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Mir Calls Fedor's Fights 'More of a Carnival'
Mir Calls Fedor's Fights 'More of a Carnival' |
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Dennis Hallman?
Career record: 134-55
Season: 68-33 (#11)
Location: Oklahoma
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Man thats a long reply Aether. Look this has been done to death. Its just my point of view you can hang on to Fedors glory days all you want but the truth is he hasn't had a fight against anyone I would call a top 10 in over 3 years. You can try to up talk the fighters he fought for the past three years all you want doesn't make them top 10 or top 20. You can also down talk the other fighters at HW but they all have been in the mix and fighting top level fighters. This has been talked about and talked about on these forums you have your die hard Fedor fans (which you fall in to) and you have the truth.
Now by any means I didn't say Fedor couldn't win I just gave my view on who I think has the skills to beat him and where that skill set is best to do so. Now I do agree Fedor is a great fighter but unlike a lot of people I don't think he is the same fighter he was 3-4 years ago.
Last edited 5/15/08 2:29AM by telnights
Edit note/reason: n/a
_______________________________________
Anxiously awaiting Scott "The Pit Bull" Ferrozzo's return.
The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose.
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Post #31 5/15/08 2:28:15AM
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Aether
In Full Mount
Career record: 82-59
Season: 24-21 (#6844)
Location:
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in other words you have absolutely no legitimate response to anything that I said, so you'll just be condescending instead while completely ignoring every point I made. The response is long because I back my statements up with logical points and you say "this is how it is because I say so". What you've done here is the adult equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shaking your head while screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"
"Now by any means I didn't say Fedor couldn't win I just gave my view on who I think has the skills to beat him and where that skill set is best to do so."
You wrote a list of names down and said absolutely nothing to back up your view of _WHY_ you believe it. You can say I believe this and I believe that all day long, but if you can't provide any reasoning for any of the things you're saying then your opinion is completely worthless. Not only did you not provide any reasoning but you actually contradicted the only point that you were able to provide to back anything you're saying up, by saying fedor hasn't fought any top guys lately, and then following it up by telling us that vera who has ONE win over what can't even be considered a top ten fighter in frank mir AFTER his motorcycle accident and long layoff. But I guess when you don't use logic to formulate points you're allowed to flip flop all over the place and ignore the logic in other people's points.
By the way guys tito ortiz could beat chuck liddell because I don't think chuck has been the same fighter in his last three fights. What I'm saying makes sense because I believe it, despite the fact that all of the information we have about the issue suggests that what I'm saying makes no sense at all!
Last edited 5/15/08 9:58AM by aether
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #32 5/15/08 9:56:48AM
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Dennis Hallman?
Career record: 134-55
Season: 68-33 (#11)
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted by Aether
in other words you have absolutely no legitimate response to anything that I said, so you'll just be condescending instead while completely ignoring every point I made. The response is long because I back my statements up with logical points and you say "this is how it is because I say so". What you've done here is the adult equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shaking your head while screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"
"Now by any means I didn't say Fedor couldn't win I just gave my view on who I think has the skills to beat him and where that skill set is best to do so."
You wrote a list of names down and said absolutely nothing to back up your view of _WHY_ you believe it. You can say I believe this and I believe that all day long, but if you can't provide any reasoning for any of the things you're saying then your opinion is completely worthless. Not only did you not provide any reasoning but you actually contradicted the only point that you were able to provide to back anything you're saying up, by saying fedor hasn't fought any top guys lately, and then following it up by telling us that vera who has ONE win over what can't even be considered a top ten fighter in frank mir AFTER his motorcycle accident and long layoff. But I guess when you don't use logic to formulate points you're allowed to flip flop all over the place and ignore the logic in other people's points.
By the way guys tito ortiz could beat chuck liddell because I don't think chuck has been the same fighter in his last three fights. What I'm saying makes sense because I believe it, despite the fact that all of the information we have about the issue suggests that what I'm saying makes no sense at all!
For one you need to learn to quote properly for two My response was just as legitimate as yours. Yours is still just your point of view doesn't make it better than anyone else on these forums. I don't have to back up my view its my view I don't have to prove to you my point of view is better and have no desire to do so to a huge Fedor fan as thats about as fun as watching paint dry or going to the dentist. Look you think Fedor can beat anyone I don't agree its that simple. But since you want to go down this road.
Chuck has fought top 10 fighters his past 3 fights has Fedor? Has Fedor had a fight that anyone would call a risk for him in 3 years? What has Fedor done in the past 3 years to show us he is still the same fighter? Why is it that Fedor fans have to justify his ranking and the fact he hasn't fought a top fighter in 3 years? So why is it Fedor hasn't fought any ranked fighters? Is it his management, the fight org he is working for, or just Fedor avoiding top level fighters. We can say it isn't the fight orgs because he has fought for 3 different ones. So its either his management or him. Well if its management that means they don't have the faith in him to take on a top level fighter. If its him that means he doesn't have faith in himself. It was shown in his last contract with pride his management and him had full rights in choosing who he fights. Now he is finally going to be fighting a top 10 fighter when he fights Timmy. I think the only reason they took this fight is because they think this fight will go the same way the Hong Man Choi fight did and they know Timmy is open to subs because Nog was able to sub him. But in the end I think they are going to be sadly mistaken and Fedor is going to end up with a black mark on his record. But at least he will be taking on a top level fighter for the first time in 3 years.
