis and Koscheck. The next title fight needs to be Fitch vs. GSP/Serra or I will be immensely disappointed.
Ok you disagree, but everyone that disagrees with my points has yet to explain why the UFC hasn't given him better fighters. Why is Sanchez the only "ranked" fighter Fitch has fought in 8 UFC fights? I have provided a detailed argument, but all the people that disagree just say that he has beat good fighters and is undefeated.
I'm not doubting that Fitch is a good fighter and potential contender. I just don't think the UFC has created a situation where Fitch deserves a title shot. Right now I see Fitch in a similar position as Nate Marquardt was when he got his title shot. Nate didn't fight any top 10 fighters and got the title shot. Look at what happened. It's easy to say in hind sight "well it ws anderson Silva" but I am sure a lot of people picked Nate to win that fight.
Here was my detailed explanation from another thread (note this was prior to UFC 82)
Larson's record is impressive, but both losses are his only two fights in the UFC. Also notice that with the exception of Burkman (of whom I have not been really impressed lately) Fitch is fighting these guys in
their first or second UFC match. And most of them were 1-2 or 2-1 in the UFC at the time.
If you look at Fitch's record (IMO) he beat some decent guys when he first came. However, the level of his competition has stayed the same for 2.5 years. GSP is a perfect example (And IMO more typical) of a fighter that has progressively better opponents when he keeps winning.
Let's do the comparison
Fitch
-First fight is with Larson. Both guys are pretty new to the UFC so it makes sense.
-Second fight is with Burkman. Burkman is a reasonably decent fighter at the time with a couple wins. Fitch wins again. So far makes sense.
-Third fight is with Alves. Alves had a rocky start, but had just come off two wins. Still makes sense.
- Fourth fight with Hironaka. Fitch has a three fighting winning streak a couple of them decent guys and then they give him Hironaka, who is fighting his first fight in the UFC.
-Fifth fight against Luigi. This was Luigi's 4th fight in the UFC, previously with a 2-1 record. Not really what I would call a step up from Fitch's first or second fights
-Sixth fight against Roan. This was Roan's second fight after a decision win against Rich Clementi. Still not a step up in opponents from Fitch's first or second fights
-Seventh fight. Finally Fitch fights a guy that is top ten (not top 5, top 10). This is the fight Fitch should have had for his Fourth or Fifth fight. Yet, he gets it as his seventh fight after Diego loses. It's a small step up, but I get the hunch that he would not have fought Diego had Diego beat Koscheck and he sure as hell wouldn't have fought Koscheck if Diego won.
-Eighth fight upcoming with Chris Wilson. The guy is 13-3, which is decent, but it's his first fight in the UFC, so you have to take that with a grain of salt.
Now GSP
-First fight is with Karo. A pretty appropriate fight I think considering this was Karo's second fight in the UFC.
-Second fight Jay Hieron. Not a step up in competition, but like Fitch, it was GSP's second UFC fight at the time
-Third fight MAtt Hughes. This fight should not have happen so soon IMO. Sure GSP ran a clinic on Hieron, but I think it was too soon for him to fight Hughes and it showed by GSP losing
-Fourth fight Jason Miller. It was Jason's first fight in the UFC, but Georges was coming off a loss. I still think it would have been better to give George Miller instead of Hughes, but hey.
-Fifth fight Trigg. This is where you can see GSP's level of opponents separate from Fitch's and where I think Fitch's (see above) opponents should have been top ten. GSP fights Trigg, who just came off a title fight loss to Hughes, where he came close to winning the fight
-Sixth fight with Sean Sherk. Three previous fights with the UFC and only loss in career was to Hughes as well as a fight in Pride.
-Seventh fight with BJ Penn. Do I need to actually explain this one?
-Eighth fight was a title shot with the guy many considered to be the most dominant UFC fighter at the time.
So you tell me if there is something wrong here.
Fitch goes 7-0 and is now fighting a guy, who's fighting his first fight in the UFC.
GSP 6-1 and gets a title shot (his second title shot)
I know there is some strange timing issues with respect to title shots, but that doesn't change the fact that Fitch should have been fighting guys of Diego's calibre by the time he was 4-0 in the UFC. He is 7-0 now and still not getting the competition he should be.
The UFC is doing it for a reason. Either they don't think is marketable yet or what, I don't know, but he has not gotten the competition he needs to be a top 5 fighter.
Last edited 3/9/08 3:13PM by Rush
Edit note/reason: n/a
2 total post edits
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MMA Playground Ninja Moderator - Be cool and follow forum conduct or you'll be banned and all you will see is a puff of smoke. Members banned - 31, IPs banned - 19
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Post #30 3/9/08 2:58:54PM
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