Who did Forrest Griffin ever beat? |
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Franklinfan47
In Full Mount
Career record: 164-91
Season: 27-13 (#37)
Location: Ontario
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The funny thing is, it'd be hard to justify giving anyone a shot at this point since the division is so up in the air. I think you could throw Thiago silva, wanderlai silva, shogun, rashad evans, jardine, or forrest and it would be hard to argue. So to be honest, I have no problem with this match up.
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Post #16 12/11/07 10:57:36AM
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postman
MMA Sensei
Career record: 130-82
Season: 23-17 (#2547)
Location: Delmont ,Pa
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Posted by hippysmacker
Posted by postman
Posted by moob
Posted by postman
No i'm saying Shogun's ACL was shot he had no Cardio and he was pushed into a fight he wasn't ready for. You have Soko Machida coming up you have Chuck Wandy coming up Rampage is hurt he not going to fight anytime soon. Right theres 4 guys that you could figure out something better than Forrest.
Soko and Machida not got up and coming fights soon? Chuck has been beaten , twice in pretty serious fashion - if he got a shot wouldn't there be more controversy? Wandy is only just coming into the UFC again - see Chuck rationale for why he shouldn't get a shot. Rampage is the champion and will befighting Forrest, so I dunno why you even mentioned him.
Not trying to be confrontational here, but your argument against Forrest seems to stem from you being a Shogun fan, and the latter getting his ass whopped.
Soko and machida are fighting I think that the winner of that should get Forrest
for a title shot. I know most of you don't put any stock in Pride fights but Wandy beat Page twice BAD, Page should want him out of the gate to avenge his losses. Soko beat lil nog and Arona if he beats Machida thats three if not top ten then top fifteen fighters in a row. It is funny to me that no one puts any stock into fights from Pride but you all jump to say he beat Shogun so he should get a shot.
" HEY, wait a minute mr. postman, "
Lets start from the beginning.
1. You first undervalue Griffins win, by saying" we all know that wasn't the real Shogun" , also implying that the "real Shogun" would beat Griffin. Forrest didn't just win , he finished Shogun. Then you imply that everyone agrees with your opinion. Definitely not true, as this thread alone should have showed you. I picked Shogun to win too, but I was wrong. I thought Forrest could maybe pull out a decision, due to SHogun having possible UFC jitters, and Shogun losing his last fight in a cage to Babalu. Still, I made him a heavy favorite in my mind, and all of us who thought the same were proven wrong. Forrest subbing him, and Shogun tapping out with so little time left impressed me all the more towards Forrest, and left me with doubts about Ruas mental toughness. When a fighter taps out to a choke with so little time left , it raises doubts in me. It's not like he was in a arm/knee bar and usually would have suffered longterm damage, Guys get choked out all the time , and got to be extremely negligible amount of them that have any lasting problems from it. I saw it happen twice in a gym on the same day , to the same guy. He was back grappling the next day. A large number of people had Shogun #1 at LHVY before that fight .
2.Then you throw out the injury card. Someone even pointed out that Forrest claimed injury as well. We don't know if either really was injured coming in, and even if we accept there claims, Forrest still won. We don't know the truth behind any fighters injury claims ,unless they had a MRI before the fight ,and it was shown to credible sources beforehand. Personally I will take both guys words for it, but it's still just a opinion, not a fact. Give credit where it is due and stop making excuses. Fighters lose, and it's how they come back that defines them more than anything.
3. Then you automatically assume and take for granted" Sokodjou/Machida/ Chuck/ Wandy " are 4 guys that you could figure out something better than Forrest" . I personally agree that the winner of Skoludjou/Machida would be the best choice, if the winner is impressive in victory, but that doesn't mean Forrest isn't also deserving . Chuck and Wandy both have back to back losses, and IMO neither is deserving without 2 straight wins against top fighters. So I think the winner of their fight still needs another impressive victory to be up for a title shot. However, it is just a opinion again. not a fact.
