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ac_gi

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Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by ac_gi

The reason strikers are more successful is because they are generally the more talented. I've trained in Kickboxing and Jiu-jitsu... you can teach someone to apply an armbar like (insert ground specialist here), you can't teach someone to throw a powerful punch with precision and accuracy like Chuck. There is a reason that strikers and GnP guys are ruling MMA.

The striker learns submission and takedown defense, then lets the bombs fly.

Let the flaming begin



No reason to flame anyone,I just disagree.



I guess I'm still in Sherdog mode!

Post #16   2/17/07 12:41:53AM   

hippysmacker

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LOL, they say it takes 90 days to break a bad habit

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Post #17   2/17/07 12:49:19AM   

ac_gi

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Posted by ac_gi

... I've trained in Kickboxing and Jiu-jitsu...


Clarification,
I, in no way think I'm a no-it-all. First and foremost I'm a fan and wannabe.

Post #18   2/17/07 12:55:50AM   

JunCTion

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Posted by hippysmacker

I wouldn't say it's just UFC fans either. Most new fans to MMA don't have the technical knowledge to appreciate some of the finer point's of grappling. Just give them time. I understand your fears. I share them, and I don't think they are groundless. However, it's better to help educate new fans than to flame them. I'm not in anyway specifically targeting you or anyone with this observation.It's just something I've observed throughout the longtime , diehard, MMA community. As Aceprone posted a while back, Japanese fan's come from a culture rich in warrior tradition's, where their heroes are samurais. In America, western gunslinger's are as much heroes too us as anyone in our history . It will help our sport in the long run to just be patient and help educate IMO.



ufc is what i saw first and i liked the strikers and saw a lot more fights with striker against striker and that was entertaining to me. when i saw a ground agaist striker fight i wasn't thrilled cause a lot of ground guys that can't strike seem to stall. but when i started watching pride they had a lot of grappler against grappler fights and that opened my eyes (plus pride not letting them stall). watching the gracies, sakuraba, newton, etc. and the things they do on the ground were awsome (my favorite at the time being Renzo / Newton) i understand that a lot of people say styles make fights and dana likes to put on a lot of style / style fights to see which one prevails and it's ok naw that i understand more (but still wish they had the yellow card for stalling) but i really do like the fights with striker / striker & grappler / grappler. i did used to hate ground fighting but now i love it.

Post #19   2/17/07 1:20:42AM   

Svartorm

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Posted by ac_gi

The reason strikers are more successful is because they are generally the more talented.



I disagree on that, but bare with me, as this might take a second and I'm kind of drunk right now.

Combat is more or less universal, in that it has two fundimentals, those being offense and defense. This applies to both large scale warfare and single combat, and in both situations, there will be a dominate force. After the advent of rifles, warfare switched to being defensive, as it became too difficult to attack entrenched troops without taking a disproportionate number of casualties. This became ever worse when the machinegun was invented, and it primarily why WW1 was so bloody. WW2 saw the tank come into play heavily, and the advent of better artillary, which changed warfare back to being offensive. The advent of new weapons and tactics will eventually change this back again.

MMA is similar in that new styles and weapons are invented all the time, and it changes the way fights are conducted. The reason strikers are dominating right now is because takedown defense is faster than actual takedowns. Its too difficult for groundfighters to get excellent strikers with excellent takedown defense on the ground, and those guys are winning right now. I think the next logical step to swing things back towards the grapplers is for guys with great clinch fighting and takedowns from clinch to come in and be able to impose their will.

Once again, if this makes no sense, its because I'm drunk.

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Post #20   2/17/07 3:09:51AM   

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Good post. Randy was the best at the clinch and takedown. However, I fear he has lost a step. It's the exact reason I think Lindland( who's style is very similiar) will beat A. Silva if they ever fight. Hendo seems to have gotten in his head that he is a standup fighter a lot lately, which is why I think he lost to Misaki. Being able to strike is not the same as being a striker in my book. It's also why Hughes got dismantled so badly IMO. GSP might have beat him anyway, but to only go for 2 takedown's when your clearly losing on the feet was ludicrous to me.

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Post #21   2/17/07 3:20:40AM   

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I agree about Hendo. He did a lot better when he was a great wrestler with a killer right hand, as opposed to standing with people he really shouldn't. Thats why I think hes going to be stopped by Wandy. He'll try to stand with him when he should be more concerned with takedowns and GnP.

