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what hw has the best jiu jitsu?

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Jackelope

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As BJJ applies to MMA fights in the UFC-

Nog
Fedor (Sambo, Judo.. but still submission styles)
Mir
Werdum

Simply based on what they've accomplished. You can't place Gonzaga above Werdum IMO cuz Werdum just beat the living shit out of Gonzaga.

Mir only belongs on the list because he's a former UFC Heavyweight champion, and IMO is the most dangerous BJJ guy off his back. We haven't seen much of him from the top, though.

If you take BJJ and move it away from MMA and start looking at what they've accomplished outside Pride or the UFC well then you've got to consider Gracies and guys like Jeff Monson.

Post #16   2/4/08 1:22:56PM   

jiujitsufreak74

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When i answer these types of questions, i look at it as who implements the style best in MMA. in that case it is big nog hands down. although he is sloppy with stand up of late, nog is beautiful to watch on the ground and it is truly amazing and awe inspiring how such a big man can utilize JJ in his weight class. to see him throw submissions from his guard is thrilling to watch ad every fighter besides fedor knows that big nog's guard is not where you want to be. nog has shown great versatility by utilizing such techniques as the anaconda choke (my 2nd favorite submission), armbar, triangle choke, arm triangle, rear naked choke, guillotine, key locks and most recently the guillotine. in his first recognized professional fight he was able to get a submission due to a crucifix, i mean that says it all right there. he has brought JJ to its highest level and makes me proud to have an athlete of his caliber in the style i love.

while the answer to the question is obviously nog, it is the number two spot where i hit a rough patch. i would have to say it is a tie between mir and werdum. now the reason i have to go with mir here is because i am assuming he is back to the shape he was in before the accident where he was just schooling the UFC HWs on the lessons of JJ. he was constantly moving and was very mythotical in his guard throwing up submissions that caught his opponents off-guard (pun intended btw ). in his fight with lesnar i saw signs of his old self. he was keeping an active guard against a wrecking machine in lesnar and threw up two solid armbar attempts and eventually clinched the kneebar to win it. if he is back to his old self he is a fighter to look out for. werdum has always been a great JJ fighter in MMA who utilizes the triangle very well. he was able to choke out aleks which speaks to his skill and made GG scared of his guard. the fight against RZ where he got an armbar and a triangle at the same time was beautiful and werdum has shown such beauy in most of his fights. unfortunately he has not been able to grace the UFC with his submissions skills but the HWs should be wary of his JJ.

Now, i could not pick roger gracie because his JJ is relatively unknown in terms of how he uses it in MMA. GG has great credentials but never uses it in MMA for some reason. pe de pano only has one submission in MMA and monson doesn't really have a great guard as most of his submissions are chokes (if not all of them). AA is not JJ and he only has 3 submissions. AA, Fedor and Aleks are all disqualified form this because they are all sambo. so, i have to go with my rankings as such:

1) Nogueira

2) Werdum

2) Mir (mir and werdum are tied imo but i would give the slightest edge to werdum)

Post #17   2/4/08 2:41:39PM   

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Werdum has the best jiu jitsu, just not the best jiu jitsu from an mma sense. If you don't agree just check his BJJ track record...

Post #18   2/4/08 5:47:11PM   

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Posted by NatedawgThaM

Nog hands down. I don't think this is even competitive. Gonzaga is easily the second best but he has no heart. Nog does. He takes a beating every fight and still wins.

IT'S THE NOG ERA!!!! NOBODY WILL BEAT HIM!!!

Besides Fedor, who will never sign.



what makes gonzaga easily the second best? nog being the best is debatable and gonzaga having better jits than werdum or cruz is highly highly debatable...

Post #19   2/4/08 7:56:22PM   

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Posted by bayonetxwork

Werdum has the best jiu jitsu, just not the best jiu jitsu from an mma sense. If you don't agree just check his BJJ track record...



in a traditional BJJ setting it is clear to me that werdum is at the top...in the context of an mma match i pick big nog but i still think it is close. if you guys think frank mir is good off of his back you need to watch some footage of werdum schooling people from his back in bjj and adcc matches.

Post #20   2/4/08 7:59:56PM   

jiujitsufreak74

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I just want to hammer home certain points...

1) Fedor is not covered in this topic because he utilizes sambo not JJ.

2) GG has very good JJ credentials, but they don't compare with those of werdum. especially in the MMA sense he has not come close to showing his true potential and he looked scared of werdum's guard which should tell you something. GG doesn't make top 5 imo in terms of MMA usage. don't believe everything the UFC tries to shove down your throat.

3) Werdum is by far the most accomplished HW in terms of JJ outside of MMA. he holds such titles as the blue belt division Jiu Jitsu World Championship , Jiu Jitsu European Championship, Jiu Jitsu Pan-American Championship x3, black belt division Jiu Jitsu World Championship x 2 , and the 2007 ADCC World Championship which speaks to his current dominance in the art.

4) Big nog imo is the best JJ practitioner in terms of MMA utilization. read my above post for my reasoning.

5) Pe de Pano should not even be in this discussion in terms of MMA utilization because he only has one victory due to submission. his credentials outside are very impressive although his acclaimed tournament wins are very debatable outside of his Abu Dhabi 2000 win because i don't remember him winning what he vaguely described as "world champion of Jiu-Jitsu" 6 times.

Last edited 2/4/08 9:01PM server time by jiujitsufreak74
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Post #21   2/4/08 8:55:31PM   

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Bjj is one thing, and I would have to agree with Achilles about Gracie. As for who applies submission grappling best in MMA , I still beleive it's Fedor. He always slips any sub attempts, and used to pummel em with GnP. However since he broke his hand a couple of times, I beleive he just uses strikes and GnP to set up subs. I think he would still beat NOG, and also Werdum, Roger, Gonzaga, and anyone else known for their jits in MMA. Just my opinion of course

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Post #22   2/5/08 1:28:11AM   

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In MMA: Nog, no question
In pure JJ: Probably Roger Gracie

Post #23   2/5/08 2:26:34AM   

ikesmith

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fedor is not jiu jitsu he that means hes not the best i think he's the best at his subbmissions id have to say gracie

Post #24   2/6/08 2:45:29PM   

tylerlee123

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Nog, Mir, Gonzaga, and future UFC Heavyweight Contender Roger Gracie

Post #25   2/6/08 3:43:25PM   

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Nog
Werdum
Gracie
Cruz
Monson

my top 5

Post #26   2/6/08 4:19:54PM   

zephead

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I'm not seeing to much Jeff Monson love here. This is what he's done with BJJ.


Abu Dhabi Submission Grappling World Tournament Heavy Weight Division in 2005 and also won his division in the tournament in 1999. He is a multiple event winner at NAGA and Grapplers Quest and the Budweiser Invitational


He's also won 58% of his MMA fights by submission

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Post #27   2/6/08 5:10:28PM   

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You got to go with Gracie, His family did kind of invent BJJ

Post #28   11/19/08 5:14:19PM   

madmarck

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Straight BJJ Roger Graice hands down. Multiple medals in both ADCC and Mundials in mutiple weight divisions.

Has for MMA BJJ Nog. Doesnt do any fancy crap. Just straight plain ordinary armbars. But he does em on the best guys.

Post #29   11/20/08 12:42:21PM   

jiujitsufreak74

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a lot of JJ topics being brought back up

Last edited 11/20/08 2:38PM server time by jiujitsufreak74
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Post #30   11/20/08 2:35:34PM   
 
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