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Another WWE Wrestler Joining MMA

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Posted by TNunley

I just want to say, if this guy wants to start training MMA, that's great. It shows he has heart and a competitive spirit.

To the guys talking about how professional wrestlers are tougher than MMA fighters is like comparing apples to oranges. I will agree that these guys have probably been dealt a lot more punishment as far as slams go than the average MMA fighter, and possibly more than most professional MMA fighters. The fact of the matter though is that being punched and kicked in the face and body is a little bit different than being slammed. Hell even being slammed in MMA is different than being slammed in the WWE.

Slams in the WWE are choreographed and scripted... not saying their bodies don't take punishment, because they obviously do. The difference is, in WWE you are being slammed as part of the show, and in MMA (say against someone like Rampage) you are being slammed to be hurt. A slam is completely different in MMA than WWE. In WWE, they are trying to do minimal damage to put on a better show, in MMA they are trying to do maximum damage to avoid being damaged themselves. Not to mention, even if they spent their entire careers slamming people in WWE, it would be different than MMA. No MMA fighter is going to assist you in slamming them. Irregardless, unless you face a fighter like Rampage the slams probably will not be a big deal. So to argue about which slam is worse is pointless anyway.

There are no grazing accidental punches that occur in WWE that are even comparable to a devastating combo of looping punches by Liddel, or a High kick to the neck by Cro Cop a fighter might experience in MMA. So to act as though a WWE wrestler transitioning into MMA is prepared for similar punishment without extensive amounts of sparring is just crazy.

Either way, I'll say it again... I think it's cool that some of these guys are transitioning over to MMA. I don't feel just because they were top dogs in the WWE, that they could immediately transition into an MMA world champion. So it doesn't bother me that they transition them, and I'd be open to watching them. The biggest part of what bothers me though is Lesnar. Some guys spend a better majority of their prime fighting their way into the UFC. Lesnar gets into the UFC after just 1 fight in K-1. That's what bothers me about the match-up. What new up and comer probably deserved it more than he did... just because he is a WWE celebrity.

I'm not arguing the skills these guys probably have in wrestling, because I'm sure they are great. I'm just arguing a point someone tried to make about how these guys are tougher than top professional MMA fighters.



Sorry bud, you are usually spot on, but you couldnt be more wrong... And unless you have been involved with wrestling, whether it be behind the scenes or training in the ring, those of us who have could talk until we are blue in the face, and you guys wouldnt get it.

Dont worry, its expected.

Since every person is different, theres no way to compare who is tougher. In fact, doing so would be ridiculous. But to claim that a person is tougher, just because of their chosen profession... Its really your preference of MMA over wrestling, rather than an objective look at both.

There are insanely tough, agile, powerful athletes in both mediums of entertainment. Theres really no need to get your panties in a bunch when both can exist quite easily.

Hell, if an accountant wanted to train in MMA, would you shit on him too? Then, why the wrestlers?

By the way, Brock being booked in a main event for his first UFC fight is in no way his fault. So enough blaming him, and hoping he gets injured... He signed the contract they offered him, bottom line. You wouldve too.

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Post #61   1/30/08 2:30:05PM   

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Waiting for a tag- team match with these two guys. It is another brilliant plan from Dana White to try and steal the WWE audience to the UFC. They are working every angle, why not the WWE. They have loyal fans who pay twice as much to watch a staged match, wouldn't they rather watch a real match with real blood and broken bones. Maybe or maybe not, does anyone realize that the only way the WWE and former WWF have done so good was by making it a man soap opera show, with guys beating themselves with chairs and ladders. I used to love watching the WWF rooting for the good guys, and they would always in the end draw the strength from the crowd to body slam the 500lb guy and win 1,2,3.

I think the WWE is a different kind of fan and they love the drama and booing the bad guy for his dirty tricks and cheering the good guy for his super human strength at times. I think after the WWE fans watch how MMA fights move opposed to WWE most of them will tune out, and go back to there drama action opera.

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Post #62   1/30/08 2:49:23PM   

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Posted by rcg916


Posted by TNunley

I just want to say, if this guy wants to start training MMA, that's great. It shows he has heart and a competitive spirit.