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Post #22   2/17/07 3:24:09AM   

aceprone

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Posted by Svartorm


Posted by ac_gi

The reason strikers are more successful is because they are generally the more talented.



I disagree on that, but bare with me, as this might take a second and I'm kind of drunk right now.

Combat is more or less universal, in that it has two fundimentals, those being offense and defense. This applies to both large scale warfare and single combat, and in both situations, there will be a dominate force. After the advent of rifles, warfare switched to being defensive, as it became too difficult to attack entrenched troops without taking a disproportionate number of casualties. This became ever worse when the machinegun was invented, and it primarily why WW1 was so bloody. WW2 saw the tank come into play heavily, and the advent of better artillary, which changed warfare back to being offensive. The advent of new weapons and tactics will eventually change this back again.

MMA is similar in that new styles and weapons are invented all the time, and it changes the way fights are conducted. The reason strikers are dominating right now is because takedown defense is faster than actual takedowns. Its too difficult for groundfighters to get excellent strikers with excellent takedown defense on the ground, and those guys are winning right now. I think the next logical step to swing things back towards the grapplers is for guys with great clinch fighting and takedowns from clinch to come in and be able to impose their will.

Once again, if this makes no sense, its because I'm drunk.



Totally agreed. It's all in the evolution of the sport. As people start following the progression of their favorit fighters and hopefully it will also educate the public at the same time. But I do think there will always be fighters who are better at a different aspects of the game the others. I think that's natural. For instance in basketball, it's very rare when there's a player who can play any position. Even in baseball, or whatever. People will always ethier be better on the ground then standing, or vise versa. But hopefully in the future being "weaker" fighter in a different area then another fighter, will be nowhere compared to how Bisping"s stand up is better then Schafers'. But more fights in the future will have more of an connection to the lines of how Rich is compared to Anderson, on the feet or ground.

Post #23   2/17/07 3:32:05AM   

crimethinc

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I am one of those guys who can't stand watching fights with people who aren't into MMA. Whenever I hear people complaining that fighters are just "dancing" around each other or "hugging" on the ground it seriously makes me want to fight. But as far as the casual MMA fans perception of a fight it's pretty much what's to be expected.

A lot of new fans haven't watched MMA at all much less through it's evolution through Zuffa. The only thing they know is that this is the cage-fighting that used to be banned in most states because guys would get there teeth knocked out. And in all fairness it was. The UFC is a young company and it has changed drastically in a very short time. It has become highly marketable and thanks to spike tv it sky-rocketed into the mainstream.

We can all sing to the skies about how us die-hard fans aren't elititsts. But in a sense we are. And that's not a bad thing. Anytime something that was, for lack of a better word, "underground" goes mainstream it's followers are going to take pride in that they were there before it was big. And since we've been following it for years we pretty much know the ins and outs of the sport. You ask me to describe MMA to someone who isn't a fan I will say it's a combination of various striking arts and submission wrestling arts etc. You ask a new fan to describe MMA they may just some it up like streetfighting, because that's what it used to be essentially and that's the only word they can use to describe it because they don't know what Muay Thai or Jiu-Jitsu even are.

As far as the striking vs. grappling debate, that's a cultural thing. We are a nation whose national past-time in combat sports is boxing. 10 years ago if someone says they are a professional fighter you automatically assume they mean boxer. We don't even watch real wrestling, we watch fake wrestling. To a lot of people jiu-jitsu sounds like a fighting technique in the way that ninjitsu is a fighting technique. So you can't expect someone who has no idea what grappling is much less jiu-jitsu to see a guy setting up for any type of submission and not think that they are just rolling around trying to hold each other down.

Until people understand what the "Mixed" part in MMA stands for they are always going to want to see a "fight". Which in there minds is two guys punching each other until one of them falls down. Is the fan reaction going to influence the fighters to drop one of the most dangerous weapons in the sport and start training 100% Muay Thai, no. Once the sport and it's new fans have a longer relationship people will understand the various aspects of the sport. But you can't throw someone, whose only exposure to fighting is a punching contest, in the heat of a jiu-jitsu war and expect them to know what the hell they are looking at. The people love MMA will understand and seek out more, the people who don't understand MMA will hop off to the next bandwagon that rolls by. We are at the current height of MMA popularity and this allows there to be such a thing as a casual fan, so give it time and it will all blow over.

Post #24   2/17/07 6:01:51AM   
 
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