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On Keith Jardine.

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AchillesHeel

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Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Keith Jardine getting a title shot.

Chuck Liddell would obviously be the favorite against Jardine, but I think Keith might be a tougher test than Babalu or Tito were. Let's face it, if Jardine caught Chuck the same way that Babalu did, Chuck would be up a creek without a paddle.

Keith is 12-2-1 (or 12-3-1, depending on who you believe), and is 4-1 in the UFC. Personally, I think he was robbed of the Decision against Bonnar, and should really be 13-1-1/5-0. His only other loss was a 6-second KO by Travis Wiuff, five years ago. I haven't seen it, but a 6-second KO almost has to be kind of random.

It's been a long time since Liddell has fought a striker, let alone a good one. The last guy on Chuck's hit list that I would call a striker is Vernon White, 2-1/2 years ago. Keith Jardine is way better than Vernon White. Liddell's loss to Rampage was his last fight against a good striker.

No, I don't think Jardine is quite up there with Rampage yet, but he's a better striker than Tito, or Jeremy Horn, or Randy Couture, and a way better striker than Babalu. Keith doesn't seem to have Chuck's one-punch power, but he does have good hand-speed and a killer instinct. His bludgeoning of Forrest Griffin was sudden, but I don't think it was a fluke. I actually thought Griffin was ahead on the score card when the anvil fell on his head. But that says something about Jardine, imho; he was getting pushed around a little and then... BLAMMO!

But the icing on the cake might be this: There's one thing that Keith brings into a fight against Liddell that no one else has. Harsh kicks, to the legs and body. He didn't use them as effectively as I'd hoped he would against Forrest Griffin, but I think effective kicks could be Chuck's undoing, especially if he plays his usual game of being patient and waiting for The Punch to land.

As things are today, I'd expect Liddell to win a match against Jardine, 'cause Chuck is Chuck, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get banged up in the process.



Post #1   2/12/07 1:12:14PM   

pv3Hpv3p

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Well thought out post, but I have to disagree, for the most part...

I do agree that Jardine was robbed against Bonner, but that's just about it...

Leg kick are a really risky idea with a solid counter puncher like Chuck I imagine a Tim Sylvia / Ricco Rodriguez endind), and Liddell has a very solid chin and fantastic recovery time. I understand that Forrest was winning that fight until that upercut / left hook, but comparing Forrest and Chuck in style or skill is not fair to the iceman...

I do think Chuck needs to face more strikers, but Keith is just out-classed in this fight.

With all that being said, I will be excited to see Jardine in the octagon soon.

Post #2   2/12/07 1:27:14PM   

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Posted by pv3Hpv3p

Well thought out post, but I have to disagree, for the most part...

I do agree that Jardine was robbed against Bonner, but that's just about it...

Leg kick are a really risky idea with a solid counter puncher like Chuck I imagine a Tim Sylvia / Ricco Rodriguez endind), and Liddell has a very solid chin and fantastic recovery time. I understand that Forrest was winning that fight until that upercut / left hook, but comparing Forrest and Chuck in style or skill is not fair to the iceman...

I do think Chuck needs to face more strikers, but Keith is just out-classed in this fight.

With all that being said, I will be excited to see Jardine in the octagon soon.



Good points; right now the way Chuck has been fighting I think there is only one man who can give him a run for his money and thats Wanderlei Silva. Silva has great striking power not the most technical striking but great power and very aggressive. However in a bout under US rules prohibiting soccer kicks stomps and the like and the fact of how aggressive Wanderlei is and how Chuck is a pretty good counter puncher and has knocked people out backing up I don't see Chuck losing that fight. Jardine will get there in time hopefully they don't try and rush him too much... but if they offer him a title shot you can bet he'll take it and go in there and do his best.