We can do this all day long and has been done more times than I can count on these forums. This has been done to death and is getting old.
Last edited 5/15/08 2:54PM by telnights
Edit note/reason: n/a
_______________________________________
Anxiously awaiting Scott "The Pit Bull" Ferrozzo's return.
The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose.
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Post #33 5/15/08 2:52:15PM
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ICSlegend
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-19
Season: 25-19 (#6516)
Location:
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No telnights, your responses are not "as legitimate" as Aether's.
Your arguments DO NOT APPLY. Chuck has lost to Jardine, Couture, Jackson (annihilated x2), Horn and possibly against Bustamante, Soleuv, and Vitor.
Fedor has lost to who again? Was there a questionable decision somewhere? Did he even lose a single round to someone (besides CC).
Ok, end of that BS argument.
And I don't know why most of you guys are so fickle and have short term memories. Randy has ALMOST no chance against Fedor. Yes, he can gameplan, and he was a DECENT wrestler (not as good as Lindland/Coleman), but he's no lethal striker or sub wizard. Fedor's better by miles in every area. Sure he has good gameplans, but what weaknesses of Fedor's would he exploit? His chin? If CC/Choi/Schilt couldn't do that, how will the less powerful Randy?
Randy is just so overrated for beating one-hit wonder Gonzaga and Tim (both under questionable circumstances). Nowhere near the accomplishments of most top HWs and has demonstrated nothing except his mythical gameplanning (where were these gameplans against Barnett/Overeem/Ricco, etc).
And I'm not a blind Fedor fan (I actually don't even like him at all, but his skills are great to watch). You guys forgot about Kharitonov (you know, the guy that not only beat Nog, but shut him down in every area of the fight - kind of like Fedor, but less of a domination). Sergei, CC, and Nastula (with cardio) would beat Fedor, but we can't rank them ahead because they all have losses and haven't proven themselves like Fedor has. I don't think Barnett would beat him, but it would be an awesome fight, way more competitive then Couture or Tim.
And to the people discrediting Fedor's wins, how many top HW's could beat top K1 fighters like Hunt and Choi AND Olympian Lindland. He's a complete Mixed Martial Artist and proves it time and time again. Hell, I think Anderson would get wrecked by an elite K1 fighter. So would Liddell (Jardine is nowhere close, and Jackson only had what like 2 K1 fights?). Randy's striking isn't that great (well, its better now, but in the first Liddell fight it was nowhere near K1 level).
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Post #34 5/16/08 6:15:05PM
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Aether
In Full Mount
Career record: 82-59
Season: 24-21 (#6844)
Location:
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I actually always thought that kharitonov would be one of his best matches when he was in PRIDE, but the guy seems to have pretty much disappeared off of the face of the earth over the last year so I didn't include him.
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Post #35 5/17/08 5:39:25AM
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ICSlegend
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-19
Season: 25-19 (#6516)
Location:
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Posted by Aether
I actually always thought that kharitonov would be one of his best matches when he was in PRIDE, but the guy seems to have pretty much disappeared off of the face of the earth over the last year so I didn't include him.
He just fought in Heros in September, more recently then Couture.
I assume he's still with Heros/Dream.
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Post #36 5/17/08 10:34:44AM
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Dennis Hallman?
Career record: 134-55
Season: 68-33 (#11)
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted by ICSlegend
No telnights, your responses are not "as legitimate" as Aether's.
Your arguments DO NOT APPLY. Chuck has lost to Jardine, Couture, Jackson (annihilated x2), Horn and possibly against Bustamante, Soleuv, and Vitor.
Fedor has lost to who again? Was there a questionable decision somewhere? Did he even lose a single round to someone (besides CC).
Ok, end of that BS argument.
And I don't know why most of you guys are so fickle and have short term memories. Randy has ALMOST no chance against Fedor. Yes, he can gameplan, and he was a DECENT wrestler (not as good as Lindland/Coleman), but he's no lethal striker or sub wizard. Fedor's better by miles in every area. Sure he has good gameplans, but what weaknesses of Fedor's would he exploit? His chin? If CC/Choi/Schilt couldn't do that, how will the less powerful Randy?
Randy is just so overrated for beating one-hit wonder Gonzaga and Tim (both under questionable circumstances). Nowhere near the accomplishments of most top HWs and has demonstrated nothing except his mythical gameplanning (where were these gameplans against Barnett/Overeem/Ricco, etc).
