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jocksmall

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i do support all mma watch both pride and ufc on ppv and attend rage of the cage and other "feeder" shows live. there is nothing wrong with pointing out the shortcomings of business like pride or ufc. if enough poeple recognize the improvements that can be made so will the decision makers in the ufc or pride. then maybe the ufc will do a better job with its matchmaking and pride will learn some of the marketing tactics that have made the ufc more accesable. i for one dont want a monoply of the sport w/ ufc calling the shots i want pride to prosper or the ufc to be more like pride with the number and quality of the matches

Post #46   2/27/07 5:42:52PM   

zephead

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Posted by jocksmall

i do support all mma watch both pride and ufc on ppv and attend rage of the cage and other "feeder" shows live. there is nothing wrong with pointing out the shortcomings of business like pride or ufc. if enough poeple recognize the improvements that can be made so will the decision makers in the ufc or pride. then maybe the ufc will do a better job with its matchmaking and pride will learn some of the marketing tactics that have made the ufc more accesable. i for one dont want a monoply of the sport w/ ufc calling the shots i want pride to prosper or the ufc to be more like pride with the number and quality of the matches



I agree, there's nothing wrong with pointing out the shortcomings of the UFC or Pride. But they way it's done on the net is not pointing it out, it is bashing, bashing and more bashing. The UFC could learn from Pride and show more fights like Pride does. Pride could learn from the UFC and have their champs lay the title on the line every time the champ fights and quit with the "freak shows" i.e. Fedor/Zulu, anybody Giant Silva fights, Crop Cop/Dos.

After every Pride or UFC card the nuthuggers come out in full force. Thread after thread of "That card sucked" or "That's why (whatever org) is the best." I for one don't want to log on and then have to wade through all the garbage to find something worthwhile to read.

We're all MMA fans and need to enjoy that we are getting to see Pride, the UFC, Elite XC and WEC. Showtime and Vs are jumping on the bandwagon. Supossedly Dana, ESPN and HBO are talking. It's a great time to be a fan of all MMA.

_______________________________________
"To me the records were just a starting point," recalls John Paul Jones, "The most important thing was always the stage show. So many great nights. At our worst we were still better than most. At our best we could just wipe the floor with the lot of them. It was just a very good live band."

Post #47   2/27/07 6:07:46PM   

jocksmall

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Posted by zephead


Posted by jocksmall

i do support all mma watch both pride and ufc on ppv and attend rage of the cage and other "feeder" shows live. there is nothing wrong with pointing out the shortcomings of business like pride or ufc. if enough poeple recognize the improvements that can be made so will the decision makers in the ufc or pride. then maybe the ufc will do a better job with its matchmaking and pride will learn some of the marketing tactics that have made the ufc more accesable. i for one dont want a monoply of the sport w/ ufc calling the shots i want pride to prosper or the ufc to be more like pride with the number and quality of the matches



I agree, there's nothing wrong with pointing out the shortcomings of the UFC or Pride. But they way it's done on the net is not pointing it out, it is bashing, bashing and more bashing. The UFC could learn from Pride and show more fights like Pride does. Pride could learn from the UFC and have their champs lay the title on the line every time the champ fights and quit with the "freak shows" i.e. Fedor/Zulu, anybody Giant Silva fights, Crop Cop/Dos.

After every Pride or UFC card the nuthuggers come out in full force. Thread after thread of "That card sucked" or "That's why (whatever org) is the best." I for one don't want to log on and then have to wade through all the garbage to find something worthwhile to read.

We're all MMA fans and need to enjoy that we are getting to see Pride, the UFC, Elite XC and WEC. Showtime and Vs are jumping on the bandwagon. Supossedly Dana, ESPN and HBO are talking. It's a great time to be a fan of all MMA.

Post #48   2/27/07 6:36:41PM   

rearnakedchoke

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I just posted this same reply in a Sherdog topic, but it definitely applies here I feel. So hopefully it's ok with the mods. (Minor editing so it applies directly to this thread).It pertains more to talent pools and fighter quality than marketing or production.

It's almost as if noone realizes that they're two completely different organizations. Has it not crossed anyone's mind that while a fighter may be comfortable in one org., he may not in another? Take Frank Trigg for example. A lot of people are using him and Diaz as example of how a UFC reject can go in and beat highly-touted pride talents. If you think they're the exact same fighters they were in the ufc, I'm sorry but youre wrong. There are a million different elements that go into a fight. Maybe they've been training harder, maybe they're shaking off ring-rust. It could be something as simple as the over-the-top pride intro's get them fired up before a bout like ufc couldn't do.

