Quinton Jackson vs Forrest Griffin |
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JWils
Standup Guy
Career record: 128-66
Season: 15-6 (#490)
Location: Southern Illinois
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Posted by ics39
The two guys above me are absolutely right! Forrest was the better fighter THAT NIGHT. I'm NOT MAKING EXCUSES, we all saw the fight and saw him get his ass kicked. He deserved to get his ass kicked for coming in looking like that. But once again, it makes no sense to assume Forrest can beat the Shogun that was #1, which is my point! Just because Shogun looked like absolute crap, doesn't mean Forrest is any better then before that fight.
I'm getting sick of people saying, "well Forrest beat Shogun, so..." The circumstances of the fight are everything. If they weren't, everyone would be praising Filho on how awesome he is, still being undefeated....we all know how this is going.
This is not intelligent reasoning. Forrest might has well have beat a can that night, so there is no reason to elevate him to godlike status. Top fighter respect is earned by consistently beating top fighters, not eeking out decisions and losing to guys like Jardine.
Personally, I came away with that fight very impressed with Griffin's ground game. I thought he was winning the fight before Shogun gassed. Griffin proved to me that night that he can hang with anyone in the world. I feel that way because I think that Shogun is one of the best and Griffin soundly beat him. Your opinion is that Shogun lost because of Shogun... My opinion is that Shogun lost because of Griffin's improvement. Would Griffin beat Shogun everytime out? No, but I don't think Shogun would dominate a long series either.
Now, as for elevating Griffin to "godlike status", I know that I have not done that. I would argue that if anyone was elevated to "godlike status" it was Shogun before that fight.
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Post #31 12/14/07 11:37:29AM
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Pitbull09
MMA Sensei
Career record: 106-51
Season: 15-5 (#972)
Location: PA
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I like Forrest but Rampage is on a whole other level.
I see it Rampage, possibly ending it in the first round
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Post #32 12/14/07 12:04:45PM
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ics39
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 4-2
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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Posted by JWils
Personally, I came away with that fight very impressed with Griffin's ground game. I thought he was winning the fight before Shogun gassed. Griffin proved to me that night that he can hang with anyone in the world. I feel that way because I think that Shogun is one of the best and Griffin soundly beat him. Your opinion is that Shogun lost because of Shogun... My opinion is that Shogun lost because of Griffin's improvement. Would Griffin beat Shogun everytime out? No, but I don't think Shogun would dominate a long series either.
Now, as for elevating Griffin to "godlike status", I know that I have not done that. I would argue that if anyone was elevated to "godlike status" it was Shogun before that fight.
You say you thought Griffin was winning the fight before he gassed? I thought it was pretty even, with Shogun on top more, but regardless Shogun (because of injury, not focused, whatever doesn't matter) did not fight like he usually fights even before he gassed. He was slow, sluggish, and fought on an indredibly lower level then he usually does. Since when does Shogun go for immediate takedowns? Shogun likes to strike, but goes for takedowns usually only when he is losing in standup (I have never elevated Shogun to "godlike status", and I think no one part of his game is that great, its his well-roundness that gives him the edge against everyone). When did we see his crisp, fast, striking against Griffin? Yeah...never. Where was the clinch? Horrible takedown attempts too. Simply put Shogun was nowhere near his usual game, and Forrest is no can, don't get me wrong, but any professional fighter that's not a can could have beat Shogun that night.
We'll see what happens in the inevitable rematch.
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Post #33 12/14/07 1:03:00PM
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JWils
Standup Guy
Career record: 128-66
Season: 15-6 (#490)
Location: Southern Illinois
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Posted by ics39
Posted by JWils
Personally, I came away with that fight very impressed with Griffin's ground game. I thought he was winning the fight before Shogun gassed. Griffin proved to me that night that he can hang with anyone in the world. I feel that way because I think that Shogun is one of the best and Griffin soundly beat him. Your opinion is that Shogun lost because of Shogun... My opinion is that Shogun lost because of Griffin's improvement. Would Griffin beat Shogun everytime out? No, but I don't think Shogun would dominate a long series either.
Now, as for elevating Griffin to "godlike status", I know that I have not done that. I would argue that if anyone was elevated to "godlike status" it was Shogun before that fight.
You say you thought Griffin was winning the fight before he gassed? I thought it was pretty even, with Shogun on top more, but regardless Shogun (because of injury, not focused, whatever doesn't matter) did not fight like he usually fights even before he gassed. He was slow, sluggish, and fought on an indredibly lower level then he usually does. Since when does Shogun go for immediate takedowns? Shogun likes to strike, but goes for takedowns usually only when he is losing in standup (I have never elevated Shogun to "godlike status", and I think no one part of his game is that great, its his well-roundness that gives him the edge against everyone). When did we see his crisp, fast, striking against Griffin? Yeah...never. Where was the clinch? Horrible takedown attempts too. Simply put Shogun was nowhere near his usual game, and Forrest is no can, don't get me wrong, but any professional fighter that's not a can could have beat Shogun that night.