To the guys talking about how professional wrestlers are tougher than MMA fighters is like comparing apples to oranges. I will agree that these guys have probably been dealt a lot more punishment as far as slams go than the average MMA fighter, and possibly more than most professional MMA fighters. The fact of the matter though is that being punched and kicked in the face and body is a little bit different than being slammed. Hell even being slammed in MMA is different than being slammed in the WWE.

Slams in the WWE are choreographed and scripted... not saying their bodies don't take punishment, because they obviously do. The difference is, in WWE you are being slammed as part of the show, and in MMA (say against someone like Rampage) you are being slammed to be hurt. A slam is completely different in MMA than WWE. In WWE, they are trying to do minimal damage to put on a better show, in MMA they are trying to do maximum damage to avoid being damaged themselves. Not to mention, even if they spent their entire careers slamming people in WWE, it would be different than MMA. No MMA fighter is going to assist you in slamming them. Irregardless, unless you face a fighter like Rampage the slams probably will not be a big deal. So to argue about which slam is worse is pointless anyway.

There are no grazing accidental punches that occur in WWE that are even comparable to a devastating combo of looping punches by Liddel, or a High kick to the neck by Cro Cop a fighter might experience in MMA. So to act as though a WWE wrestler transitioning into MMA is prepared for similar punishment without extensive amounts of sparring is just crazy.

Either way, I'll say it again... I think it's cool that some of these guys are transitioning over to MMA. I don't feel just because they were top dogs in the WWE, that they could immediately transition into an MMA world champion. So it doesn't bother me that they transition them, and I'd be open to watching them. The biggest part of what bothers me though is Lesnar. Some guys spend a better majority of their prime fighting their way into the UFC. Lesnar gets into the UFC after just 1 fight in K-1. That's what bothers me about the match-up. What new up and comer probably deserved it more than he did... just because he is a WWE celebrity.

I'm not arguing the skills these guys probably have in wrestling, because I'm sure they are great. I'm just arguing a point someone tried to make about how these guys are tougher than top professional MMA fighters.



Sorry bud, you are usually spot on, but you couldnt be more wrong... And unless you have been involved with wrestling, whether it be behind the scenes or training in the ring, those of us who have could talk until we are blue in the face, and you guys wouldnt get it.

Dont worry, its expected.

Since every person is different, theres no way to compare who is tougher. In fact, doing so would be ridiculous. But to claim that a person is tougher, just because of their chosen profession... Its really your preference of MMA over wrestling, rather than an objective look at both.

There are insanely tough, agile, powerful athletes in both mediums of entertainment. Theres really no need to get your panties in a bunch when both can exist quite easily.

Hell, if an accountant wanted to train in MMA, would you shit on him too? Then, why the wrestlers?

By the way, Brock being booked in a main event for his first UFC fight is in no way his fault. So enough blaming him, and hoping he gets injured... He signed the contract they offered him, bottom line. You wouldve too.



Can you please call pro wrestling just that and not refer to it as wrestling. It makes you statements very confusing for some people. Pro Wrestling is not the next step in a wrestlers career. The 2 have nothing in common other than the name.

He also didn't blame Brock for being the main event he is just saying he thinks Brock doesn't deserve to be there just because he was a pro wrestler. (TNunley if i'm puting words in your mouth correct me if I'm worng)

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Post #63   1/30/08 5:56:58PM   

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i think the wrestles should stay in the wwe, there just big and going to be hoping on the big ko, i would love them to go against a smart fighter and knock them out or put them on there back and watch them freak out when they get a real cut above the eye brow instead of pouring fake blood on themself they are fake might as well throw a acter in the cage