And I'm not a blind Fedor fan (I actually don't even like him at all, but his skills are great to watch). You guys forgot about Kharitonov (you know, the guy that not only beat Nog, but shut him down in every area of the fight - kind of like Fedor, but less of a domination). Sergei, CC, and Nastula (with cardio) would beat Fedor, but we can't rank them ahead because they all have losses and haven't proven themselves like Fedor has. I don't think Barnett would beat him, but it would be an awesome fight, way more competitive then Couture or Tim.
And to the people discrediting Fedor's wins, how many top HW's could beat top K1 fighters like Hunt and Choi AND Olympian Lindland. He's a complete Mixed Martial Artist and proves it time and time again. Hell, I think Anderson would get wrecked by an elite K1 fighter. So would Liddell (Jardine is nowhere close, and Jackson only had what like 2 K1 fights?). Randy's striking isn't that great (well, its better now, but in the first Liddell fight it was nowhere near K1 level).
More thoughtful in site from ICSlegend  . You know for a long post you didn't even answer one of the ? I asked. You know you claim not to be a Fedor fan but yet you defend him every chance you can. You also have him Ranked number 1 in HWs but you have a lot of rankings that are way off base if you ask me. Why is it people like you all end up defending Fedors fights against Hunt, Linland, and Choi as if they were contenders at HW? I'm so sick of poeple claiming they are not fans when everything they do screams I'm a fan.
Your rankings 
#1 Fedor Emelianenko
#2 Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira
#3 Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic
#4 Josh "The Babyface Assassin" Barnett
#5 Sergei Kharitonov
#6 Andrei "Pitbull" Arlovski
#7 Fabricio Werdum
#8 Aleksander Emelianenko
#9 Randy "The Natural " Couture
#10 Tim "The Maine-iac" Sylvia
Your LHW
#1 Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
#2 Wanderlei "The Axe Murderer" Silva
#3 Lyoto Machida
#4 Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
#5 Antonio Rogerio "Minotoro" Nogueira
#6 Ricardo Arona
#7 Dan "Hollywood" Henderson
#8 Rameau "African Assassin" Sokoudjou
#9 Kazuhiro Nakamura
#10 Keith "The Dean of Mean" Jardine
MW
#1 Paulo Filho
#2 Kazushi "The Gracie Hunter" Sakuraba
#3 Anderson "The Spider" Silva
#4 Frank "The Legend" Shamrock
#5 Dan "Hollywood" Henderson
#6 Kazuo "Grabaka Hitman" Misaki
#7 Akihiro Gono
#8 Yoshihiro Akiyama
#9 Rich "Ace" Franklin
#10 Yushin "Thunder" Okami
But everyone is welcome to there own rankings but don't tell me for 1 second that my response isn't legitimate with ranking that biased and down right one sided. Talk about not legitimate .
_______________________________________
Anxiously awaiting Scott "The Pit Bull" Ferrozzo's return.
The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose.
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Post #37 5/17/08 4:53:24PM
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ICSlegend
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-19
Season: 25-19 (#6516)
Location:
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Posted by telnights
More thoughtful in site from ICSlegend . You know for a long post you didn't even answer one of the ? I asked.
Actually the word is "insight", but I guess you wouldn't know that, now would you
The reason I didn't DIRECTLY answer your questions, is because your questions are not fact-based. They are non-fact based opinions, so are difficult to answer. Aether and I went over why Fedor HAS fought top opponents. You don't think K1 strikers and Olympic wrestlers are good opponents, and that's your problem. Striking is a major exponent of MMA, and so is wrestling, if you can't see that I don't see how you can even remotely analyze anything in MMA. Fedor continues not only to beat top MMA fighters like Nog, but beat top K1 strikers like Hunt/Choi/Schilt/CC, as well as OLYMPIAN WRESTLERS like Coleman and Lindland. What more do you want from him? He's beaten the best in every area, unlike ANY OTHER HW. Seriously, how can this even be debated? Once he annihilates Tim Sylvia (who is not anywhere near skilled in any area that Fedor HAS ALREADY dominated fighters much better than Tim in), will that satisfy you? Or does he have to beat every single MMA fighter on every top list 3 times over to prove himself?
Posted by telnights
You know you claim not to be a Fedor fan but yet you defend him every chance you can. You also have him Ranked number 1 in HWs but you have a lot of rankings that are way off base if you ask me. Why is it people like you all end up defending Fedors fights against Hunt, Linland, and Choi as if they were contenders at HW? I'm so sick of poeple claiming they are not fans when everything they do screams I'm a fan.
I defend him as necessary. When did I defend him against claims that he can't be beaten!? I made those claims myself! I don't like Fedor, but I can differentiate between being an immature fanboy who thinks one fighter is the best and has no weaknesses, and realistically assessing a fighter's skill. Fedor is the most proven HW in MMA. No losses, and arguably only a single dropped round. NO ONE CAN COMPARE. However I really don't like Fedor, and I think CC would destroy him second time around, and Sergei and Nastula would beat him as well. I am a big CC/Kharitonov fan, and I don't rank them #1 just because I think they have the ability to beat Fedor. It's skill PLUS accomplishment, where Fedor is #1 no doubt. I do understand how I can come off as a fan, particularly to people who rank based on who they like and not skill/accomplishments.