We'll see what happens in the inevitable rematch.
Fair enough man. We got off topic anyway. We'll continue our discussion when they fight again... 
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Post #34 12/14/07 2:53:15PM
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Boo_Radley21
MMA Sensei
Career record: 107-74
Season: 14-7 (#2800)
Location:
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I was in no way saying that Forrest will beat Rampage because he beat Shogun. He was the better fighter that night. If Shogun was underestimating Forrest and thinking he could beat him at less than 100% that's not a professional thing to do as a fighter. And it's not just Shogun that did it, look at St. Pierre. All I was saying is that it's Shoguns fault for overlooking him, and going ahead when is injury is that bad. Maybe it is harder than it sounds to pull out with an injury, but don't you think he would have wanted to be healthy for his debut to put on a good show rather than take a beating from a fighter a lot of people thought Shogun was going to walk through?
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Post #35 12/15/07 12:38:30PM
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quezocrema0032
Standup Guy
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Career record: 130-62
Season: 16-5 (#457)
Location: YO NY
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Posted by ics39
Wow, a lot of people giving credit to Forrest for beating a Rua with no cardio! Are you all saying its the same as beating Shogun WITH cardio? This is laughable. Forrest has no shot against an in shape Shogun or an in shape Rampage.
But if Rampage comes in with no cardio for whatever reason, Forrest probably would win.
Anybody could have subbed Shogun by that point in the fight, he couldn't even breathe much less move normally. One loss does not negate the fact that he has dominated more top fighters in his division then any other fighter.
The best Shogun/Rampage beats the best Forrest 10/10.
lmfao ... what a groupie ... so am guessing shogun was tired and gassed before he stepped into the octagon ? because forrest won rounds 1 and 2 .. forrest was to strong and a better wrestler then rua ... i think rampage will bea tuffer fight then shogun .. but forrest will pull it out he has 2 keep rampage guessing when he expects a take down he fires off shots when he expects him 2 stand he shoots ... i say forrest wins 49 to 46 UD
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Post #36 12/26/07 1:01:12AM
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Graveyard Mod
Career record: 186-107
Season: 16-5 (#717)
Location: Santa Fe, TX
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Posted by ics39
.... Top fighter respect is earned by consistently beating top fighters, not eeking out decisions and losing to guys like Jardine.
Ah man, why the hate on Jardine? Dude is an excellent fighter with quality wins over Liddell, Griffin and Gouveia. Downplaying Jardine is not cool.
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Post #37 12/26/07 1:27:27AM
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Pinball
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 61-48
Season: 5-5 (#5834)
Location: Missouri
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Haha. Yeah Jardine looked real good when Alexander laid him out.
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Post #38 12/26/07 11:51:47AM
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Graveyard Mod
Career record: 186-107
Season: 16-5 (#717)
Location: Santa Fe, TX
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Posted by Pinball
Haha. Yeah Jardine looked real good when Alexander laid him out.
Imagine that, a mixed martial artist with a loss... go figure.
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Post #39 12/26/07 5:51:45PM
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Pinball
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 61-48
Season: 5-5 (#5834)
Location: Missouri
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I just think a loss like that weighs just as much on his record(maybe more) as those wins u listed,I was surprised by the outcome of his fight with Liddell and with Alex.
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Post #40 12/27/07 12:07:50PM
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nothing against Forrest,I like him and all, but this is going to be a very easy fight for Jackson
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Post #41 12/30/07 10:52:53PM
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Flip
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 143-99
Season: 11-7 (#3558)
Location:
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Posted by chris_leben_rules
nothing against Forrest,I like him and all, but this is going to be a very easy fight for Jackson
I like how you guys sit here and say b/s like this. No fight in the UFC is an easy fight. Everyone on there are world class athletes and they are there because they are the best in the world. Some people already started this crap talking when Griffin was scheduled to fight Shogun and look what happened, Forrest dominated him. I think it would be a good fight and I can't wait to see it.
Last edited 12/31/07 6:36AM by flip
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #42 12/31/07 6:35:16AM
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evilpimp
MMA Regular
Career record: 83-52
Season: 9-12 (#3318)
Location: miami fl
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this is a no brainer, rampage round 1 ko, even though i like griffin but his ass would get handed to him by rampage
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Post #43 12/31/07 10:46:59PM
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theman209
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 120-73
Season: 14-7 (#271)
Location: Lille, France via Dallas, TX
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Rampage should indeed win but I wouldn't be surprised if Forrest pulled another Shogun on us. It'd be nice to see him as the first TUF guy to be champ (I don't count TUF4 'cause those guys already fought in the UFC) but I don't think it'll happen. I could see it happening but I don't think it will
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Post #44 1/1/08 8:36:09AM
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DoctorKilljoy
Banned
Career record: 19-6
Season: 0-0 (#-)
Location:
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despite how highly everyone thinks of forrest, i just dont like how he gets a title shot because hes popular, i mean what are we in high school? the title shot belongs to thiago, rashad, or lyoto
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Post #45 1/1/08 6:37:03PM
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