Post #64   1/30/08 7:01:53PM   

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Svartom could back me up on this,as he trained at it for a while . I never trained to be one, but my big brother' s( the organization where you get a mentor) little brother was Buzz tytler. He could barely walk sometimes after a show , and he actually told me not to want to be one. Svartom once told me he got more injuries from taking bumps for a year, than in all of his no holds barred fights combined. I beleive it to be a very tough life, and i wouldn't want to do it. i beleive MMA is actually safer, fro your long term health, but not your immediate one. It's one thing to be a really tough guy who can take, bumps 5 days a week 50 weeks a year. It;s another to get really punched,elbowed, kneed, and kicked by somebody who actually trying to hurt you. They aren't in the match together, like in Pro wrestling. They are trying to hurt and beat each other, as their is no predetermined winner. This doesn't mean that Lesnar/Lashley can't be great MMA fighter's or that they are not great collegiate wrestlers. That doesn't mean that that strong wrestling base doesn't give them a leg up on other guys coming into the sport who don't have it. Size/strength, and accomplishments in their previous sport being equal : I will take a great wrestling MMA noob, over a great striking MMa noob in a real fight every time. They are also plenty of BJJ guys who come into MMA , who have problems I suspect many guys in Pro wrestling would have coming into MMA . Getting punched in the face for one. You see some of the new MMA. jits guys looking a little bewildered when they are getting hit in the face. It's a whole different sport, with a whole different demand on your will and body. I was watching the Jean Silva/Tommy Speers fight the other night on VS. Mir was commentating and kept going on and on about how Speers needed to avoid the ground with Silva, Then when they got there Tommy KOed him. I am not saying this will happen to either Lashely/Lesanr .For all I know they both could have iron wills and chins. I am saying that if a lot of guys came over from pro wrestling , they might not do so well when they are actually reallt being hit repeatedly. I have nothing against Lashley , as I know very little about him, and never heard of him until this thread. if he's got the stuff, more power to him. I do however dislike Lesnar due to his repeated comments I deem arrogant, and hope Mir beats him badly. If he came back with a more respectful attitude I would have no problem embracing him. Lesnar may have all the potential/physical attributes in the world, but until I see him overcome adversity in the Octagon a few times, i won't be sold. I will end with this. Whether he acts arrogant or not, if Lesnar is really putting in the work , is training with the right guys, can take some shots, and really wants to do this, he could do some serious damage.

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Post #65   1/31/08 12:10:43AM   

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Posted by rcg916


Posted by TNunley

I just want to say, if this guy wants to start training MMA, that's great. It shows he has heart and a competitive spirit.

To the guys talking about how professional wrestlers are tougher than MMA fighters is like comparing apples to oranges. I will agree that these guys have probably been dealt a lot more punishment as far as slams go than the average MMA fighter, and possibly more than most professional MMA fighters. The fact of the matter though is that being punched and kicked in the face and body is a little bit different than being slammed. Hell even being slammed in MMA is different than being slammed in the WWE.

Slams in the WWE are choreographed and scripted... not saying their bodies don't take punishment, because they obviously do. The difference is, in WWE you are being slammed as part of the show, and in MMA (say against someone like Rampage) you are being slammed to be hurt. A slam is completely different in MMA than WWE. In WWE, they are trying to do minimal damage to put on a better show, in MMA they are trying to do maximum damage to avoid being damaged themselves. Not to mention, even if they spent their entire careers slamming people in WWE, it would be different than MMA. No MMA fighter is going to assist you in slamming them. Irregardless, unless you face a fighter like Rampage the slams probably will not be a big deal. So to argue about which slam is worse is pointless anyway.

There are no grazing accidental punches that occur in WWE that are even comparable to a devastating combo of looping punches by Liddel, or a High kick to the neck by Cro Cop a fighter might experience in MMA. So to act as though a WWE wrestler transitioning into MMA is prepared for similar punishment without extensive amounts of sparring is just crazy.

Either way, I'll say it again... I think it's cool that some of these guys are transitioning over to MMA. I don't feel just because they were top dogs in the WWE, that they could immediately transition into an MMA world champion. So it doesn't bother me that they transition them, and I'd be open to watching them. The biggest part of what bothers me though is Lesnar. Some guys spend a better majority of their prime fighting their way into the UFC. Lesnar gets into the UFC after just 1 fight in K-1. That's what bothers me about the match-up. What new up and comer probably deserved it more than he did... just because he is a WWE celebrity.

I'm not arguing the skills these guys probably have in wrestling, because I'm sure they are great. I'm just arguing a point someone tried to make about how these guys are tougher than top professional MMA fighters.