And I didn't ask you about my rankings, I can attack yours as well. Rankings are all subjective anyway, what's the point? I can call your rankings biased and one sided as well, who cares? And I haven't even updated my rankings in a while so its all a moot point anyway.
And don't take anything too personally, if I thought you were stupid I wouldn't have wasted my time responding, you're cool in my book, and this was fun, but seriously, open your eyes a little bit.
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Post #38 5/17/08 6:47:51PM
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Dennis Hallman?
Career record: 134-55
Season: 68-33 (#11)
Location: Oklahoma
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I'm not even going to quote you as it isn't worth it. I remember now why I didn't bother replying to lot of your post its because you think everything that you type is a fact. But for info to help you understand the difference can go read up what a FACT is and what a OPINION is. You go on again about how good the fighters he has fought in the past but lets just break down the past 3 years.
Hong Man Choi - A freak show fight. He had 1 MMA fight before taking on what most people think to be the greatest HW ever. One hole fight and no back ground at all in any forum of a ground game. Its easier to learn striking than it is to learn a ground game. Its not something you can do over night takes years to become good at it. I wouldn't even say he was Ranked in the top 20-30 of HWs
Matt Linland - Yes a Olympian at 167 pounds and only so because he sued his way on to the team. Claiming he lost because he was tripped by Keith Sieracki which is a foul in Greco-Roman Wrestling. Lot of people me included think if Keith Sieracki would have been in Linland's place we would have won the gold and not silver. Funny thing is Matt had bitten a guy in the first rounds of the Olympic try outs and should have been kicked out of the try outs all together. But all that aside Matt is a MW not HW . There is a hole weight class between the two. I'm sorry but their are weight class for a reason and a top rated HW Sambo wrestler will beat a top rated MW Greco-Roman wrestler all day long. Not even rank at HW because he isn't a HW he is a MW.
Mark Hunt - This is the only fight I would say was close to being a chalange at all for Fedor in the past 3 years. But Hunts lack of a ground game doesnt make him very threatening for a Sambo Champ. He is a good striker but would not fair very well in the UFC under its rule set. This is because his lack of a ground game. He also was not even a top 15 HW at the time in most peoples rankings and is even futher down the list.
Mark Coleman - Good OLD Coleman! He was a great fighter at one time. Truly the man laid the ground work for GnP. But he was all but washed up when he faced Fedor. He was 43 years old when they fought and not a good 43 years old. His age has really caught up with Coleman. He wasn't even Ranked in the top 20-30 of HWs at the time.
Wagner da Conceicao Martins - Another freak show fight for Fedor. When he fought Fedor he was big time he had 2 hole MMA fights. Yet another fighter not even ranked.
Mirko Filipovic - WOW OMG a ranked fighter. Not knocking CC he is a good fighter but we seen how he faired under the UFC rule set.
Tsuyoshi Kohsaka - Not the worst but not a top 20 either.
So why is it Fedor is still ranked first because he hasn't done much in 3 1/2 years and we have HWs that have been activly fighting top HWs and winning. If it was any other fighter not fighting top competition for 3 1/2 years they would have dropped in the rankings by now.
Now as far as my rankings go a head and try to tear them apart. I will even post them for you to make it easier.
HW
#1 Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira
#2 Randy "The Natural " Couture
#3 Tim "The Maine-iac" Sylvia
#4 Fedor Emelianenko
#5 Josh "The Babyface Assassin" Barnett
#6 Andrei "Pitbull" Arlovski
#7 Fabricio Werdum
#8 Gabriel "Napao" Gonzaga
#9 Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic
#10
LHW
#1 Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
#2 Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell
#3 Forrest Griffin
#4 Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
#5 Lyoto Machida
#6 Wanderlei "The Axe Murderer" Silva
#7 Keith "The Dean of Mean" Jardine
#8 Rashad "Sugar" Evans
#9 Rameau "African Assassin" Sokoudjou
#10
MW
#1 Anderson "The Spider" Silva
#2 Rich "Ace" Franklin
#3 Dan "Hollywood" Henderson
#4 Yushin "Thunder" Okami
#5 Paulo Filho
#6 Nathan "The Great" Marquardt
#7 Robbie "Ruthless" Lawler
#8 Yoshihiro Akiyama
WW
#1 Georges "Rush " St. Pierre
#2 Jon Fitch
#3 Matt Hughes
#4 Josh "Kos" Koscheck
#5 Matt "The Terror" Serra
#6 Diego "Nightmare" Sanchez
#7 Thiago "Pitbull" Alves
#8 Jake Shields
#9 Karo "The Heat" Parisyan
#10 Carlos "Natural Born Killer" Condit
Now I don't like to rank below my top 5 because it changes so much.
Last edited 5/17/08 10:57PM by telnights
Edit note/reason: n/a
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_______________________________________
Anxiously awaiting Scott "The Pit Bull" Ferrozzo's return.