4. Then you state " most of you" don't put any stock in Pride fights, which is probably one of the more ridiculous things I have ever read on a MMA message board. the overwhelming majority( over 80% ) of this sites membership had Shogun #1 or #2 when he fought Forrest. If your alarmist statement were true then that wouldn't be the case. There is so much broad speculation, and blatant hyperbole from you , that I figure you must think we are all stupid. Whether you are a big Shogun fan. someone who dislikes Forrest, a Pride lover, UFC hater, or just someone trying to stir up crap, it is still just your opinion. Heres some facts, water is wet, the sky is blue, and Forrest stopped Shogun. Give the guy his credit, and chill on the bitterness, hyperbole, and assumptions that all agree with you. As always just my opinion
Thank you for putting together a well thought out post and the HEY, wait a minute mr. postman was great. I would agree that I was more trying to stir it up then anything my main point was there is time to set up the fight and that for the most part ppl discount what happened in pride on here, unless it helps their argument. I think in a time pinch to get someone in there to fight, Forrest is a fine pick, but now its Hughes Serra all over agian. I may have been a little tough on Forrest and for that I am sorry.
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Post #17 12/11/07 11:12:55AM
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MMA Sensei
Career record: 202-113
Season: 26-12 (#241)
Location: Champion City
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Posted by Franklinfan47
The funny thing is, it'd be hard to justify giving anyone a shot at this point since the division is so up in the air. I think you could throw Thiago silva, wanderlai silva, shogun, rashad evans, jardine, or forrest and it would be hard to argue. So to be honest, I have no problem with this match up.
This is essentially what I was thinking. I think the only person you could argue has earned a title shot over Griffin is Jardine, and that's a coin-flip in my mind.
Posted by hippysmacker
1. You first undervalue Griffins win[...]
2. Then you throw out the injury card[...]
3. Then you automatically assume and take for granted" Sokodjou/Machida/ Chuck/ Wandy " are 4 guys that you could figure out something better than Forrest"
4. Then you state " most of you" don't put any stock in Pride fights, which is probably one of the more ridiculous things I have ever read on a MMA message board.
Last edited 12/11/07 11:34AM by AchillesHeel
Edit note/reason: n/a
_______________________________________
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Post #18 12/11/07 11:31:19AM
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atlas777
Standup Guy
Career record: 91-65
Season: 15-19 (#4502)
Location: New York
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Im sick of people making excuses for fighters when they lose becuase they were injured ok he had a knee problem randy couture broke his arm in his fight against Gonzaga in the second round did he lose becuase of that no he brought him down and beat him shogun had a hurt knee if it was that bad he should have pulled a GSP and withdrew and fought at a later date stop making excuses the guy lost Forrest is a great competitor and anyone who saw his loss to tito knows he should have won and he was winning the Jardine fight but he got caught happens to everyone the guys a beast and he deserves a title shot stop making excuses if your hurt dont fight its not like anyone is going to take anything away from you for knowing when your hurt.
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Post #19 12/11/07 11:54:08AM
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Rich78
MMA Regular
Career record: 113-81
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Newcastle, England
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Posted by gsquat
He' still not in the top 20. Then he loses to Tito Ortiz. That in no way can raise his rank.
I take your point, but I don't believe that a loss is as clear cut as you make it. He may have lost that fight, but he put up a helluva lot more of a fight than I thought he would, and it made for an extremely entertaining match. Which in contrast to your idea of having Rashad challenge for the title, as he is undefeated, but to what cost? I can't think of many of his victories that have been as entertaining as Griffins losses.
It comes down to the age old question of winning badly vs losing well.
In my opinion, I would much rather watch a Griffin fight rather than an Evans one, due to this. When it comes down to challenging for titles though, should it always be the number one contender, even if they aren't the most exciting fighter (not specifically targetting Evans here) or should they throw it out to whoever who is on form and entertaining? IMO I would go with the latter, but there is much more of a case for the former.
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Post #20 12/11/07 12:04:45PM
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nippletits
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 88-70
Season: 24-16 (#2547)
Location: crested butte... New york Island
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I am going to say I am not really a forest fan. But, I did get to watch a few of his fights.