Post #3   2/12/07 1:32:58PM   

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Your points are pretty sound, except I think Jardine should have to beat at least one more of the UFC top LHVY's. I honestly would have called the Bonnar and Gouvea fight's both draws. Against Bonnar Jardine landed more, but he never even knocked Bonnar down. Bonnar dropped him twice even after eating a lot of leg kicks he was still standing. In the Gouvea fight is kind of like a similiar reversal . Gouvea landed more( especially leg kicks) and jardine landed the better shots. Gouvea to me is actually a relatively small 205 and should be fighting at middleweight IMO. He's already beaten Forest, andTito/Babalu is too risky if they want to set him up for a possible title shot. . Even Machida might go bad, and Rashad and him won't fight eachother. I think they obviously want Rampage next. Rampage has one more fight on his contract whick expires about a month before Liddel's back. If he resigns by then I would have Jardine/Rampage fight, winner get's a title shot. If Rampage doesn't resign and no one new comes( Wandy, Shogun, Lil Nog) in I think he'll be matched with someone he should beat but who is at least recognizable as top 25 ( Lambert, Eastman) then fight Chuck.

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Post #4   2/12/07 1:41:07PM   

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Posted by pv3Hpv3p

Well thought out post, but I have to disagree, for the most part...

I do agree that Jardine was robbed against Bonner, but that's just about it...

Leg kick are a really risky idea with a solid counter puncher like Chuck I imagine a Tim Sylvia / Ricco Rodriguez endind), and Liddell has a very solid chin and fantastic recovery time.


Liddell does have a good chin, yes, but I'm not sure it's superior to Griffin's. Anyway, the reason I think kicks to his legs and body could be useful against him is precisely because of their cumulative effect, and because they can sap a fighter's power and hinder his mobility. Naturally, if he caught Jardine like Sylvia caught Rodriguez it would be "nighty-night." But that's true, regardless; I don't think kicking Chuck would be more dangerous than anything else you might try, other than simply running away.


I understand that Forrest was winning that fight until that upercut / left hook, but comparing Forrest and Chuck in style or skill is not fair to the iceman...

Sorry, I never intended to compare Chuck to Forrest in style or skill. I'd say their general toughness is comparable, but their styles and skills are completely different. Eventually, I think Forrest will be another guy who could give Chuck a hard time, but he isn't ready to take out of the oven either.


I do think Chuck needs to face more strikers, but Keith is just out-classed in this fight.

Yes, no question about that.


With all that being said, I will be excited to see Jardine in the octagon soon.

Rashad Evans has said "no way", but maybe Jardine could be matched up against Babalu or Tito..? I wouldn't mind seeing how he does against a top grappler.

Post #5   2/12/07 1:51:07PM   

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Posted by JoeMimic

Good points; right now the way Chuck has been fighting I think there is only one man who can give him a run for his money and thats Wanderlei Silva.


If you're going to look outside the UFC, I would say both Wandy and Shogun would give Chuck the fight of his life. I also think people are counting Rampage out a little too easily, although I can understand the reasoning there.

Post #6   2/12/07 1:54:15PM   

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Posted by hippysmacker

Your points are pretty sound, except I think Jardine should have to beat at least one more of the UFC top LHVY's.


I agree. I don't think Jardine is quite ready for a title fight, but unless Rampage forgoes another warmup fight, there really isn't anyone else for Chuck to fight. Jardine seems to be next, whether he's ready or not. If Rampage takes that UFC71 match, then Jardine can get another fight. That's what I hope happens, personally.


Posted by hippysmacker

He's already beaten Forest, andTito/Babalu is too risky if they want to set him up for a possible title shot. . Even Machida might go bad, and Rashad and him won't fight eachother. [...]I think he'll be matched with someone he should beat but who is at least recognizable as top 25 ( Lambert, Eastman) then fight Chuck.


I like risky, though. I think there should be more risky fights. I'm not fond of the UFC's tendency to (seemingly) decide who should get a title shot and then giving them preliminary fights that they're supposed to win. Cro Cop shouldn't be beating up Eddie Sanchez en route to a title fight, imho, he should be beating up Brandon Vera.