The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose.
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Post #39 5/17/08 10:52:02PM
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ICSlegend
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-19
Season: 25-19 (#6516)
Location:
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Posted by telnights
I'm not even going to quote you as it isn't worth it. I remember now why I didn't bother replying to lot of your post its because you think everything that you type is a fact. But for info to help you understand the difference can go read up what a FACT is and what a OPINION is. You go on again about how good the fighters he has fought in the past but lets just break down the past 3 years.
So its an opinion that Mark Hunt and Choi are K1 champs? It's an opinion Lindland and Coleman were Olympians? What are you smoking buddy? You need to read those links you posted. Top 10 lists are opinions not facts, no matter how hard you try to change this you can't. If you really knew the difference between a fact and an opinion this wouldn't be an issue. It's your OPINION Fedor hasn't faced tough comp in the past 3 years. It's my OPINION he has. It's a FACT that you have to be an ELITE STRIKER to be a K1 champion. It's a FACT that you have to be among the best in the world to medal at the Olympics. My opinions are fact based, yours are not. If you look at Aether's and my previous posts and actually read them unbiased, you will see this. Just like no matter how hard I try, Zulu will never be a legit opponent. Even if he claims a 400 win Vale Tudo record, I agree with you and look at it unbiased. That was a freak fight, plain and simple. Zulu has no REAL credentials. UNLIKE CC/Hunt/Choi/Lindland. There are no facts to back Zulu being a legit opponent.
Posted by telnights
Hong Man Choi - A freak show fight. He had 1 MMA fight before taking on what most people think to be the greatest HW ever. One hole fight and no back ground at all in any forum of a ground game. Its easier to learn striking than it is to learn a ground game. Its not something you can do over night takes years to become good at it. I wouldn't even say he was Ranked in the top 20-30 of HWs
Any CHAMPION fighter, particularly in K1, is not easy fight. Choi is as legit a fighter as Tim. Big guy who uses it to his advantage, and has a less than stellar sub defense (Choi also happens to be a trained Ssireum wrestler, so he's not completely 1-dimensional). If you think Tim is more dangerous then a K1 elite striker with EVEN MORE POWER, then your just delusional. Choi might not have been ranked but he is a TOUGH FIGHT for anyone. Fedor gave up MORE THAN 100 lbs!!!!! How F-in crazy are you to think that's not impressive. Lindland gave up what, 20 pounds to Fedor?! Not even close. With his weight advantage and striking (and some wrestling), I don't see too many HWs that can beat Choi, regardless of his ranking.
Posted by telnights
Matt Linland - Yes a Olympian at 167 pounds and only so because he sued his way on to the team. Claiming he lost because he was tripped by Keith Sieracki which is a foul in Greco-Roman Wrestling. Lot of people me included think if Keith Sieracki would have been in Linland's place we would have won the gold and not silver. Funny thing is Matt had bitten a guy in the first rounds of the Olympic try outs and should have been kicked out of the try outs all together. But all that aside Matt is a MW not HW . There is a hole weight class between the two. I'm sorry but their are weight class for a reason and a top rated HW Sambo wrestler will beat a top rated MW Greco-Roman wrestler all day long. Not even rank at HW because he isn't a HW he is a MW.
There are a ton of controversies in Olympics, what's your point? Mine stands - Lindland is an ELITE wrestler, among the best in the world. Never said he was top dog, and I'm sure he's not. But he's light years ahead of just about any MMA fighter. And by the way LINDLAND WEIGHED IN AT 212.5 LBS!!!!!!! Last time I checked MWs fought at 185. Once again, the facts speak for themselves. I think Lindland would beat a good number of HWs, maybe not top 10s, but I think he could be top 15, either way HE'S NO CAN! Not an easy fight for ANYONE. You get on Fedor's case for fight Lindland, who was A HEAVYWEIGHT at the time of the fight (look up "weight class" if you're not sure what that is), 20 lbs lighter (definitely a decent advantage), but give him no credit for facing Choi, at OVER 100lbs difference!!! What's wrong with you?!
Posted by telnights
Mark Hunt - This is the only fight I would say was close to being a chalange at all for Fedor in the past 3 years. But Hunts lack of a ground game doesnt make him very threatening for a Sambo Champ. He is a good striker but would not fair very well in the UFC under its rule set. This is because his lack of a ground game. He also was not even a top 15 HW at the time in most peoples rankings and is even futher down the list.
Close to challenge?! GG is top 10 after beating a bunch of cans (losing to Werdum, the only top fighter he faced) and happening to face CC when he was out of it (get real, any HW could have beat CC that night), and Hunt isn't? Sure CC had a broken foot, but Hunt still won (albeit by split). He's also an ELITE K1 striker and K1 CHAMPION! He would wreck a good number of top 15s. And what is this lack of a ground game you speak of? Getting subbed by an Olympic Judoka and accomplished fighter in Yoshida, and one of the best Sub fighters and UFC champ Barnett makes you lack a ground game? I guess Nog doesn't have a good ground game either, cause Barnett was about to sub him before the bell rang. Dont't be silly, Hunt's ground game was definitely sharp when he fought Fedor, he had him in trouble, even if only for a moment! Another TOUGH fight.
