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JunCTion

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can anyone with fighting experience tell me why karate moves aren't used that often. are they not effective or is it just good for movies

Post #1   2/7/07 5:52:33PM   

Svartorm

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Well, what do you consider a karate move? Technically almost every submission and kick in MMA could be considered a karate move.

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Post #2   2/7/07 5:58:48PM   

JunCTion

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i'm not sure
flying front kicks to the chest
flying round house kicks to the side of the head
multiple kicks in succession
spinning back kicks ( i guess gsp uses them)
shonies spinning back fist
leg sweeps
strikes to the chest when in the mount

Post #3   2/7/07 6:08:02PM   

Tha1

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i've spent most of my childhood and teen years involved in karate. biggest waste of money and time in my life. i've learned more in the first 3 months of training mma than the 10+yrs i did karate.

Post #4   2/7/07 6:21:56PM   

JunCTion

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i guess thats what i was wondering. is karate for defense as opposed to offense. im assuming then that karate would only work against karate

Post #5   2/7/07 6:27:30PM   

Svartorm

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The problem with any "flying" move is that they're telegraphed and its a commited movement. There are circumstances where they'd work, but they're few and far between.

As for multiple kicks, people will occasionally throw rapid leg kicks if their opponent is slow, but its hard to string kicks together meaningfully. Thats more of a point-based karate thing than real combat thing, as if you're throwing 5 front leg roundhouse kicks in a row, they're not going to hit harder than a punch and leave you off-balance.


Spinning back kicks and backfists are used pretty effectively, but the nature of the movement is that of surprise, so throwing them all the time would defeat the purpose. Plus turning your back on an opponent is generally not a good idea.

In my experience, leg sweeps don't work. Leg trips from a clinch certainly do, but in a fight where both guys are actively moving, bouncing up and down, switching leads, etc its more trouble than its worth to attempt a foot sweep or something more drastic. Plus, if you screw up you're just as likely to hit the ground as the guy you're trying to sweep.

As for striking to the body in mount or guard, thats actually a pet peeve of mine. People should really work that kind of striking more, as it adds to the fatigue factor in later rounds and slows the opponent down. Plus, its much easier to land a serious power shot to the body than to the head, so you're getting a better return on the energy you're investing.

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Post #6   2/7/07 6:32:39PM   

Svartorm

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Posted by JunCTion

i guess thats what i was wondering. is karate for defense as opposed to offense. im assuming then that karate would only work against karate



Traditional karate *can* work if you find a decent school, but the problem is is that most Traditional karate schools are not meant to train people to fight or defend themselves. My brother runs a school, and has a saying "Karate schools are half daycare and half yuppy fantasy camp". Most of a karate schools business comes from teaching children, and most adults that go are there for self-esteem issues. Thats not everyone of course, but if you look at the majority of adult karate students, they're typically the overweight nerd population who want to feel powerful and build self-confidence.

Theres a lot of psychology that I won't get into here, but in short, yes karate can work offensively and defensively, but not the way its usually taught.

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Post #7   2/7/07 6:37:22PM   

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Posted by Tha1

i've spent most of my childhood and teen years involved in karate. biggest waste of money and time in my life. i've learned more in the first 3 months of training mma than the 10+yrs i did karate.



I'm on that boat also. I spent 5 yrs doing Tang Soo Do learn alittle. Started watching MMA and then started training MMA and I've learn so much more practical moves than anything karate will teach you.

Post #8   2/7/07 6:47:27PM   

JunCTion

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svartorm you rock and Nutthuggers Suck good. you could be my mma teacher. its obvious im a big fan of mma but i couldn't beat up a little girl. so i'm learning as i go.

Post #9   2/7/07 7:01:02PM   

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karate is almost a joke now adays, especially in america which is full with mcdojos...karate is more of a hypothetical art than a real life fighting style art like boxing or kickboxing. I'm not saying Karate is completely worthless, but if it was up to me, I'd rather invest my time in thai boxing.

Post #10   2/7/07 8:25:45PM   

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Karate, no matter what style you are speaking of, is full of both useful and useless technique. If you ask a Karate practicioner or any other traditional martial artist for that matter, why you don't see their art in MMA, usually you will recieve an answer like, "our techniques are too vicious for competition", or "we're taught not to use our skills unless necessary". Which is their way of implying that you need specialized training to kick a guy in the nuts or gouge his eyes out.
For the most part, any techniques you see in the ring or cage can ge found in other TMA's. It is for the most part the training methodology that makes it ineffective for competition. However, this does not mean that they are entirely unpractical. It is a great way to get a knowledge base of self defense. There are also the other benefits like discipline, cultural learning, and yada yada. I spent many years training traditional martial arts including a brand of Karate. It wasn't until I took up Judo in the army that I decided to switch training methods. One of my judo coaches taught me about MMA and after I left the army I joined a gym and started learning the ground game. I most likely will go back to a TMA eventually, just because of the hold it has on my. But for a competition like the UFC or Pride, a MMA gym is the way to go.

Post #11   2/7/07 10:03:58PM   

jmoooooo

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a lot of fighters in mma now have a karate background. GSP has a background in Kyokushin karate. The "Mcdojos" as it was put have provided a ton of kids with that kind of background. Even if none of the moves translate directly to mma, it still gives kids a good foundation in part of the training aspect, and part of the technical aspect. Strength/balance/flexibility/how to properly punch and kick are all things that are taught, and still carryover. so while GSP might not be considered a karate fighter, when he did start training in other areas he had a lot of the basics down already, which im sure helped him progress at a much faster rate.

Post #12   2/7/07 11:30:54PM   

Tha1

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karate is a model T ford, mma is a lambo. evolution in fighting imo, survival of the fittest sort of thing. judo and muay thai are "traditional" martial arts that have survived because they share a common aspect with "non-traditional" martial arts (wrestling, boxing, etc.) which is sparring. drilling a technique and then hitting it in sparring against a resisting opponent. all of thes martial arts have been around for ages, wrestling is one of the oldest, and the ones that have survived are the ones that practice free sparring.

Post #13   2/8/07 8:30:10AM   

pv3Hpv3p

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Posted by jmoooooo

a lot of fighters in mma now have a karate background. GSP has a background in Kyokushin karate. The "Mcdojos" as it was put have provided a ton of kids with that kind of background. Even if none of the moves translate directly to mma, it still gives kids a good foundation in part of the training aspect, and part of the technical aspect. Strength/balance/flexibility/how to properly punch and kick are all things that are taught, and still carryover. so while GSP might not be considered a karate fighter, when he did start training in other areas he had a lot of the basics down already, which im sure helped him progress at a much faster rate.



I believe Machida is/was also a karate practitioner... In his case, you could argue that added depth to his striking game...

Post #14   2/8/07 12:22:13PM   

Tha1

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i dont agree. a lot of these guys are very athletic at heart, karate being a part of their training is just coincidence.


Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by jmoooooo

a lot of fighters in mma now have a karate background. GSP has a background in Kyokushin karate. The "Mcdojos" as it was put have provided a ton of kids with that kind of background. Even if none of the moves translate directly to mma, it still gives kids a good foundation in part of the training aspect, and part of the technical aspect. Strength/balance/flexibility/how to properly punch and kick are all things that are taught, and still carryover. so while GSP might not be considered a karate fighter, when he did start training in other areas he had a lot of the basics down already, which im sure helped him progress at a much faster rate.



I believe Machida is/was also a karate practitioner... In his case, you could argue that added depth to his striking game...

Post #15   2/8/07 1:55:09PM   
 
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