The tito fight, i though forest was robbed.
the shogun fight, he won, bottom line.
the Jardine (i like to call him skeletor) fight, I felt forest was winning, until Jardine released the power of Snake Mountain on his face.
now, do i think forest would win against rampage? hell no, in fact if that fight goes, ill put all my money on the chain wearing beast.
do i think it will be an exciting fight? Yes. forest always seems to entertain.
now considering Jardine has knocked out two big names in the last three fights, why not let him get killed by rampage? why give forest a shot before him?
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Post #21 12/11/07 12:35:24PM
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KYGUY07
In Full Mount
Career record: 178-87
Season: 27-13 (#1134)
Location: KY
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Posted by postman
I know you will say Shogun but that wasn't the real Shogun we all know that. Before that Hector Ramirez. He has lost to Jardine and Tito in the UFC he has beat Bonnar 2 times, and holds wins over Elvis Sinosic and Bill Mahood. Not exactly the resume of a guy on the top of the food chain. Why is it so important for the coaches to fight at the end of the season? It seems to me to be just another angle for Dana to keep his 205 champ on top as long as he can.
Who can you really say deserves a shot more than forrest
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Post #22 12/11/07 1:31:09PM
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atlas777
Standup Guy
Career record: 91-65
Season: 15-19 (#4502)
Location: New York
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If everyone is so concerned about giving Keith Jardine a title shot you have to look into it yes he beat forrest and yes he beat Chuck but in between those he got knocked out by a new comer in the UFC an unexperienced new comer a guy who probably at best is in the top 25 maybe in Houston Alexander yes Forrest Griffin lost to Keith Jardine. Jardine is a solid competitor and its Forrest's only loss since he got robbed in the tito fight the difference between them both is forrest got knocked out by a really good fighter in jardine and redeemed himself against shogun who was highly regarded by many people as one of the best in the world keith got knocked out by a guy who had is octogon debut and in less then a 1:30 Forrest was winning his fight against Jardine and at no point was Jardine ever winning his fight against alexander, Jardine redeemed himself with a win over chuck a fighter who also got knocked out in about a 1:30 or so and besides you say who has Forrest ever beat besides forrest and chuck who has jardine ever beat couldnt even get the decision over bonnar, forrest IMO deserves the title shot way more than Jardine.
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Post #23 12/11/07 1:41:11PM
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gsquat
Belt Contender
Career record: 101-67
Season: 27-13 (#349)
Location: TC, MI
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Posted by KYGUY07
Posted by postman
I know you will say Shogun but that wasn't the real Shogun we all know that. Before that Hector Ramirez. He has lost to Jardine and Tito in the UFC he has beat Bonnar 2 times, and holds wins over Elvis Sinosic and Bill Mahood. Not exactly the resume of a guy on the top of the food chain. Why is it so important for the coaches to fight at the end of the season? It seems to me to be just another angle for Dana to keep his 205 champ on top as long as he can.
Who can you really say deserves a shot more than forrest
See Avatar for answer. 0 losses. several wins. many good opponents
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Post #24 12/11/07 2:11:37PM
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bezun
Banned
Career record: 76-57
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Tigard/Ottawa
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Soko and machida are fighting I think that the winner of that should get Forrest for a title shot. I know most of you don't put any stock in Pride fights but Wandy beat Page twice BAD, Page should want him out of the gate to avenge his losses. Soko beat lil nog and Arona if he beats Machida thats three if not top ten then top fifteen fighters in a row. It is funny to me that no one puts any stock into fights from Pride but you all jump to say he beat Shogun so he should get a shot.
THATS THE POINT! Rampage got beat really bad by Wandy, why would he push to have a fight with him? Rampage may not fair well against wandy again and imo I'm not sure why the UFC would want Wandy as their 'cover boy'?
That being said, I would love to see rampage wandy 3 just for the shear brutality that wandy would unlease. If his elbows are as good as his knees, we may see another reighn at the top.