Posted by telnights
Mark Coleman - Good OLD Coleman! He was a great fighter at one time. Truly the man laid the ground work for GnP. But he was all but washed up when he faced Fedor. He was 43 years old when they fought and not a good 43 years old. His age has really caught up with Coleman. He wasn't even Ranked in the top 20-30 of HWs at the time.
Yeah, Coleman is old, but HE'S NOT A CAN!!! You make it seem Fedor just fights joke fights like Zulu. Zulu WAS HIS ONLY EASY FIGHT! Once again, Coleman wasn't ranked, but he's a former UFC HW and PRIDE GP Champ. ALWAYS dangerous, and puts up a fight. FAR FROM A CAN. Washed up, I wouldn't say. Past his prime, sure, but not the WORST comp either.
Posted by telnights
Wagner da Conceicao Martins - Another freak show fight for Fedor. When he fought Fedor he was big time he had 2 hole MMA fights. Yet another fighter not even ranked.
Yep. He does claim some crazy Vale Tudo record, but its probably BS. I agree with you here, this was an easy fight for Fedor (his only one).
Posted by telnights
Mirko Filipovic - WOW OMG a ranked fighter. Not knocking CC he is a good fighter but we seen how he faired under the UFC rule set.
No, not a ranked fighter. He was NUMBER 2 in the world! CC is one of the most skilled and accomplished fighters in MMA history. The fact that you don't recognize this reeks of ignorance. And no, we didn't see how he faired under the UFC rule set. We saw him demolish UNDEFEATED Eddie Sanchez WHILE UNMOTIVATED. Then he got caught by GG. He came back strong, but he wasn't used to BLATANT GROIN STRIKES being allowed, so I guess you have a point there. Don't know how he could have come in better prepared for those though. CC has THREE f-ing wins over UFC HW champ Barnett (you know, the guy that beat Randy and you still ridiculously rank him ahead of Barnett, and CC, and Barnett is over CC despite THREE victories - complete joke).
CC gave Fedor his toughest fight, BROKE HIS FACE, and had he not gassed, would have probably taken that fight. Fedor has gone on record saying CC was his hardest fight. Your just plain dumb if you think losing TWO fights make you no good. CC beat UFC champs in Barnett, Randleman, Coleman, beat this crap out of Nog before making a mistake (he's way ahead of where he was ground-training-wise since that fight), retired Igor, one of the most devastating strikers in MMA history, destroyed Aleks like no one has, beat Herring easily when he was top 5/top 10, beat Saku, the greatest MMA legend of all time, and annihilated Wandy to boot. Nothing to scoff at. Stellar fighter.
Posted by telnights
Tsuyoshi Kohsaka - Not the worst but not a top 20 either.
Makes sense. But he's a tough guy (not necessarily tough fight for Fedor), and always comes to fight.
Posted by telnights
So why is it Fedor is still ranked first because he hasn't done much in 3 1/2 years and we have HWs that have been activly fighting top HWs and winning. If it was any other fighter not fighting top competition for 3 1/2 years they would have dropped in the rankings by now.
It's YOUR OPINION he hasn't done much in 3.5 years. Myself, and most mma fans think he has. That's why he's still #1 in most rankings. Randy hasn't even been active for almost a year, much less fighting top comp (GG is not top comp anyway).
Posted by telnights
Now as far as my rankings go a head and try to tear them apart. I will even post them for you to make it easier.
HW
#1 Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira
#2 Randy "The Natural " Couture
#3 Tim "The Maine-iac" Sylvia
#4 Fedor Emelianenko
#5 Josh "The Babyface Assassin" Barnett
#6 Andrei "Pitbull" Arlovski
#7 Fabricio Werdum
#8 Gabriel "Napao" Gonzaga
#9 Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic
#10
Go ahead and try!? Like it's hard? You asked for it.
Nog got DEMOLISHED thrice by Fedor. AND he looked the worst we have seen him against both Herring and Tim, even though he won.
The fact that Randy is ranked even top 5 IS A COMPLETE JOKE. I understand he's a fan favorite, but rankings should represent SKILL + ACCOMPLISHMENTS. Who the hell has Randy beat to be ranked (much less ahead of Barnett, who has beaten Nog and Randy! WTF?!)? GG is not top 10 (1 fluke top 10 win doesn't count).
Tim is WAY BOTTOM 10 and had an injured back (hence his lackluster performance as compared to say Nog). Not to mention TIM is NOWHERE NEAR top 5. Who has he ever beaten besides Ricco? Early stoppage and gift decision against AA are BS wins.
Barnett is too low. HE BEAT NOG you're #1, and he beat Randy, you're #2. Completely bogus ranking.
