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Leg Locks...underused?

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Are leg locks underused?
Yes...we need more in MMA 30 77%
No...it isn't a good technique for today's MMA 9 23%
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jiujitsufreak74

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I personally love leg locks and they way that sambo and JJ utilize them. i am wondering why i don't see more of them. i saw Manvil secure a nice heel hook on mohr and just before that his fellow countryman roman also secured a beautiful heel hook on dorian. the sickest submission i have ever seen in my life was a leg lock: flying scissor heel hook by chonan on silva. ken shamrock really utilized the leg lock in the early ufc's, but has the skill level of the average mma fighter made it more difficult to pull of a leg lock? tyson griffin attempted a beautiful knee bar, but are they just too hard to secure now-a-days? maybe it is because by going for a leg lock you expose yourself to poor position if you fail, but imo they can be the most dangerous because it is hard to predict and they inflict damage rather fast that can linger on if the fight doesn't get stopped.

so my question to you is why don't we see more leg locks? Is it because it is harder to secure on the higher skilled opponents of today's mma or is it because fighters are just not learning them? Either way i would like to see more of them...especially the underutilized calf crush which is inflicts excruciating pain.

Post #1   1/4/08 9:45:22PM   

loonytnt

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leg locks are hard to get in mma for me, when i fight i dont like tryin to get leg locks because if i dont have it i get punched to much, but if a guy can do it i say do it

Post #2   1/4/08 9:49:13PM   

jiujitsufreak74

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Posted by loonytnt

leg locks are hard to get in mma for me, when i fight i dont like tryin to get leg locks because if i dont have it i get punched to much, but if a guy can do it i say do it



i personally love leg locks and use them all of the time in JJ and in MMA. it is especially good to get it right from takedown because they aren't expecting it. also when in their guard you can make a move for the leg although that is more risky and a lot of people don't like to do that because then you might end up in a bad spot. also a lot of people leave their legs open to a sub when in a scramble on the ground which imo is the best time to grab for one.

Post #3   1/4/08 10:01:23PM   

JimiMak

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I agree they're underused, but... they're relatively ( to some other locks) easy to defend and When you go for it it's all 4 of your limbs on one, opens you up to a plethora of punches chokes etc.

Post #4   1/4/08 10:23:33PM   

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Maybe people just cant do them as well as ole Shammy does/did?

Post #5   1/4/08 10:43:20PM   

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I think it's a combination of several reasons.

1) Leg locks are a little risky to train because sometimes you don't feel the pain until it's too late.

2) I find that many MMA fighters only utilize a handful of submissions. It is debatable why this is the case. Do they only train a few subs to get really good at them (i.e. like in judo you have your main throw and a back-up throw) or is it because a lot of MMA fighters are rushing into MMA and learning certain aspects half-assed to be more "well" rounded.

3) Leg locks are hard to sink when the body gets sweaty. They used to be easy to apply when a guy was wearing boots or shoes. But since all fighters are barefoot, it leaves the window for leg locks limited (realistically) to the first min of the fight.

Post #6   1/4/08 11:06:04PM   

Aaronno9

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I dont really know alot about jj, so i dont know how hard they are to pull off ect, but i find that alot of times when guys go for them it doesnt seem to work. Most guys just seem to beable to roll their way out of leg locks.

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Post #7   1/4/08 11:46:39PM   

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Posted by Aaronno9

I dont really know alot about jj, so i dont know how hard they are to pull off ect, but i find that alot of times when guys go for them it doesnt seem to work. Most guys just seem to beable to roll their way out of leg locks.



yes i know...but that is because a lot of MMA fighters don't practice then too often. a person who is really good at leg locks will be able to secure it no matter how much the other guy tries to roll out of it. if more fighters focused on them i am sure their success rate would increase. personally i love leg locks and i am able to keep them locked up despite my opponent rolling about. look at Minowa and how he uses them so well...if people learned how to effectively use leg locks they would be very dangerous in mma.

as for taking punches...if you have a lock in tight it is only a matter of seconds before the guy taps so i am willing to take a few shots in order to secure a win.