The same can be said for the so-called pride fighters that come into the ufc and do terribly. Let's use the Heath Herring example. He fought 17 times in pride. 17. Do you honestly think he'd feel the exact same way and enter the octagon for the first way he did the pride ring 17 times? There's an adjustment to be made.
Then we can look at it the other way. Anderson Silva fought in pride, and while there defeated former ufc welterweight champion and staple Carlos Newton. Then came into the ufc and absolutely annihilated two of its most popular fighters in Leben and Franklin.

Now I know there are ufc fans who think I am pride nuthugging. But I digress. The same argument can be made on the other hand for the ufc. There have been ufc fighters who went to pride and did not fare well. Jens Pulver for example never lost in the UFC (not counting Lauzon). But when he went to pride he had only a 2-2 record. Then you have someone like Diaz who was 6-4 in the UFC and came to PRIDE and had an impressive victory over a man who was touted as the world's best.

I know that my points may be slightly scattered, but what I'm really trying to say is it depends on the fighters, it has nothing to do with one organization being better than the other. Sometimes fighters who have done well in the ufc go to pride and do badly. sometimes those who have done not so well in the ufc go to pride and do great. The exact opposte can be said for both of these statements.


Just to touch on production. There is no doubt in my mind that Pride puts on a better show when you look at it from an energetic standpoint. First of all, they keep the action coming. Their arena setups are also absolutely phenomenal. One thing I especially love is when they play the pride theme and announce the fighters by matchup at the beginning of the show. It's a surefire way to get everyone in the right frame of mind.

A lot of my points may seem to favor Pride, but I truly do love both orgs, neither one more than the other. To paraphrase a quote someone once said: "ufc is the beer and pizza of mma, pride is the champagne and caviar". Me personally? I like all four.

Post #49   2/27/07 11:23:57PM   

jdubs

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i have always been crazy bout ufc but latley i am kind of becoming fond of pride cause they are more proffesional, both are balanced with good fighters though.. i think with the right marketing and fighters exc could become the next ufc

Post #50   2/28/07 6:13:37PM   

dogleg

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I dont mind favoring one org over another and nuthugging is almost tolerable but Pride fans may be more respectful at the shows but as far as on the net they disrespect anything non pride or anything u.s. Not talking about a Pride fan,but a Pride-snob gets on my last nerve and there are hundreds of these kids.They think Pride as a promo is better, fighters are better, they as fans are better, and they think of a ufc fan as George Bush. Opinions are fine but these dudes are loving blindly and you could beat wandy up with a ufc janitor and they would still say he is top 3 lhw. I respect every1's opinion but only if mine is respected as well.

Post #51   3/1/07 2:01:59AM   

ac_gi

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Posted by dogleg

I dont mind favoring one org over another and nuthugging is almost tolerable but Pride fans may be more respectful at the shows but as far as on the net they disrespect anything non pride or anything u.s. Not talking about a Pride fan,but a Pride-snob gets on my last nerve and there are hundreds of these kids.They think Pride as a promo is better, fighters are better, they as fans are better, and they think of a ufc fan as George Bush. Opinions are fine but these dudes are loving blindly and you could beat wandy up with a ufc janitor and they would still say he is top 3 lhw. I respect every1's opinion but only if mine is respected as well.



The Pride fans at the events and the e-Pride fans are very different.

Post #52   3/1/07 3:06:05AM   

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Pride-Better show, Better fighters (IMO), better fights, tournaments, soccer kicks/stomps/knees to the head (Love them!), better commentators (Frank Trigg is 1 of my fav fighters and Id rather hear him then Rogan or Mike), very respectfull fans in Japan (no booing...really gets on my nerves)

I honestly tried to think of better stuff the UFC had but I couldn't think of it =(
Love both orgs don't get me wrong but strongly preffer Pride over UFC.

Post #53   3/1/07 3:38:49AM   

dogleg

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Pride = MXC annex

Post #54   3/1/07 10:26:23AM   

mmadb

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Let me just make one point.

I just watched every fight on a Pride Card, have you EVER done that watching the UFC? Less talk more rock!

Post #55   3/1/07 10:40:01AM   

zephead

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Posted by mmadb

Let me just make one point.

I just watched every fight on a Pride Card, have you EVER done that watching the UFC? Less talk more rock!