AA is a little high as well. He's awesome, but not the most proven fighter. His biggest win in Werdum was VERY LACKLUSTER.
GG doesn't belong anywhere near a top 10.
CC is way better then most of the fighters on your list and beat Barnett x3. How fickle you are.
Posted by telnights
LHW
#1 Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
#2 Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell
#3 Forrest Griffin
#4 Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
#5 Lyoto Machida
#6 Wanderlei "The Axe Murderer" Silva
#7 Keith "The Dean of Mean" Jardine
#8 Rashad "Sugar" Evans
#9 Rameau "African Assassin" Sokoudjou
#10
Wandy destroyed Jackson x2. Shogun x1.
Chuck hasn't done SQUAT lately besides what was technically a draw with Wandy (and a career ender if it was under Pride rules where Wandy would have stomped his skull in).
Forrest HILARIOUS ranking. He beats a Shogun that couldn't train (any LHW would have beat Shogun that night), and all of a sudden he catapults into top 5s. Way bogus. Jardine knocked his block off and made him cry like a little girl, not to mention Jardine kicked Chuck's ass as well, and yet he's below them?! How does that make sense?
And why do you have Shogun so high in the rankings? According to your skewed logic with Fedor dropped to #4 while fighting tough fights, shouldn't Shogun be a lot lower? He hasn't won a fight in more than a year.
And Rashad hasn't done squat to be top 10 either. Who has he beaten? Bisping?
Posted by telnights
MW
#1 Anderson "The Spider" Silva
#2 Rich "Ace" Franklin
#3 Dan "Hollywood" Henderson
#4 Yushin "Thunder" Okami
#5 Paulo Filho
#6 Nathan "The Great" Marquardt
#7 Robbie "Ruthless" Lawler
#8 Yoshihiro Akiyama
I like Rich as much as the next guy, but he really hasn't beaten any ELITE fighters. Tanner and Quarry are decent, but far from the creme of the crop.
Henderson lost to Misaki. Okami is mostly unproven. Filho is undefeated unlike most rank ahead of him.
Posted by telnights
WW
#1 Georges "Rush " St. Pierre
#2 Jon Fitch
#3 Matt Hughes
#4 Josh "Kos" Koscheck
#5 Matt "The Terror" Serra
#6 Diego "Nightmare" Sanchez
#7 Thiago "Pitbull" Alves
#8 Jake Shields
#9 Karo "The Heat" Parisyan
#10 Carlos "Natural Born Killer" Condit
Fitch is good, but who has he beaten to justify being ranked ahead of Hughes, who has only lost to GSP in the last FOUR YEARS! All in all not bad WW rankings but whatever, its all opinions of who deserves the ranking and why.
I probably just wasted my time with all this, cause you seem too narrowminded, but whatever.
Last edited 5/18/08 1:32AM by ICSlegend
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Post #40 5/18/08 1:28:54AM
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Dennis Hallman?
Career record: 134-55
Season: 68-33 (#11)
Location: Oklahoma
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YAWN!!! FACT you don't have a clue what is a fact and opinion. Damn i don't even think you read what a fact and opinion are. One of these days you will get it maybe but not today. Now as far as my rankings you tried and it really shows how biased you are towards some fights. Its k we all are a little biased just your more so than others.
I'm just going to quote one little part of all the nonsense you posted.
Posted by ICSlegend
It's YOUR OPINION he hasn't done much in 3.5 years. Myself, and most mma fans think he has
Most MMA fans humm really is that why almost everyone I know (MMA writers included) have all said he needs to fight top competition if he wants to stay ranked 1#. Almost all agree he hasn't done that in 3 years.
Last edited 5/18/08 3:34AM by telnights
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4 total post edits
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Anxiously awaiting Scott "The Pit Bull" Ferrozzo's return.
The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose.
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Post #41 5/18/08 3:16:34AM
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ICSlegend
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-19
Season: 25-19 (#6516)
Location:
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Posted by telnights
YAWN!!! FACT you don't have a clue what is a fact and opinion. Damn i don't even think you read what a fact and opinion are. One of these days you will get it maybe but not today. Now as far as my rankings you tried and it really shows how biased you are towards some fights. Its k we all are a little biased just your more so than others.
Ditto. Maybe someday you'll figure out the difference.
I am more biased than others? Is this a fact?
Posted by telnights
I'm just going to quote one little part of all the nonsense you posted.
Posted by ICSlegend
It's YOUR OPINION he hasn't done much in 3.5 years. Myself, and most mma fans think he has
Most MMA fans humm really is that why almost everyone I know (MMA writers included) have all said he needs to fight top competition if he wants to stay ranked 1#. Almost all agree he hasn't done that in 3 years.
Yeah, I should have phrased that better.
MMA EXPERTS and many (not necessarily most or all) MMA FANS agree that Fedor is #1. That's why official rankings from sites like MMA Weekly, Sherdog, and even FightMatrix which is supposedly unbiased, all rank Fedor #1 (and FightMatrix by LARGE point difference over Nog).