Sorry bud, you are usually spot on, but you couldnt be more wrong... And unless you have been involved with wrestling, whether it be behind the scenes or training in the ring, those of us who have could talk until we are blue in the face, and you guys wouldnt get it.

Dont worry, its expected.

Since every person is different, theres no way to compare who is tougher. In fact, doing so would be ridiculous. But to claim that a person is tougher, just because of their chosen profession... Its really your preference of MMA over wrestling, rather than an objective look at both.

There are insanely tough, agile, powerful athletes in both mediums of entertainment. Theres really no need to get your panties in a bunch when both can exist quite easily.

Hell, if an accountant wanted to train in MMA, would you shit on him too? Then, why the wrestlers?

By the way, Brock being booked in a main event for his first UFC fight is in no way his fault. So enough blaming him, and hoping he gets injured... He signed the contract they offered him, bottom line. You wouldve too.



i don't see where in his post he says one is tougher than the other. it seems he is taking a very respectable view on this topic and gave respect to the pro wrestlers for there athleticism and punishment tolerance. all he did was point out the difference between MMA and pro wrestling and say that just because you are a pro wrestler doesn't warrant any success in MMA. i also think his point on brock is very valid. if brock wasn't a high profile name would he get in even if he still had the same wrestling credentials? no. he is saying that brock is taking someone else's ticket to the ufc using publicity rather than skill in MMA. its not his fault but it is still a reality. he actually says the antithesis of hating on wrestlers by voicing his opinion that they are in fact well trained athletes and he seemed pretty interested in how they do. he never bashes pro wrestling imo and all he did was just point out the difference. i just can't see where his post could have angered you because he didn't blame brock but rather the system for signing him and he actually respected pro wrestling rather well imo.

Post #66   1/31/08 12:27:59AM   

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Posted by jiujitsufreak74

i don't see where in his post he says one is tougher than the other. it seems he is taking a very respectable view on this topic and gave respect to the pro wrestlers for there athleticism and punishment tolerance. all he did was point out the difference between MMA and pro wrestling and say that just because you are a pro wrestler doesn't warrant any success in MMA. i also think his point on brock is very valid. if brock wasn't a high profile name would he get in even if he still had the same wrestling credentials? no. he is saying that brock is taking someone else's ticket to the ufc using publicity rather than skill in MMA. its not his fault but it is still a reality. he actually says the antithesis of hating on wrestlers by voicing his opinion that they are in fact well trained athletes and he seemed pretty interested in how they do. he never bashes pro wrestling imo and all he did was just point out the difference. i just can't see where his post could have angered you because he didn't blame brock but rather the system for signing him and he actually respected pro wrestling rather well imo.



Didnt anger me one bit man...

I disagreed with his "slams" point, but thats okay... I was just trying to get the immature ones to open their eyes a little and realize that these guys take a pounding. Period.

In fact most of this was generality. It wasnt necessarily aimed at him... The initial line, yeah. But after that, I was just talking... If you havent noticed, Pro Wrestling is the new cool bashing subject, and not everyone can debate like Nunley. He's the minority, as Ive spent a week trying to get people to understand that people involved in wrestling feel disrespected by the comments they make, especially when they speak without facts... But all I get is BS talked back to me, so its not worth it... You might want to read my post again, because I just did, and cant see where you think I was mad.

In my defense, his last statement basically says that Brock took the spot of a more deserved up and comer... Without splitting hairs, thats essentially what he is saying... And the "hope he gets injured" is a common theme among Lesnar threads, search them... I wasnt exactly making stuff up.


Posted by telnights

Pro Wrestling is not the next step in a wrestlers career.




Hate to break it to you, but a lot of times it is. Between PRO (better?) Wrestling and MMA, there arent too many more endeavors that can use their acquired skillset. Not saying everyone does... But there sure are more and more each year...

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Post #67   1/31/08 1:31:15AM   

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Post #68   1/31/08 1:50:53AM   

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Posted by rcg916

Posted by telnights

Pro Wrestling is not the next step in a wrestlers career.




Hate to break it to you, but a lot of times it is. Between PRO (better?) Wrestling and MMA, there arent too many more endeavors that can use their acquired skillset. Not saying everyone does... But there sure are more and more each year...