Every single UFC. Fighting is more technique and stratergy. Not just a highliht reel KO or slick submission. Diego/Karo fight was great. Great transitions and clinch work. And the the Griffin/Bonnar fight was great for a different reason. Like I've posted before, my favorite fight of alltime is in the King Of the Cage, Lister vs. Flynn. You ever get a chance to watch that fight, do it.

'.ve watched a few Prides where the cards were not that good. But to you, you just said you've "watched every fight on a Pride Card." And then added, "have you EVER done that watching the UFC?" So that tells me that you do not like the UFC and are a "fan (or nuthugger of Pride)" That's cool. But in my opinion, to say you have watched every single fight of Prides on every single card and had no problem but can't do the same for the UFC means there's something there. You are all over one and don't like the other.

I am a fan of all MMA. You ought to try it, it's pretty cool. You have Hook-n-Shoot, Apex, Mecca, Gladiator Challenge. Granted no name fighters, but some great fights. Some of the best fights I've ever seen have been in the King Of the Cage. I own every KOTC that is on DVD. I have well over 150 fights cards on DVD. Every org. that puts out a DVD I buy.

One day everybody (or close to it) will support the sport and not just one org. Until then we'll have this childish "UFC sucks, no Pride sucks" high school garbage that goes on. Suppirt all of MMA.

_______________________________________
"To me the records were just a starting point," recalls John Paul Jones, "The most important thing was always the stage show. So many great nights. At our worst we were still better than most. At our best we could just wipe the floor with the lot of them. It was just a very good live band."

Post #56   3/1/07 4:55:41PM   

DJNocturnal

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Posted by zephead


Posted by mmadb

Let me just make one point.

I just watched every fight on a Pride Card, have you EVER done that watching the UFC? Less talk more rock!



Every single UFC. Fighting is more technique and stratergy. Not just a highliht reel KO or slick submission. Diego/Karo fight was great. Great transitions and clinch work. And the the Griffin/Bonnar fight was great for a different reason. Like I've posted before, my favorite fight of alltime is in the King Of the Cage, Lister vs. Flynn. You ever get a chance to watch that fight, do it.

'.ve watched a few Prides where the cards were not that good. But to you, you just said you've "watched every fight on a Pride Card." And then added, "have you EVER done that watching the UFC?" So that tells me that you do not like the UFC and are a "fan (or nuthugger of Pride)" That's cool. But in my opinion, to say you have watched every single fight of Prides on every single card and had no problem but can't do the same for the UFC means there's something there. You are all over one and don't like the other.

I am a fan of all MMA. You ought to try it, it's pretty cool. You have Hook-n-Shoot, Apex, Mecca, Gladiator Challenge. Granted no name fighters, but some great fights. Some of the best fights I've ever seen have been in the King Of the Cage. I own every KOTC that is on DVD. I have well over 150 fights cards on DVD. Every org. that puts out a DVD I buy.

One day everybody (or close to it) will support the sport and not just one org. Until then we'll have this childish "UFC sucks, no Pride sucks" high school garbage that goes on. Suppirt all of MMA.



If I'm correct, he means, he saw EVERY FIGHT on a Pride card. Now can you do that with the UFC?

As in, every match at a Pride show, he was able to watch. Comparing to the UFC, you have like 3-4 fights, maybe showing one prelim if the night ends early. You get to watch ALL the fights on a Pride card, but you only get like 3-4 fights on a UFC.

Pride offers more action as a whole, while UFC offers literally more commentary than fights. I swear Goldberg has said "Coming up next, ____ versus _____" like maybe 20 times before the actual fight starts.

Post #57   3/1/07 8:01:07PM   

zephead

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Posted by DJNocturnal


Posted by zephead


Posted by mmadb

Let me just make one point.

I just watched every fight on a Pride Card, have you EVER done that watching the UFC? Less talk more rock!



Every single UFC. Fighting is more technique and stratergy. Not just a highliht reel KO or slick submission. Diego/Karo fight was great. Great transitions and clinch work. And the the Griffin/Bonnar fight was great for a different reason. Like I've posted before, my favorite fight of alltime is in the King Of the Cage, Lister vs. Flynn. You ever get a chance to watch that fight, do it.

'.ve watched a few Prides where the cards were not that good. But to you, you just said you've "watched every fight on a Pride Card." And then added, "have you EVER done that watching the UFC?" So that tells me that you do not like the UFC and are a "fan (or nuthugger of Pride)" That's cool. But in my opinion, to say you have watched every single fight of Prides on every single card and had no problem but can't do the same for the UFC means there's something there. You are all over one and don't like the other.