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Post #25 12/11/07 2:56:33PM
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TimW001
In Full Mount
Career record: 147-99
Season: 24-6 (#2860)
Location: Canada BC
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Posted by AchillesHeel
This is essentially what I was thinking. I think the only person you could argue has earned a title shot over Griffin is Jardine, and that's a coin-flip in my mind.
It's so crazy. Jardine beat Forrest, the jardine lost to Houston, then Houston lost to Thiago. Then Forrest Beat Shogun then gets title shot.
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Post #26 12/11/07 3:27:42PM
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CwB
Standup Guy
Career record: 117-83
Season: 9-6 (#6492)
Location: las vegas
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agreed it is a coin flip between forrest and jardine.
BUT...
i belive griffin is a better fighter then jardine, at least has sharper skills, before getting knocked to jardine forest was owning that fight.
i believe griffin beat a better oponent then jardine to deserve a shot. i believe shogun is harder to defeat then liddell (and thats coming from a liddell fan)
i believe that jardine aslmost lost that fight to chuck, what saved him was dropping chuck in the second round. R1. chuck won R2. chuck was winning untill being dropped(and if you ignore that i think chuck won the round) R3. jardine owned. i am NOT SAYING chuck was robbed but forest finished his fight jardine got a split decision.
I dont believe forest beat tito but he held his own in the 2 and 3 round which is more impressive then anything jardine had ever done before his wins over forest and chuck.
I believe that forrest vs rampage will sell more pay per views then rampage vs jardine.
i believe F vs R will be more exciting the R vs J
and i like forest more then i like jardine and no matter who you put in front of rampage i see rampage beating both jardine and forrest.
thats why i believe forest deserves a title shot over jardine
Last edited 12/11/07 4:54PM by cwb
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #27 12/11/07 4:50:33PM
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Pitbull09
MMA Sensei
Career record: 118-58
Season: 27-12 (#1170)
Location: PA
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The truth is no one in that division is really worth of the title which means, the guy who has the last win against the best (or at least thought to be) fighter (shogun) gets a title shot. Forrest was in the best spot to since he was on Tuf 1 and they wanted a coach.
-Houston lost to Thiago Silva
-Thiago Silva needs maybe two more fights
-Chuck Liddel lost his last to and one was to the champ
-Keith Jardine is always having up and downs and it feels like his win over Chuck was more Chuck losing than him winning
- Shogun was going to get a shot if he beat forrest so it can kinda justify Forrests shot.
- Bisping just lost to Evans and didnt do to great against Hamil
- Evans should have lost to Tito in his fight, and then beat Bisping in a very disappointing fight.
No one deserves a shot right now and the only guy you can see something positive out of all this is Forrest (a huge underdog) submitting Shogun
Right now, the division is a mess and I think this was the best move for Dana White.
If Wanderlei Silva wins against Chuck, I'm pretty sure Dana will let him get a shot. Hes imo the best contender in the division. Also Thiago could get a shot but it would surprise me if he keeps winning.
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Post #28 12/11/07 5:40:41PM
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Djbb
Standup Guy
Career record: 24-23
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location: Center Barnstead, NH
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Why is Forrest Griffin getting a title shot?
Quinton Jackson:
Loss - Mauricio Rua - TKO (Strikes) - PRIDE Total Elimination 2005
Forrest Griffin:
Win - Mauricio Rua - Submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 76: Knockout
*carlos mencia voice* dee dee dee!
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Post #29 12/11/07 5:57:14PM
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Check my profile pic
Career record: 149-80
Season: 16-9 (#4678)
Location: Regina SK
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I think Quinton's cryptonite is the tai clinch, Wand, Shogun and Ninja all beat him up in the tai clinch, and all won or should have won(rampage even tried to give his trophy to ninja), and I don't think Forrest can get him in the tai clinch and utilize it. As people love to say, styles make fights and while this will be a crowd pleaser it IMO will end with Forrest being TKO'd.
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"Fall down 7 times, get up 8" - Ancient Chinese proverb.
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Post #30 12/11/07 7:15:43PM
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