Post #8   1/5/08 12:10:37AM   

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i think they are underutilyzed and the reason being three fold. first many guys just arent that well versed, second you often have to give up position to go for them, and third you can often end up in a neutral position where you both have a leg lock.

guys like barnett who use them well really do a good job with them. i dont like them as they scare the crap out of me, and if someone puts a leg lock on me it is tap city (of course i dont fight mma or even tournaments so the risk of blowing out my knee just isnt there). the manny fight was a good example but im pretty sure he blew out nate's knee which is unfortunate. also i think it depends on the submission on if they are hard to pull off against todays fighters. straight kneebars and achilles locks are very hard to get guys to submit to because it is harder to do real damage with them. heel hooks and toe holds are, and should be an entirely different ballgame because sometimes something just goes pop.

Post #9   1/5/08 4:31:28AM   

jiujitsufreak74

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it seems that a good 80% of you agree that they are underused.

as for the above post...the fact that they cause lasting damage and may make a foot, ankle of knee pop is the reason they are so dangerous and should be considered more often by fighters in training. it is possible to train leg locks w/o seriously hurting your partner and i beliee if more people trained them it would make the ground game all that more dangerous

Post #10   1/5/08 4:37:40PM   

Aaronno9

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Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Aaronno9

I dont really know alot about jj, so i dont know how hard they are to pull off ect, but i find that alot of times when guys go for them it doesnt seem to work. Most guys just seem to beable to roll their way out of leg locks.



yes i know...but that is because a lot of MMA fighters don't practice then too often. a person who is really good at leg locks will be able to secure it no matter how much the other guy tries to roll out of it. if more fighters focused on them i am sure their success rate would increase. personally i love leg locks and i am able to keep them locked up despite my opponent rolling about. look at Minowa and how he uses them so well...if people learned how to effectively use leg locks they would be very dangerous in mma.

as for taking punches...if you have a lock in tight it is only a matter of seconds before the guy taps so i am willing to take a few shots in order to secure a win.




Dont get me wrong, i definatly think their underused, its just it seems not many guys can pull them off. I love the look on the other guys face when it seems like their gona beable to get back to their feet then all of a sudden they realise their ankles about to get snapped. It just seems like most fighters would rather not use them.

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Post #11   1/5/08 6:05:29PM   

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That's what it is...everyone wants to pass gaurd for a GNP...or take the back for a RNC...occasional arm locks here and there, but they want the highlights nowadays...GNP, RNC, and standing KOs are what you seen in the UFC highlight/promo vids.

Post #12   1/6/08 4:47:08PM   

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Kneebars are outdated. Noone is able to secure one anymore and when the do you saw the result of the Edgar Griffin fight.
Heel hooks Toe holds and Achilles locks, however, are open all the time.
Achilles lock from opponents guard is always there, underutilized.

Post #13   1/6/08 10:06:40PM   

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I think it's kind of a pick and choose situation. if I know who I'm delaing with and see where there strengths lie I will throw leg locks all days, but most experienced Jiujitsu practitioners can slap on a leg lock of some sort even while you're putting yours on. then it just kind of depends on who gets it first. Then there are those guys with long reach, even if you have it but you're not far enough away you're gonna eat big punches and then you'll have to risk letting go and them taking better position.

Post #14   1/7/08 6:13:40PM   

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with regards to your opponent getting one on as well, that is not smart to do. by the time your opponent realizes you have one in, his best option is to defend it not go into a battle of attrition between you and him and see who taps first. if you get the leg lock in first you have the advantage and by the time he gets his in he will be in a lot of pain. also, if you triangle his leg he can't get your leg and also the lock is tighter. so if someone is working on your leg it isn't the wisest thing to attempt your own lock unless your are stronger and more skilled then them and the skill disparity is great...which isn't the case in today's mma.

Post #15   1/7/08 6:19:59PM