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Points suggestion for stoppages

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Kpro

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I realize we base this s**t off of the official decisions as far as point purposes for the season.

But am I the only one who gets frustrated when I don't get points because of:

TKO (Submission)
Submission (Strikes)

Who gives a s**t if they passed out before tapping or tapped while being punched.

I think the drop down menu in the reason for fight stoppage should be SUBMISSION or STRIKES; not TKO or submission.

And a TKO (submission) would still count as a submission.

And a Submission (strikes) would still count as a strikes stoppage.

Am I talking to myself or does anyone else feel the same?

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Post #1   1/9/08 2:40:19AM   

ufcboss

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Dont mean to shoot you down, But that idea sucks. Bang bang

Post #2   1/9/08 3:12:02AM   

Kpro

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You have to be in the top 2000 for the season to have an opinion.

Bang.

Bang.

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Post #3   1/9/08 3:15:27AM   

Rollins

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Thats a cute little post UFC guy but he's got something here, I've never really gave it much thought until now so it's hard for me to say, might be splitting hairs, might be right on the money.

Post #4   1/9/08 3:21:14AM   

DonHagliatelli

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I'm in two minds about this.

Technically a submission to strikes is still a submission.

You could say the fight has to be won via striking or subission move, I think that would solve this as in the situation above the fight would have been won via striking.

Post #5   1/9/08 4:46:13AM   

stock

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I honestly don't care as long as the rules are clear for everyone.

On a personal note, I have always thought that "submission via strikes" should be lumped in with TKO/KO.

Under a new scoring methodology/currently, how were/would these fights have scored?

*Sherdog used to list Lutter as losing to Anderson Silva via submission (triangle), but now it lists it as submission (elbows).

*GSP vs Serra. Sherdog lists it as TKO although GSP was clearly tapping at the time of the ref stoppage.

Post #6   1/9/08 7:39:40AM   

grappler0000

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Posted by Kpro

You have to be in the top 2000 for the season to have an opinion.

Bang.

Bang.



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Post #7   1/9/08 11:25:13AM   

CornishMMA

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Id never really worried about it ......... i dont remember a case where this has come in, has there been a submission due to strikes lately? ............. ahh i remember Kenny on Robinson, what was that given as? **EDIT** Yep now im totally on board 100% i picked Kenny to win by TKO but because Alvin tapped it was given as a submission! thats a crap system imo and it should ge the way Kpro said, come on admin/mods lets try and sort this out before the start of the new season**

Needlesss to say tho Kpro's system would sort that out, im sure subs have still been given when they havnt tapped but needless to say they always should be so i think its a great idea

Last edited 1/9/08 12:20PM server time by CornishMMA
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2 total post edits

Post #8   1/9/08 12:18:16PM   

EvilScott

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I'd say thats pretty fair.

When I pick TKO I'm betting a stoppage due to strikes (whether the guy taps or the ref steps in or he goes unconscious)

When I pick Sub I'm picking that the guy succumbs to a submission (whether the ref steps in, the guys goes unconscious, or the guy taps)

Post #9   1/9/08 12:26:39PM   

CornishMMA

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Posted by EvilScott

I'd say thats pretty fair.

When I pick TKO I'm betting a stoppage due to strikes (whether the guy taps or the ref steps in or he goes unconscious)

When I pick Sub I'm picking that the guy succumbs to a submission (whether the ref steps in, the guys goes unconscious, or the guy taps)


Well done that man for putting it so well, i was struggling to condense and explain it as good as that

The only example i can find of a NON Tap submission was at UFC 68, Drew didnt tap he went out and Kampman was slow breaking the hold, BUT that was still given on here as a submission

Last edited 1/9/08 12:36PM server time by CornishMMA
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Post #10   1/9/08 12:28:40PM   

johnafirth

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Posted by stock

I honestly don't care as long as the rules are clear for everyone.

On a personal note, I have always thought that "submission via strikes" should be lumped in with TKO/KO.

Under a new scoring methodology/currently, how were/would these fights have scored?

*Sherdog used to list Lutter as losing to Anderson Silva via submission (triangle), but now it lists it as submission (elbows).

*GSP vs Serra. Sherdog lists it as TKO although GSP was clearly tapping at the time of the ref stoppage.




For Anderson/Lutter, Lutter said it was the triangle he tapped to. He tried moving because of the elbows, and ended up in an even worse position for the choke.

Post #11   1/9/08 4:46:42PM   

stock

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Posted by johnafirth


Posted by stock

I honestly don't care as long as the rules are clear for everyone.

On a personal note, I have always thought that "submission via strikes" should be lumped in with TKO/KO.

Under a new scoring methodology/currently, how were/would these fights have scored?

*Sherdog used to list Lutter as losing to Anderson Silva via submission (triangle), but now it lists it as submission (elbows).

*GSP vs Serra. Sherdog lists it as TKO although GSP was clearly tapping at the time of the ref stoppage.




For Anderson/Lutter, Lutter said it was the triangle he tapped to. He tried moving because of the elbows, and ended up in an even worse position for the choke.



Then why did Sherdog change the official result of the fight.
Anderson said in an interview that since he had horrible inflamation in his knee that he could not lock the triangle and that is why he started dropping elbows, thus forcing the tap.
That all being said, it was a pretty odd scenario and don't think there is any good way to score it that would make everyone happy. Since Lutter was in a triangle and the fight was originally scored as a tapout via triangle choke, it should have been scored as a submission victory.


IMO, EvilScott summed it up best.

I think 3 options are fair.

1. Stoppage via strikes/TKO/KO/DQ.
2. Stoppage via submission hold.
3. Decision

To be fair, scoring would always use the official scoring from fight night.

Post #12   1/10/08 9:21:08AM   

CornishMMA

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Now is the time for the admin to change it, as it is it HASNT BEEN FAIR as they gave one the correct way and another the wrong way, you should get credit for picking Kenny by submission cos he GnP'd him, just cos he tapped ffs!

Please mods/admin can you implement or explain why you dont want too?

Post #13   1/11/08 9:40:08AM   

scoozna

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Posted by EvilScott

I'd say thats pretty fair.

When I pick TKO I'm betting a stoppage due to strikes (whether the guy taps or the ref steps in or he goes unconscious)

When I pick Sub I'm picking that the guy succumbs to a submission (whether the ref steps in, the guys goes unconscious, or the guy taps)



That's the best way to sum it up - I think this makes a lot of sense and should be the basis going forward.

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Post #14   1/11/08 11:52:35AM   

madmarck

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but a submission due to strikes is a submisson. The ref stops the fight because a fighter taps. Making it a submission. There is no such thing as technincal knockout by tapout

Post #15   1/11/08 4:05:24PM   
 
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