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Fedor: The way it is

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Jujiden

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And the ball starts rolling. Reports are coming in like crazy that Couture is walking out on UFC because they failed to sign Fedor. IF Couture has plans to seek out a one fight deal w/ Fedor you can bet he'll get it at M-1, especially since they want to put their name on the map.

Props to Cmill and props to Rush for seeing this happening also.

We hate to say we told you so....but....we told you so.

Post #16   10/11/07 3:33:43PM   

TNunley

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Posted by Jujiden
We hate to say we told you so....but....we told you so.



Told me what? That Randy wants to retire?? Yeah, you got me there... I remember your words exactly....

"Fedor doesn't want to fight Randy, so Randy is gonna retire!"

Man, I guess I missed that post.

Post #17   10/11/07 3:39:31PM   

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Nuthug all day on Randy if you want, heck, I will too, but business is business and if Randy continues to show the heart he has exemplified in his career, he WILL chase Fedor and others will follow.

Keep smilin'!

Post #18   10/11/07 3:44:35PM   

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Posted by TNunley

Also you should consider... a very large majority of the UFC's fan base probably doesn't watch anything other than the UFC. Why would they stop watching the UFC to watch some organization that houses a fighter who wasn't willing to fight the top competition in the UFC? PERHAPS if Fedor HAD come to the UFC, and if by some miracle pulled off a decisive victory against Couture... then I could see it as a possibility if Fedor went to another organization that they could pull some more fans. But for anyone who is like me, I definitely won't be watching M-1 just because I don't want to support a fighter not willing to give his MMA fans what they want. If Fedor doesn't want to give his fans what they want... why should we follow him around like he's a god?

Again, flame all you want... talk smack about the UFC all you want... but the guys who hate the UFC and blame the UFC for Fedor's decision to go somewhere else will probably be the only ones still talking about Fedor when the dust settles.




IF UFC fans only watch the UFC then they are missing out on the wealth of MMA talent outside the UFC. That is their loss and not the problem of the fighters themselves.

So if a fighter doesn't do what the fans want then he should get shunned? If Randy decides to retire (again) that will be what he thinks is in his best interest and not a decision made to snub the fans.

I for one am not blaming the UFC for not signing Fedor. It was Fedor's decision not to sign and I think that he did what was in his best interest and I am not going to pretend that I know what that is.

Post #19   10/11/07 3:47:38PM   

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Posted by Rush
IF UFC fans only watch the UFC then they are missing out on the wealth of MMA talent outside the UFC. That is their loss and not the problem of the fighters themselves.


Very true... they are missing out. My point on that was because someone said the UFC was going to go out of business because Fedor isn't fighting there.

Posted by Rush
So if a fighter doesn't do what the fans want then he should get shunned? If Randy decides to retire (again) that will be what he thinks is in his best interest and not a decision made to snub the fans.


I'm just saying I won't be supporting M-1, besides Couture retiring is different than Fedor not wanting to fight Randy. Randy is retiring supposadly because he can't fight Fedor. Fedor obviously isn't concerned with fighting top competition... so for me... I will not support him.

Posted by Rush
I for one am not blaming the UFC for not signing Fedor. It was Fedor's decision not to sign and I think that he did what was in his best interest and I am not going to pretend that I know what that is.


Well said.

Post #20   10/11/07 4:11:07PM   

nate22

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I don't understand why people think Fedor should do what we want him to do for our personal viewing pleasure. He is his own man, running his own life, whatever decisions he makes are entirely up to himself and he does not owe a single one of us an explanation.

Criticizing the man on the basis of his decisions is ridiculous, he has proved numerous times he is the best HW in the world. There are simply no arguments that are worthy of my time of day to prove otherwise.

Granted if he doesn't fight decent HW's in the nearby future, we will have to replace him at the top of the rankings, this is inevitable, but we need somebody to step up and get enough wins to warrant this placement. This simply has not happened yet. The Randy argument is absolutley shocking and you should be ashamed of yourself if you think Randy is anywhere close to knocking Fedor of his perch yet.

Saying that Randy's two wins away from this against top competition, will it happen now? Probably not. Until then we must wait until somebody has the credentials to move up the rankings, yet the inconsistency in the majority of fighters is making this pretty difficult and rankings almost impossible anyhow.