Not breaking anything to me. If you read my early post you will see what I'm saying.


Posted by telnights
I think some people are confused about the difference from Wrestling and PRO Wrestling. There are 3 main types of Wrestling Sombo, Greco-Roman, and Freestyle. Some people think there is some type of connection between PRO wrestling and wrestling when there is not. I was a 2 time state champ and collegiate wrestler out of Oklahoma State University for 2 years. I spent most of my life wrestling and I promise you there is no connection between PRO wrestling and wrestling other than the name.



As you can see I have a back ground in wrestling. But pro wrestling uses nothing from my skill set I have learned as a wrestler other than my work ethic and knowing how to build muscle and maybe rolling around with hefty guys. There are 2 choices for a wrestler once there done at the collegiate level and thats MMA or coaching. Those are the only 2 things that uses a wrestlers skill set. Trust me I know this first hand. Most of my close friends are x-collegiate wrestlers also and will tell you the same thing I'm saying here. They are totally 2 different things.

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Post #69   1/31/08 2:53:53AM   

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First off, I had wanted to be a pro-wrestler since I was 5 years old, worked at it, and eventually started wrestling when I turned 17. I lasted a little over a year, as it was physically brutal, paid next to nothing (I once made $17 for a match), and had no real future unless you juiced up and were willing to live out of your car for a year or so at a time.

A few things:

1. I got more injured in that year of wrestling then in 9 amateur NHB bouts. No, you don't take real punches to the face, but pretty much everything else is legit. That includes taking chairs over the head. Say what you will about pro-wrestling, but you have to be a tough bastard to make it through a match and be able to walk out of the ring.

2. The blood is real. You don't "pour fake blood on yourself" during a match. You take a box cutter blade and jam it into your forehead until you hit your skull, and drag it about a half inch. Headwounds bleed like crazy and if you do it fast, it looks like the chairshot, ringpost or whatever it was actually did it. Then you're not only getting the shit kicked out of your, but you're losing blood and can't see anymore. Not fun.

3. To those who say pro-wrestling and wrestling have nothing in common, you're wrong. Catch wrestling, which is basically American submission grappling, was the original pro-wrestling. It evolved over time because people would get bored by 3 hour matches, which were rather common in wrestling, so they started scripting matches, which were real, but had a pre-determined winner. It went from there, but some of the old school wrestlers like "Killer" Kowalski, Lou Thesz, and Frank Gotch would have eaten most MMA fighters alive in their primes. "Killer" Kowalski was actually famous for wrestling at such a torid pace, he'd make guys vomit during the match. Its a different animal than whats out their now, but pro-wrestlers are in fact athletes.

4. Pro-wrestling in itself does NOT help you in MMA one bit. In fact, the biggest problem I had going into actually fighting was that I didn't block or dodge punches anymore. You get so used to watching them come in at you, you don't think to block anymore. It took a broken nose and getting rocked a few times before I remembered I should get the hell out of the way of fists flying at me. The thing that can be said for it is that you develop a work ethic, get used to training and fighting hurt, and develop a huge pain tolerance. That and the sometimes overlooked aspect of being in front of a crowd, which can cause new fighters problems.

So, in closing, if Lashley wants to fight, so be it. Best of luck to him, but don't dismiss the guy just because hes a pro-wrestler. There are more than a few great MMA fighters that got their start there or have tried their hand at it in their time.

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Post #70   1/31/08 3:11:35AM   

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Posted by telnights
There are 2 choices for a wrestler once there done at the collegiate level and thats MMA or coaching. Those are the only 2 things that uses a wrestlers skill set. Trust me I know this first hand. Most of my close friends are x-collegiate wrestlers also and will tell you the same thing I'm saying here. They are totally 2 different things.



Sort of off-topic, but if you have a decent amateur wrestling background, you can generally land some decent security jobs, more so than someone with a martial arts background. Its more "real" than karate to employers and it shows you can subdue someone without actually hurting them, which is important in the legal realm.

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Post #71   1/31/08 3:17:51AM   

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This has gone from being an interesting announcement to a debate over whether or not pro wresters are athletes...there is no doubt that they are.