I am a fan of all MMA. You ought to try it, it's pretty cool. You have Hook-n-Shoot, Apex, Mecca, Gladiator Challenge. Granted no name fighters, but some great fights. Some of the best fights I've ever seen have been in the King Of the Cage. I own every KOTC that is on DVD. I have well over 150 fights cards on DVD. Every org. that puts out a DVD I buy.

One day everybody (or close to it) will support the sport and not just one org. Until then we'll have this childish "UFC sucks, no Pride sucks" high school garbage that goes on. Support all of MMA.



If I'm correct, he means, he saw EVERY FIGHT on a Pride card. Now can you do that with the UFC?

As in, every match at a Pride show, he was able to watch. Comparing to the UFC, you have like 3-4 fights, maybe showing one prelim if the night ends early. You get to watch ALL the fights on a Pride card, but you only get like 3-4 fights on a UFC.

Pride offers more action as a whole, while UFC offers literally more commentary than fights. I swear Goldberg has said "Coming up next, ____ versus _____" like maybe 20 times before the actual fight starts.



My bad. Yes, the UFC needs to show more fights on a card. The talking has to cut down and the long entrances have to stop. I use to think that Pride was able to show all their fights because they were able to edit before we saw the PPV, but Saturday night showed that not to be the case.

If Pride continues to do cards in the USA, the UFC will be hurting by not showing more fights.

_______________________________________
"To me the records were just a starting point," recalls John Paul Jones, "The most important thing was always the stage show. So many great nights. At our worst we were still better than most. At our best we could just wipe the floor with the lot of them. It was just a very good live band."

Post #58   3/1/07 8:16:26PM   

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I agree the UFC needs to show all the fight's, and I'm glad Pride has done so recently.This wasn't always the case though. Maybe the UFC will start doing it too. If the UFC would start doing that, and Pride would stop having non-title matches I would be in heaven

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“Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie ,cheat ,or steal.for selfish gain. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.”
The Iron Code

Post #59   3/1/07 10:09:18PM   

mmadb

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Posted by DJNocturnal


Posted by zephead


Posted by mmadb

Let me just make one point.

I just watched every fight on a Pride Card, have you EVER done that watching the UFC? Less talk more rock!



Every single UFC. Fighting is more technique and stratergy. Not just a highliht reel KO or slick submission. Diego/Karo fight was great. Great transitions and clinch work. And the the Griffin/Bonnar fight was great for a different reason. Like I've posted before, my favorite fight of alltime is in the King Of the Cage, Lister vs. Flynn. You ever get a chance to watch that fight, do it.

'.ve watched a few Prides where the cards were not that good. But to you, you just said you've "watched every fight on a Pride Card." And then added, "have you EVER done that watching the UFC?" So that tells me that you do not like the UFC and are a "fan (or nuthugger of Pride)" That's cool. But in my opinion, to say you have watched every single fight of Prides on every single card and had no problem but can't do the same for the UFC means there's something there. You are all over one and don't like the other.

I am a fan of all MMA. You ought to try it, it's pretty cool. You have Hook-n-Shoot, Apex, Mecca, Gladiator Challenge. Granted no name fighters, but some great fights. Some of the best fights I've ever seen have been in the King Of the Cage. I own every KOTC that is on DVD. I have well over 150 fights cards on DVD. Every org. that puts out a DVD I buy.

One day everybody (or close to it) will support the sport and not just one org. Until then we'll have this childish "UFC sucks, no Pride sucks" high school garbage that goes on. Suppirt all of MMA.



If I'm correct, he means, he saw EVERY FIGHT on a Pride card. Now can you do that with the UFC?

As in, every match at a Pride show, he was able to watch. Comparing to the UFC, you have like 3-4 fights, maybe showing one prelim if the night ends early. You get to watch ALL the fights on a Pride card, but you only get like 3-4 fights on a UFC.

Pride offers more action as a whole, while UFC offers literally more commentary than fights. I swear Goldberg has said "Coming up next, ____ versus _____" like maybe 20 times before the actual fight starts.



Exactly, it was more of a compliment towards Pride then a dig on UFC. I still love the UFC and actually have every single event they've ever held on a hard drive somewhere (Pride's too for that matter) but I simply prefer Pride. More fights = more action = more MMA = more me happy. I get tired of the same stupid promo vignette between every fight and all the blah blah blah. Let the fighting do the entertaining.

I am honoured to finally be called a nuhugger though because I sure do love nuts.

Post #60   3/2/07 7:17:01AM   
 
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