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Post #7   2/12/07 1:57:35PM   

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Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by JoeMimic

Good points; right now the way Chuck has been fighting I think there is only one man who can give him a run for his money and thats Wanderlei Silva.


If you're going to look outside the UFC, I would say both Wandy and Shogun would give Chuck the fight of his life. I also think people are counting Rampage out a little too easily, although I can understand the reasoning there.



I was going to mention Shogun but for some reason I started typing about Silva and forgot all about him. I'm conflicted on Rampage; I think he could beat him but I just don't see Chuck losing to him this time around.

Post #8   2/12/07 2:04:48PM   

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Posted by JoeMimic

I'm conflicted on Rampage; I think he could beat him but I just don't see Chuck losing to him this time around.


I know what you mean. A lot depends on whether Rampage wants it or not. He seems to have lost something lately. All his talk about fighting for money doesn't help, imho.

Post #9   2/12/07 2:22:04PM   

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Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by JoeMimic

I'm conflicted on Rampage; I think he could beat him but I just don't see Chuck losing to him this time around.


I know what you mean. A lot depends on whether Rampage wants it or not. He seems to have lost something lately. All his talk about fighting for money doesn't help, imho.



I think he'll be motivated; I just think he could use another tuneup fight. That wa the whole plan you heard after the fight from Rampage himself and his trainer was on Beatdown I believe the day after and he said they were looking for another tuneup fight. Money talks though.

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Post #10   2/12/07 2:25:49PM   

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I think Shogun could beat Chuck. Wandy's so wild, it could go either way.

As for Jardine, we'll just have to see what unfolds with Rashad/Jardine fiasco

Post #11   2/12/07 2:50:30PM   

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Posted by Manfred

As for Jardine, we'll just have to see what unfolds with Rashad/Jardine fiasco


Isn't it common for guys who are friends or sparring partners to avoid fighting each other? I'm a little surprised this has become a thing.

Post #12   2/12/07 4:08:02PM   

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Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Manfred

As for Jardine, we'll just have to see what unfolds with Rashad/Jardine fiasco


Isn't it common for guys who are friends or sparring partners to avoid fighting each other? I'm a little surprised this has become a thing.



100% agree

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Post #13   2/12/07 4:11:24PM   

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Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Manfred

As for Jardine, we'll just have to see what unfolds with Rashad/Jardine fiasco


Isn't it common for guys who are friends or sparring partners to avoid fighting each other? I'm a little surprised this has become a thing.



True true!

I think Jardine will give more of a fight than people think. He is not ready for Chuck in my opinion but those leg kicks are going to matter for sure and if he can take a punch he could stand for a while. Maybe even get off a few good strikes of his own and make it a war.

Seems to me like Liddell v Jardine could be similar to Tito v Forrest just with different players (and styles obviously).

Post #14   2/12/07 8:19:59PM   

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Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by Manfred

As for Jardine, we'll just have to see what unfolds with Rashad/Jardine fiasco


Isn't it common for guys who are friends or sparring partners to avoid fighting each other? I'm a little surprised this has become a thing.



100% agree



screw friends. if they want to fight and they want to get paid the big bucks and eachother is in the way and more importantly, if dana says so they are going to have to shut up and fight and if they refuse than neither should get a shot because of stupidity.
plus, there is no real competition for chuck in this weight class in the ufc. so all this talk and speculation about who is ready and who is not is irrelevent. start feeding guys to chuck because if dana kepps feeding them to eachother to find out who gets the shot all his pretty bot up and commers are going to start exchanging wins and losses because lets face it, no of them even look like they could be dominent against eachother. if dana ends up with fighters with 0&3, 1&2, 2&1 most recent records how will those be considered good matchups.
put them in with chuck now while they are still improving and moving up the ladder. if you lose to chuck you don't really lose a lot of face when randy, tito and babalu havent been able to beat him. but if forrest loses to jardine and rashad loses to rampage and jardine loses to rashad and rampagew loses to forrest thewn where is the division

Post #15   2/13/07 2:33:02AM   
 
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