There is NO connection between "amateur" wrestling and "pro" wrestling TECHNIQUE-wise...yes, the early pro wrestling evolved into what you see today (a crying shame, IMO) but that is where the connection stops.

Do I think Lashley/Lesnar could do well in MMA? Possibly, yes. But I don't think that being a former pro wrestler is going to give them an advantage, and I also think that they both need more time before anyone can expect them to contend anywhere. Lesnar was thrown a bone in his first match; I'll be watching Saturday just to see the look on his face when he realizes he can't jump out the Octagon and grab Joe Rogan's folding chair.

Post #72   1/31/08 3:19:57AM   

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Posted by telnights


Posted by rcg916

Posted by telnights

Pro Wrestling is not the next step in a wrestlers career.




Hate to break it to you, but a lot of times it is. Between PRO (better?) Wrestling and MMA, there arent too many more endeavors that can use their acquired skillset. Not saying everyone does... But there sure are more and more each year...



Not breaking anything to me. If you read my early post you will see what I'm saying.


Posted by telnights
I think some people are confused about the difference from Wrestling and PRO Wrestling. There are 3 main types of Wrestling Sombo, Greco-Roman, and Freestyle. Some people think there is some type of connection between PRO wrestling and wrestling when there is not. I was a 2 time state champ and collegiate wrestler out of Oklahoma State University for 2 years. I spent most of my life wrestling and I promise you there is no connection between PRO wrestling and wrestling other than the name.



As you can see I have a back ground in wrestling. But pro wrestling uses nothing from my skill set I have learned as a wrestler other than my work ethic and knowing how to build muscle and maybe rolling around with hefty guys. There are 2 choices for a wrestler once there done at the collegiate level and thats MMA or coaching. Those are the only 2 things that uses a wrestlers skill set. Trust me I know this first hand. Most of my close friends are x-collegiate wrestlers also and will tell you the same thing I'm saying here. They are totally 2 different things.



Okay man, youre right. Because Im not speaking from experience or anything...


Posted by jhj07

There is NO connection between "amateur" wrestling and "pro" wrestling TECHNIQUE-wise...



Sorry man, that is just untrue. Many pro wrestlers incorporate mat work into their matches, and use plenty of technique that is from traditional wrestling.

Its not like Im making this stuff up, I have experience in both.

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Post #73   1/31/08 3:21:05AM   

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Posted by Svartorm
3. To those who say pro-wrestling and wrestling have nothing in common, you're wrong. Catch wrestling, which is basically American submission grappling, was the original pro-wrestling. It evolved over time because people would get bored by 3 hour matches, which were rather common in wrestling, so they started scripting matches, which were real, but had a pre-determined winner. It went from there, but some of the old school wrestlers like "Killer" Kowalski, Lou Thesz, and Frank Gotch would have eaten most MMA fighters alive in their primes. "Killer" Kowalski was actually famous for wrestling at such a torid pace, he'd make guys vomit during the match. Its a different animal than whats out their now, but pro-wrestlers are in fact athletes.



Todays pro wrestling truly has nothing in common with wrestling. Your speaking of pro wrestlings roots which todays pro wrestling really has nothing in common with catch wrestling either. But if we were speaking of the past then yes your right but something tells me we were talking about the here and now. If we want to go back I can relate wrestling to every kind of grappling there is or ever was just about. I know Pro Wrestling has it true roots but its not even a shadow of what it once was.

Last edited 1/31/08 3:41AM server time by telnights
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Post #74   1/31/08 3:40:55AM   

Svartorm

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Posted by jhj07
Do I think Lashley/Lesnar could do well in MMA? Possibly, yes. But I don't think that being a former pro wrestler is going to give them an advantage, and I also think that they both need more time before anyone can expect them to contend anywhere. Lesnar was thrown a bone in his first match; I'll be watching Saturday just to see the look on his face when he realizes he can't jump out the Octagon and grab Joe Rogan's folding chair.



Kim isn't a "bone" dude. The guy was an Olympic silver medalist in judo. His record sucks, but its because his promotion likes to feed the poor guy to the lions every chance they get, but he has legitmate skills, and was a good test for someones first fight.

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Post #75   1/31/08 4:20:38AM   
 
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