But I forgot, you're smarter than everyone and only your views are correct, so I guess the absolute truth is only what YOU say it is and not experts, fans, or anyone else, despite the overwhelming amount of facts to the contrary.
Thanks for the
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Post #42 5/18/08 9:48:20AM
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Aether
In Full Mount
Career record: 82-59
Season: 24-21 (#6844)
Location:
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yeah it's funny that you're saying that but you still will never come up with a legitimate reason why hunt shouldn't have been considered top 10 at the time that he fought fedor. You'll never answer the question because you can't, you'll just keep claiming it's not true without any reasoning. No point in arguing with someone who claims opinions as fact and then turns around and accuses the people who are providing logical reasoning to support their opinions of doing what he's doing.
I'll just dig this up when he breaks tim sylvia's arm in 9 places to show you how wrong you are.
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Post #43 5/18/08 12:58:57PM
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Dennis Hallman?
Career record: 134-55
Season: 68-33 (#11)
Location: Oklahoma
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Ahh so now my views are better that everyone else wow I never said that, you and Aether were attacking my views because you said I didn't back it up with fact. You know we could do this all day long and you would still think your right because you quote some ones record or back ground and think thats fact on how he should beat other fights. Its called MMA math and it doesn't work. So what does that make saying a fighter is the best or better than another fighter, It makes it an opinion. We can quote records and back grounds all day long but you saying Fedor should still be #1 and has faced top fighters for the past 3 years is still just your opinion nothing more.
You know if you took the same fighters Fedor has fought the past 3 years and put it on Vera, Tim, or Randys record you would be saying that they haven't fought top competition. The only reason your claiming its top competition is because Fedor fought them.
Yes Fedor is still ranked first by many MMA sites but all have said the same thing if Fedor doesn't start fighting top level competition he would drop in the rankings. So basically admitting he hasn't been fighting top competition. The only reason he has stayed number one was because of his fights more than 3 years ago. But there are 2 types of ranking the here and now and the all time rankings. The here now most will agree Fedor hasn't done anything to even prove he should still be number one other than taking fights he knew he could win. Like I said earlier if it was anyone else they would have already dropped in the rankings by now. But yes Fedor should be ranked number one in the all time rankings but thats not what we are talking about.
Posted by Aether
yeah it's funny that you're saying that but you still will never come up with a legitimate reason why hunt shouldn't have been considered top 10 at the time that he fought fedor. You'll never answer the question because you can't, you'll just keep claiming it's not true without any reasoning. No point in arguing with someone who claims opinions as fact and then turns around and accuses the people who are providing logical reasoning to support their opinions of doing what he's doing.
I'll just dig this up when he breaks tim sylvia's arm in 9 places to show you how wrong you are.
I don't have to come up with a reason why Hunt shouldnt have been ranked a top 10 because he wasn't ranked in the top 10 and still isn't. You may think he should be a top 10 but that doesn't make him one. But let me guess its a fact he should be.....
You say I am claiming my opinions as fact is BS I have been saying this hole time that its just my opinion. But thats the hole problem you and ICSlegend seam to think if you quote a record that makes that fighters ranking and that you think he can beat another fighter a fact.
Last edited 5/18/08 3:16PM by telnights
Edit note/reason: n/a
_______________________________________
Anxiously awaiting Scott "The Pit Bull" Ferrozzo's return.
The only way to prove that you're a good sport is to lose.
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Post #44 5/18/08 3:14:45PM
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ICSlegend
MMA Regular
Career record: 25-19
Season: 25-19 (#6516)
Location:
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Well, you ASSume a lot, telnights.
If Tim beat CC, Hunt, Lindland, and Choi, hell F-ing yes I would rank him top 5. Ditto for Couture.
And I never said Fedor fought TOP fighters, I said he fought TOUGH comp. As in Hunt/Choi/Lindland being a tough fight and would pose HUGE problems for most HWs.
And you still won't comment on Couture or GG being ranked that high?
WTF is GG doing in top 10? All he did was beat a mentally out of form CC. That's ONE TOP 10 win. This is ridiculous. Hunt beat CC as well, but is not top 10? Opinions or not, that is dumb and hypocritical reasoning.
Randy has had TWO FIGHTS at HW in the last SIX YEARS. He was busy getting owned by Ricco and Barnett before that. Aside from his last 2 fights at HW he hasn't had a HW win in SEVEN years. And talk about being inactive. Randy hasn't fought in almost a WHOLE YEAR.
By this logic, Soko should have been ranked #1 after KOing Arona and Lil Nog in devastating fashion. If 2 wins can get you skyrocketed to top 3, then 2 IMPRESSIVE KOs over actually top ranked fighters should get you #1. Once again, ridiculous logic.
You're like a stork with his head in the sand, ignoring all these FACTS. And in my OPINION, that's dumb. Face the facts and own up to being a Couture and GG fanboy and Fedor hater who ranks accordingly.
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Post #45 5/18/08 6:22:48PM
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