Post #21   10/12/07 8:23:26AM   

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Posted by nate22

I don't understand why people think Fedor should do what we want him to do for our personal viewing pleasure. He is his own man, running his own life, whatever decisions he makes are entirely up to himself and he does not owe a single one of us an explanation.


Consider for a moment that Fedor had fought his entire career behind closed doors... with no one in the stands... with no one buying the ppv's. Fedor has negotiation power because of the amount of fans he has/had... Fedor has the wealth he has because of the fans he has/had... Fedor owes his fans for his popularity, fame, and fortune. He is where he is due to 50% his fans and 50% his talent. He could not have gotten where he was without talent, in the same respect he could not have gotten where he was without fans. If he gives no care to what his fans want and think... I'm certain I'm not alone in the way of thinking, "If he doesn't give a s*** about us, why should we give a s*** about him?"

Posted by nate22
Criticizing the man on the basis of his decisions is ridiculous, he has proved numerous times he is the best HW in the world. There are simply no arguments that are worthy of my time of day to prove otherwise.


How has he proved "numerous times" he is the best HW in the world? Some of the guys he has mopped the floor with have done far less than satisfactory against UFC talent. If he isn't willing to prove he's the best, then what argument do you have that he IS the best? You saying he has destroyed many opponents recently is no different than someone saying his opponents were probably not top fighters in the entire MMA world.

Posted by nate22
Granted if he doesn't fight decent HW's in the nearby future, we will have to replace him at the top of the rankings, this is inevitable, but we need somebody to step up and get enough wins to warrant this placement. This simply has not happened yet. The Randy argument is absolutley shocking and you should be ashamed of yourself if you think Randy is anywhere close to knocking Fedor of his perch yet.


Why? Randy was the #1 HW in an organization that has top fighters that have defeated the very same guys that Fedor has defeated. Randy was willing and ready to fight Fedor... If Fedor was ready and willing, then he would have signed. If Fedor was the HW champ in the UFC and hadn't taken the fight against Randy, what would happen? He would be stripped of his belt, and disregarded as #1. What difference does it make if he was signed or not if he decided not to fight Randy? If Fedor had called Randy out to a fight, and Randy declined to fight him I would be ashamed of Randy, and consider him not to be #1 as well. Fact of the matter is, Randy called out Fedor, and Fedor wasn't willing to fight him. You can't sit here and tell me that if Fedor would have said to Dana... "I'll give you one fight, I want Randy Couture, and then I want to go to a different organization" that Dana would have said.. "Uh, No!" Go to UFC.com and read Dana's remarks about it... he wanted to sign Fedor so he could fight Randy, and if that was the only way he could get Fedor to fight Randy.... I'm 100% certain to think Dana would be smart enough to take it.

Post #22   10/12/07 9:33:11AM   

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Posted by TNunley


Posted by nate22

I don't understand why people think Fedor should do what we want him to do for our personal viewing pleasure. He is his own man, running his own life, whatever decisions he makes are entirely up to himself and he does not owe a single one of us an explanation.


Consider for a moment that Fedor had fought his entire career behind closed doors... with no one in the stands... with no one buying the ppv's. Fedor has negotiation power because of the amount of fans he has/had... Fedor has the wealth he has because of the fans he has/had... Fedor owes his fans for his popularity, fame, and fortune. He is where he is due to 50% his fans and 50% his talent. He could not have gotten where he was without talent, in the same respect he could not have gotten where he was without fans. If he gives no care to what his fans want and think... I'm certain I'm not alone in the way of thinking, "If he doesn't give a s*** about us, why should we give a s*** about him?"



This right here tells me you have no idea what your talking about, Pride had more people watching live then the UFC does, ppv no but live yeeeep. He owes Japanese fans for his fame, alot of UFC fans don't know who he is, don't give a crap about him he's got alot of money and a few other continent's that worship him.

Last edited 10/12/07 9:44AM server time by cmill21
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Post #23   10/12/07 9:42:54AM   

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Posted by cmill21
This right here tells me you have no idea what your talking about, Pride had more people watching live then the UFC does, ppv no but live yeeeep. He owes Japanese fans for his fame, alot of UFC fans don't know who he is, don't give a crap about him he's got alot of money and a few other continent's that worship him.



Can you name the last UFC event that didn't sell out? So Pride had a few extra chairs in their stadium than the UFC did... what difference does it make? Ultimately they still had more people watching. CMill, sometimes I just don't understand how you think some of the things you say makes any sense.

He owes Japanese fans for his fame? Wow, that's brilliant... I guess you got me there... since the people in Japan loved him, that's why so many people in the USA were his fans. I honestly don't know how to completely respond to that... did you think about that before you typed it? So no one that wasn't Japanese bought a PPV, is that what you're really saying?

To say that a lot of UFC fans don't know who he is just makes me think that maybe YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. I'm a UFC fan sure... I know exactly who he is... I've seen his fights, and I'm certain that there are many people who love the UFC that know exactly who he is... you are probably right though in saying that many of us don't give a crap about him anymore.

Post #24   10/12/07 9:56:25AM   

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Posted by TNunley


Posted by cmill21
This right here tells me you have no idea what your talking about, Pride had more people watching live then the UFC does, ppv no but live yeeeep. He owes Japanese fans for his fame, alot of UFC fans don't know who he is, don't give a crap about him he's got alot of money and a few other continent's that worship him.



Can you name the last UFC event that didn't sell out? So Pride had a few extra chairs in their stadium than the UFC did... what difference does it make? Ultimately they still had more people watching. CMill, sometimes I just don't understand how you think some of the things you say makes any sense.

He owes Japanese fans for his fame? Wow, that's brilliant... I guess you got me there... since the people in Japan loved him, that's why so many people in the USA were his fans. I honestly don't know how to completely respond to that... did you think about that before you typed it? So no one that wasn't Japanese bought a PPV, is that what you're really saying?

To say that a lot of UFC fans don't know who he is just makes me think that maybe YOU have no idea what YOU are talking about. I'm a UFC fan sure... I know exactly who he is... I've seen his fights, and I'm certain that there are many people who love the UFC that know exactly who he is... you are probably right though in saying that many of us don't give a crap about him anymore.



He doesn't owe the fans for his fame. He got his fame from his performances against the then top HW fighters in the world (there's no argument against this, they were, at the time). He has never been a fighter to promote himself alot or speak disrespectfully or attempt to hype fights with utter bullshit like the majority of UFC stars.

I'm not responding anymore than this to your previous post because I simply think it's a load of rubbish. As with cmill, I also don't really think you know what you're talking about. I have no allegiance with any organisation but without even saying it directly it's plain obvious where yours lie and you are making a fool out of yourself, in my opinion in the process because your bias exposes your complete lack of knowledge regarding anything to do with the subject.

Post #25   10/12/07 11:18:53AM   

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I think Fedor and Randy both are feed up with the tatics the UFC is trying to do. They are trying to monopolize the best fighters in the world saying if you dont come here you will never be regarded as #1, which for the most part is true.
The bad part is the fact that they are low balling the fighters pay wise by enticing them to come to their organization and locking them in to a exculsive contract . So fighters have to look at it 2 ways do I want to be the best in world and please the fans or do I want to make as much money as i can so that if something were to happen to them in the next fight their family would be taken care of.
I think that they are in a very dangerous sport and they should make as much money as they can while they can, because with few exceptions you are not going to be in this sport for long so you better get what you can out of it while you can.

I wish it could be both of those things get paid truck loads and have the best fighters in the world fight each other

Post #26   10/12/07 11:34:06AM   

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Posted by nate22

He doesn't owe the fans for his fame. He got his fame from his performances against the then top HW fighters in the world (there's no argument against this, they were, at the time). He has never been a fighter to promote himself alot or speak disrespectfully or attempt to hype fights with utter bullshit like the majority of UFC stars.


I think I understand what you're trying to say, but still you are doing it with bias and opinion. There is no possible way of knowing who the best HWs in the world were prior to being able to see them fight one another. So yes, there is an argument... you may feel this way, but I do not. So to me he was never capable of saying he is the "best"... but we'll never know, and this argument could go on forever. So I will just agree to disagree with you on that.

I do however think your first sentence about him not owing his fans for his fame is somewhat innacurate. Yes, he could not have competed at the top of Pride without his abilities. But to say that without fans he would still be famous is ludicrous... If he didn't have fans... yes he would probably still be as talented... but he would in no way be famous. That's exactly what being famous is... having a buzz about you... People talking about you... knowing who you are. People paying money to watch you fight... having marketability... Do you really think he would have anywhere near the money he does if people weren't buying ppv's more often when he was fighting in them?

Post #27   10/12/07 11:34:55AM   

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Posted by thepunisher

I think Fedor and Randy both are feed up with the tatics the UFC is trying to do. They are trying to monopolize the best fighters in the world saying if you dont come here you will never be regarded as #1, which for the most part is true.
The bad part is the fact that they are low balling the fighters pay wise by enticing them to come to their organization and locking them in to a exculsive contract . So fighters have to look at it 2 ways do I want to be the best in world and please the fans or do I want to make as much money as i can so that if something were to happen to them in the next fight their family would be taken care of.
I think that they are in a very dangerous sport and they should make as much money as they can while they can, because with few exceptions you are not going to be in this sport for long so you better get what you can out of it while you can.

I wish it could be both of those things get paid truck loads and have the best fighters in the world fight each other



I think you're spot on... then again... his management even said the UFC was offering him the most money. So it would be difficult to say that he went to M-1 specifically for money. Just because some ignoramous here might say that they are giving him $10 million per fight does NOT make it true.

Post #28   10/12/07 11:36:37AM   

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I agree about the money but I think it wasn't so much the money as it was Fedor wanting his guys from his team to get a shot in the UFC which is honorable and him wanting to compete in Sambo tournys. I don't think Dana was budging on the Sambo which he is an ambassador for the sport in his country

Post #29   10/12/07 11:43:22AM   

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Posted by TNunley


Posted by nate22

He doesn't owe the fans for his fame. He got his fame from his performances against the then top HW fighters in the world (there's no argument against this, they were, at the time). He has never been a fighter to promote himself alot or speak disrespectfully or attempt to hype fights with utter bullshit like the majority of UFC stars.


I think I understand what you're trying to say, but still you are doing it with bias and opinion. There is no possible way of knowing who the best HWs in the world were prior to being able to see them fight one another. So yes, there is an argument... you may feel this way, but I do not. So to me he was never capable of saying he is the "best"... but we'll never know, and this argument could go on forever. So I will just agree to disagree with you on that.

I do however think your first sentence about him not owing his fans for his fame is somewhat innacurate. Yes, he could not have competed at the top of Pride without his abilities. But to say that without fans he would still be famous is ludicrous... If he didn't have fans... yes he would probably still be as talented... but he would in no way be famous. That's exactly what being famous is... having a buzz about you... People talking about you... knowing who you are. People paying money to watch you fight... having marketability... Do you really think he would have anywhere near the money he does if people weren't buying ppv's more often when he was fighting in them?



Fedors marketability is existant solely from his performances and domination and the respect he commands for being the type of person he is. For instance somebody who is not prepared to give up his beliefs for more money etc. Integrity. He has always had this from what I have seen and why now, just because he makes a decision I disagree with (joining m-1) would I begin to crticise him for it? I won't. I respect him even more for making what must of truly been a difficult decision, but he has priorities and ambitions he obviously cannot fufil whilst contracted by the UFC and has been forced to act upon by joining another organisation.

There's no possible way to know if he is the best in the world? Yes there is, it was based on 1000's of fans formulating opinions, the majority who viewed both Pride and UFC with no bias and understood simply during the era of the past few years Prides HW division was alot deeper and had more talent than that of the UFC's.

You see we HAVE to take that into account as truth because otherwise how could we ever have a ranking system that wasn't based either on a single communist type opinion or one that was generated based upon numerical figures and facts and put through some sort of computer program to work out who was best for us?

I hope that explains how we have come to the conclusion that Fedor was and still is (for the time being) the number one HW in the world.

Post #30   10/12/07 11:51:07AM   
 
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